Mitt Romney asks Rick Perry to disavow pastor; Perry says no

To: annieokie; Elsie

Tell me, if you know, are infidels allowed to go, as in just walk into a LDS TEMPLE during their services?

No, they can't. While they have rituals for the dead and other rituals in their temples -- and no, no "Gentiles" (non-Mormons) are allowed in...actually, most Mormons don't even have a temple recommend to be allowed in...as you have to be a tithing member & you don't automatically get one as even a young adult...bishops like what Mitt Romney was asks you these Qs to see if you are "fit" to enter)

The Mormons do have services open to the public not in their temples. Not that I think they're worth attending...otherwise you might go & wind up singing about a Heavenly goddess mother in the hymn "O My Father" -- and even worse, singing worship to a man, Joseph Smith, in the hymn "Praise to the Man."

41 posted on 10/12/2011 9:37:09 AM PDT by Colofornian (Anyone who can be duped by Joseph Smith can be duped by anyone.)

Romney is trying to inoculate himself against any effort to use his faith against him. At the same time, he's trying to maneuver Perry into offending evangelical voters by making some sort of statement indicating approval of Mormonism. Perry is trying to avoid the trap and use the occlusion to put a spotlight on Mitt's faith.

Good call. He knows if he can't get the broader media on his side now -- in standing together with him vs. Perry (the MSM would rather have Romney than Perry), then he would be sunk in the long haul anyway.

So if he can and his minions...evangelical lawyers like David French and dupester prof Richard Mouw & now even talk show host Catholic - addictive gambler Bill Bennett...all now in collusion to make it a "social crime" to mention Mormonism as a "cult" -- or even say anything negative at all about Mormonism, they gain in the PR battle.

So already this week, both D.C. papers and the Christian Science Monitor among others, have jumped all aboard Romney's new tolerance campaign. Of course, it's no surprise about either the Washington Times or the Christian Science Monitor.

Christians have long been calling Sun Myung Moon, who owns the Times, a cultist; and the Christian Science religion is one, too.

I think Romney has overplayed a weak hand here. He's just highlighting his vulnerability...

On the $.

and he may even offend some evangelicals by being so prickly

Well, he's not only being defensively prickly...but by now going on the offense and claiming that Christian candidates have to repudiate the religious beliefs of any and all people who endorse them, he's way over the edge of unveiling a mind that's based in reality! It, in fact, shows what a true cultist he is!

Cultists are all about controlling others. I posted this thread this a.m...
-- Former Mormon Agrees With Baptist Minister That 'Mormonism Is a 'Cult'
-- and if you look specifically @ post #13, criteria #3 (thought control) & #4 (emotional control) as to what constitutes a "cult," you'll see why Romney has this overreach.

42 posted on 10/12/2011 9:51:53 AM PDT by Colofornian (Anyone who can be duped by Joseph Smith can be duped by anyone.)

This whole debate is just stupid when it comes to politics and Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot with it. It’s dividing and to everyone except the truly hard core, it’s not that much of an issue and makes Republicans look like extremists to independant voters.

You ain't seen nothin' yet as to what the Media would do to Romney & his religion if he wins the nomination. Every rock with the letter "N" will be unturned in Mormonism's history...and believe me, there are tens of thousands of such metaphorical "rocks" in the Mormon closet!

43 posted on 10/12/2011 9:54:07 AM PDT by Colofornian (Anyone who can be duped by Joseph Smith can be duped by anyone.)

This rhetoric is like the bad old days of Catholic/Protestant sniping in the public arena.

Mitt Romney is the Mormon Al Smith. FYI, I’m a Catholic who doesn’t support Romney’s campaign.

Paul Weyrich endeavored to bridge the gap between traditionalist Catholics, Protestants, Jews in spite of theological differences.

If Jeffress represents a growing segment among politically active Evangelicals, how long before the age-old fight against the Catholic Church comes back to the fore in the political realm?

I could care less if Romney is a Mormon. As a Catholic, I have to hold my nose theologically speaking and vote for Evangelicals whose theology is just as palatable to me as Mormon theology is.

Even conservative Protestants follow what I would consider a 16th century form of liberalism.

Salvation by faith alone and sola scriptura are as pernicious in my opinion as Mormon tritheism or some of their other beliefs.

