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To: jtal; Impy; All
>> The problem is, not even we Christians can agree on what is “Christian”. I am sure some of my protestant brethren on FR would not consider me “Christian” since I am a convert to Catholicism and do not adhere to sola fide or sola scriptura. <<

Apples and oranges. The small minority of protestants who claim Catholics are "not Christian" (and note I said there is a very small group... the vast majority of Protestants would agree Catholics are Chrisitans) are simply basing arguments on personal prejudice. Their argument falls apart when you look at history because if it's true that Catholics "aren't Christian", then Christainity didn't exist until 1600 years after Christ when their brand of protestantism was developed. Indeed, instead of 2 billion Christians in the world, their interpretation of "Christianity" would mean there's probably less than 50 million "Christians" on the whole planet, and great centers of Christianity that were developed by the first apostles and have stood for 2000 years, like Greece and Rome, are "not Christian" in their eyes. Basically we're all going to hell if we don't accept the teachings of their denomination.

Mormonism is different. It didn't exist until the 1800s and developed entirely in America. Its doctrines are vastly different from historic Christianity shared by Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox denominations that otherwise have very little in common. Thus, all the major Christian churches in the world do not accept Mormonism as a Christian denomination. It is a radical departure from accepted Christianity during the 1800 years Christianity existed. One could argue that it's simply a very different "new denomination" of Christianity, but that's like how Christianity was seen as a radically different, "new denomination" of Judiasm for the first 70 years of Christianity. It wasn't a new denomination, it was a new religion based on ideas from the previous religion, but went in an entirely new direction and broke ties with the old religion. The same is true with Mormonism. This shouldn't imply that Mormons are bad people are all going to hell because they're "not Christian", in fact, alot of Mormons are much devout and lead "Christ-like" lives than many praticing Christians. But the religion itself is not Christian, and vastly different Christian communities like Roman Catholics and Southern Baptists agree on that point.

>> If you define it in the broadest terms, as one who sincerely tries to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, then I guess Mormons would qualify <<

The problem is that if you define "Christian" in those terms, then many other faiths could be counted as "Christian" including many Muslims, Hindus, Ba'hai, deist, etc., followers, because many of those adherents will tell you they sincerely try to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ (even if they don't believe Christ was divine and their interpretation of Jesus is quite different from what Chrisitan churches believe)

>> I saw Chris Matthews on tv Friday berating Rick Santorum as to whether Mormonism “was Christian”. Had I been in Santorum’s shoes, I would have asked Matthews if belief in a triune God was necessary to Christianity; if not then they could certainly be called Christians, otherwise no. which was more or less what Santirum said, though it was in the form of deference to the LDS as to whether they were Christians. <<

It was pretty much a lose-lose scenario and Matthews knows that, asking whether Santorum thinks Mormons are Christian is like asking him if he stopped beating his wife. If Santorum points out they don't share the beliefs of most Christians, the media would take the clip out of the context to make it look like Santorum is bashing Mormons. Heck, even some freepers joined the media in claiming Huckabee was an "anti-Mormon bigot!!!" when he (correctly) asked whether Mormons believe Jesus and Satan were "brothers" (Mormon doctrine teachings that both were children of God the Father but that Satan was the black sheep of the family and disowned or whatever)

Basically if I had been in Santorum's shoes I would have probably given an indirect answer as well, and just pointed out that many Mormons uphold Christian virtues and that I get along with them well.

As I noted on another thread today, the simplest way around this one is for politicians to simply acknowledge what I do... that my personal belief about the person's faith is irrelevant because I don't judge a person's qualifications for office on whether or not they're a praticing Christian. I would much rather vote for a solidly conservative Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jew, etc. than I would a socialist who professes to be a devout "Christian"

16 posted on 10/10/2011 12:21:19 PM PDT by BillyBoy (Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: jtal
>> Had I been in Santorum’s shoes, I would have asked Matthews if belief in a triune God was necessary to Christianity; if not then they could certainly be called Christians, otherwise no. <<

I'd add another point, as I mentioned Matthews was going for a "have you stopped beating your wife?" line of attack. The liberal media loves to portray conservatives as intolerant bigots. If Santorum had tried your scenario, I think the exchange would have went something like this:

MATTHEWS
Do you believe Mormons are Christian, Senator?

SANTORUM
It's hard to say because there's different ways people define Christian. Are you going by the premise that Christianity means a belief in the trinity?

MATTHEWS
That's what your church, the Roman Catholic Church teaches, correct?

SANTORUM
Yes. I believe in the trinity.

MATTHEWS
So politicians who do not profess a belief in the trinity aren't Christian in your eyes?

SANTORUM
Well, I didn't say --

MATTHEWS
But that's what your church believes, how it defines Christianity, and you claim obidenence to the Catholic church.

SANTORUM
I do.

MATTHEWS
Are Quakers Christians?

SANTORUM
I thought we were discussing Mormons.

MATTHEWS
We were discussing a belief in the trinity. Quakers do not believe in the the doctrine of the trinity. So your faith tells you that they are not Christians, correct?

SANTORUM
I suppose...

MATTHEWS
And you also believe Seventh Day Adventists are not Christians. In fact, you would say the Christian Science faith founded by Mary Baker Eddy isn't Christian, even though that's the name of the church.

SANTORUM
Are we done yet?

17 posted on 10/10/2011 12:39:20 PM PDT by BillyBoy (Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: BillyBoy; sickoflibs; jtal; fieldmarshaldj

I would make a confused face and say “Yeah Mormon is a kind of Christian isn’t it? Why are you asking about this, voters are concerned about the economy not about a candidate’s religious views, this is the 21st century.”

And I refuse to go into it any further. “I am not interested in playing this game Chris, let’s move on.”.


24 posted on 10/10/2011 3:34:40 PM PDT by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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