Nontheless, I don’t let that decide who I am voting for.

44 posted on 10/12/2011 10:22:39 AM PDT by rzman21

I will go one further than the good pastor Jeffress.
He kept saying although Romney is not a Christian, he was “a good, moral man”. What??? Here’s what I have to say. If Romney was so moral, why did he for years believe in a woman’s right to murder her own unborn child? Why did he pass homosexual marriage in the state of Mass when he was governor? He claims he’s “pro-life” now and says marriage should be between one man and one woman? Only a few years ago he was 100% immoral and liberal in going against the wishes of his faith. Romney is an opportunist. He says exactly what it takes to get elected. He was 100% liberal in Mass when he was running for governor there, and when he was running against Teddy Kennedy for his senate seat, where Kennedy beat him by
17 percentage points. Romney is also a gun grabber and believes in global warming. He is a fake and fraud and yes Mormanism is a cult, a cult that he belongs to. You do not add to the Holy Bible and expect to be taken seriously as a follower of Jesus Christ. You do put some character named Joe Smith on the same level with John the Baptist and expect to be taken seriously as a Christian. Every Morman I have ever met that was able to escape from Mormanism indeed said it was a cult. Their stories are all over the internet. Do the research. But getting back to Romney, just another filthy rich hypocrite that is trying to buy his way into the White House.

45 posted on 10/12/2011 10:47:14 AM PDT by Highlander1754

Jeffress isn’t Perry’s pastor. Perry is actually a member of the same Methodist church Bush was when he was governor. Jeffress is the pastor of 1st Baptist Dallas. Perry lives in Austin.

0bama on the other hand sat under the teachings of Jeremiah Wright for over 20 years.

Jeffress has said that he was speaking for himself not Perry and they are only acquaintances. This is simply a media driven tempest in a teapot.

46 posted on 10/12/2011 11:22:38 AM PDT by CajunConservative ( Leadership. It is defined by action, not position.)

Of course he’s playing the religion card. He’s wanting to redirect the conversation away from the fact that his advisers for Romneycare helped write the 0bamacare legislation and that nut John Holdren, 0bama’s science czar was Romney’s environmental adviser. The more people dig into Romney’s governorship the more they find that it was the blueprint for 0bama to get his agenda through.

48 posted on 10/12/2011 11:38:09 AM PDT by CajunConservative ( Leadership. It is defined by action, not position.)

49 posted on 10/12/2011 11:43:13 AM PDT by Fawn (No TO PERRY!!!!!!!!!)

To: CajunConservative

I thought that Perry already said that he disagreed with the minister on the issue of Romney’s religion.

50 posted on 10/12/2011 11:45:30 AM PDT by Eva

He did almost immediately after this was first published.

51 posted on 10/12/2011 11:53:12 AM PDT by CajunConservative ( Leadership. It is defined by action, not position.)

“Perry told a reporter in Iowa that he did not agree with Jeffress.”.......

“At an event in Iowa later Friday, Perry was asked if he believes Mormonism is a cult. “No,” Perry said.”....

So..., now that Perry’s response is out of the way, what do you say, we find some Mormon bishop near Romney, who has made statements about same sex marriage or homosexuality and ask Romney to disavow the Bishop’s words?

Romney is using his own religion to disavow and demean conservatives in the eyes of the voting public, not just to attack Perry. Romney knows full well that Perry has answered this question.

The problem for Romney is that he knows that conservatives will never accept Obmaneycare and Romney is actually creating an excuse to disavow conservatives.

There is now a growing Democrats for Mitt movement. They know that there is only one degree of difference between Mitt and Obama.

52 posted on 10/12/2011 11:56:32 AM PDT by Eva

To: CajunConservative

Yes, I found the quotes from CW.

“Perry told a reporter in Iowa that he did not agree with Jeffress.”.......

“At an event in Iowa later Friday, Perry was asked if he believes Mormonism is a cult. “No,” Perry said.”....

Romney is using his own religion, to open a wedge between conservative Republicans and the RINOS. He knows that the conservatives are not going go for his Obamneycare, so Romney is going for the Democrats and he’s getting them. There is now a growing Democrats for Mitt movement. They are saying if they can’t have Obama, they’ll vote for Mitt.

53 posted on 10/12/2011 12:01:38 PM PDT by Eva

To: rzman21; All

Paul Weyrich endeavored to bridge the gap between traditionalist Catholics, Protestants, Jews in spite of theological differences. If Jeffress represents a growing segment among politically active Evangelicals, how long before the age-old fight against the Catholic Church comes back to the fore in the political realm?

Well, please review the chart I placed in post #32. Then ask yourself (& I would challenge anybody, be it Mormon defender or Protestant) to: Please show us where the Pope has made similar spiritual-political imposing statements such as what you find from Lds leaders there. In this way, more vigilance is needed, especially since Romney is now asking opposing candidates to repudiate the religious beliefs of all who endorse them. [He hasn't yet called upon "all" -- but the precedent is now there; what he is applying to one Baptist pastor applies to us all...we either stand in solidarity with the pastor or look out if Romney gets to the White House!].

Salvation by faith alone and sola scriptura are as pernicious in my opinion as Mormon tritheism or some of their other beliefs. Nontheless, I don’t let that decide who I am voting for.

Well, that's your choice as to what influences your vote.

I have probably stated now 20 times or more on FR going back to '07 that, and I repeat: Religion IS NOT a qualification for public office; but it's certainly is one quality of voter discernment among many others...namely, voting record, present position statements & rampant inconsistency of past position statements, social issues' stances, character, viability, scandal-free past, etc.

I certainly advocate that voters take all of the above -- and more -- into consideration.

Now if you are merely exposing your own vantage point that YOU don't take religion into consideration, fine. That's the way I take your comment of "I don’t let that decide who I am voting for."

If you mean going beyond that (& I don't think you do), but stating this more for other posters than yourself...then you are going beyond exposing your vantage point and start to instead impose it upon others.

And I would say, based upon this Rasmussen poll from 5 years ago (late 2006) [see Election 2008: 43% Would Never Vote for Mormon Candidate (Rasmussen Poll) -- that your perspective doesn't even come close to representing the majority of Republicans.

According to an excerpt from that article: The Rasmussen Reports survey found that 35% say that a candidate's faith and religious beliefs are very important in their voting decision. Another 27% say faith and religious beliefs are somewhat important. Ninety-two percent (92%) of Evangelical Christian voters consider a candidate's faith and beliefs important. On the partisan front, 78% of Republicans say that a candidate's faith is an important consideration, a view shared by 55% of Democrats. However, there is also a significant divide on this topic within the Democratic Party. Among minority Democrats, 71% consider faith and religious beliefs an important consideration for voting. Just 44% of white Democrats agree.

So…what % of the following groups found that a candidate’s faith and religious beliefs are an important consideration for voting?
(1) Americans: 62%
(2) Evangelical Christians: 92%
(3) Republicans: 78%
(4) Democrats: 55% [still a majority]

So at least for FREEPERS (beyond you rzman) who might be tempted to "carp" @ such voters who take religious worldviews of a candidate into consideration...please be aware that you're carping vs. 60% of Americans...90% of Evangelical Christians...3/4 of Republicans and over half of Democrats!

54 posted on 10/12/2011 12:24:34 PM PDT by Colofornian (Anyone who can be duped by Joseph Smith can be duped by anyone.)

>>"Gov. Perry selected an individual to introduce him<<

By all credible accounts that is not a true statement. The organization chose the person to introduce him.

>>and because they rely on holy texts in addition to the Bible<<

Uh oh, that covers Catholics also. The author is opening a can of worms on that one me thinks.

55 posted on 10/12/2011 12:43:48 PM PDT by CynicalBear

Like I said, if Romney was such a good moral man, and such a good moral Morman, why did he advocate murdering the unborn for the majority of his political life and why did he support same sex “marriages” in the state of Mass? The Morman Church is against this liberal nonsense. Why is Romney never asked why he went against the teaching of his faith??? That is what conservatives should be worried about. He’s a democrat in republicans clothing and in this day and age of the Tea Party and trying to get REAL CONSERVATIVES elected, why are so many people bowing down to the liberal media and annointing Romney are the GOP nominee for president. THis is crazy. He should be ran out of the Republican Party. His RomneyCare WAS THE MODEL for ObamaCare and so far not a one of the other candidates have held his feet to the fire over it. He bankrupted the state of Mass with his massive socialist programs.

56 posted on 10/12/2011 12:45:28 PM PDT by Highlander1754

To: Highlander1754

Good catch re: Perry's "PR" statement of Romney. If Romney has been so "moral," why so pro-abortion through 2006? Even in Dec. '07 on Katie Couric's show, he was still advocating to parents that they consider giving up their embyros for "research" (destruction).

How bizarre that was...for Romney to use "parents" in one sentence -- mentioning how embyros could be "adopted" -- and then advocate their destruction in the very next sentence? Where was the mass condemnation from the pro-life community? From Romney supporters who were pro-life? From Mormon pro-lifers?

I'll tell you...there was hardly a peep!!!

Also, even the Mormon church owned Deseret News castigated Romney for his role as a member of the Board for Marriott due to its porn linkage.

Imagine you're a "devout Mormon." You've been offered cozy occasional directorship position for a local theater for $25,000 per year.

You find out that the theater shows family-rated fair. But there's a "back entrance" for their XXX showings. You also find out they give $ to Planned Parenthood.

Would you, as an alleged "devout Mormon," continue to take the position knowing that a portion of your salary comes from their porn industry intake? What would you feel knowing that this theater's $ goes to the largest child-killing organization in the world (Planned Parenthood)?

Well, that's Mitt Romney for you. He's done the exact equivalent of the above!!!

Even the Mormon church-owned Deseret News wrote an editorial on July 10, 2007, saying this about Mitt:

Pornography taints everything it touches. Mitt Romney should have understood that. So should the Marriott Corp. and other hotel owners who offer hard-core movies in hotel rooms. Romney caught a bit of flack last week because he spent nearly 10 years on the Marriott board and yet never tried to reverse the company’s policy of providing pornography on demand, something J.W. “Bill” Marriott Jr., defended in a 2000 letter as being economically important. ...For a presidential candidate who has railed against pornography, this is not entirely insignificant. Even if the subject never came up at a board meeting, one can argue that at least part of the $25,000 plus stock he was paid annually for his board membership came from the money some hotel guests paid for access to the films.
Source: The nasty taint of porn

So, that was as of '07 that he had taken $25,000 annually, plus stock from Marriott for being part of their board. He temporarily resigned from the board in '07; but then returned.

I simply didn't know that "devout Mormons" regularly receive $25,000 or more per year as part of the porn industry...

And look who's boycotted Marriott:
...Life Decisions International-- for giving $ to Planned Parenthood [this link gives a few of other chains owned by Marriott]
…and then there’s (from Fall 2009) Marriott Boycotted Over Porn

Per that latter article: AIDS Healthcare and Pink Cross foundations have organized a boycott of Marriott hotels over porn. The protest is not about the Mormon-founded chain's in-room, X-rated offerings. No, that's just fine. The problem, according to the groups, is the hotel company's palette of on-demand smut that features actors who do not use condoms.

Ah. Even the pro-porn liberals were boycotting Marriott because the porn prostitutes it indirectly hired to cater to their voyeuristic guests didn't use condoms! And the Mittster was taking a cut from Marriott's porn profits!

[Oh, BTW, because the top guy of Marriott -- Bill Marriott -- is a hierarchy Mormon leader...Marriott announced within the past year that it would slowly phase out its porn offerings...Hmmm...So Marriott has carried porn for at least 22 years and what, they're going to say 25 years is "enough"...because an alleged "devout Mormon" heads the Marriott show???]

Well, there went Perry's "moral Mormon" theory about Romney.

57 posted on 10/12/2011 12:52:38 PM PDT by Colofornian (Anyone who can be duped by Joseph Smith can be duped by anyone.)

Exactly!!!!!!!

I can almost hear the countdown. JUST as soon as Romney is nominated (IF he is), the MSM is going to unload on him.

58 posted on 10/12/2011 5:54:09 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo

If this is not settled now and Romney gets the nomination, watch the lib media constantly remind everyone that Romney’s religion teaches that obama’s black because of a curse. It’s still in the book of mormon.

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'

August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."
"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."
"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)

1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."

We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.

Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.
The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."
(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).

When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."

When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."
(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)

Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.

“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.

One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)

59 posted on 10/12/2011 8:53:12 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)

What do they have to do with Mormons?

They are not kittens.

60 posted on 10/12/2011 8:54:56 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)

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