it's better to be thought a fool in silence...
Posted on 10/10/2011 10:01:41 AM PDT by marshmallow
Mary is not the Mother of God the Father, Mary is not the Mother of the Holy Spirit. She was the physical Mother of the Lord Jesus Christ.
What you are trying to do is to put her in authority over God saying she is the "Mother of God". No God, the three persons in on is Sovereign over the whole universe and is sovereign over Salvation.
I am convinced she would not like this title, and instead gave herself the title "Handmaiden of the Lord" in Luke 1:38. And to submit herself totally before God instead of trying to run things saying "be it unto me according to thy word".
What is going on is that a False Mary is being promoted with attributes that only God could have "Hearing Prayers, Giving Grace, Healing, redeeming from sins, and being a co-redemptrix". And she is worshiped (under the rubrix of veneration) into something that she is not.
it's better to be thought a fool in silence...
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And you expect her to hear your prayers (something only God can do).
Please cite where in the Bible it says that the saints cannot hear our prayers.
Thanks TC. You would think about years of this I would get used to it, but no. It does get old and on my nerves however. I have not the heart to tell them I am a convert to this faith. I will sit by the door next Sunday and every Sunday as long as Obozo is in office. It looks like we will be greeting more run-offs or converts from the Episcopal church. What can one say? Other than “Welcome home”.
"Do you speak Spanish? Would you like to join the choir? It's never too early to volunteer for the Festival Committee!"
I know several people in Real Life and a few on FR who are convert from the Episcopal Church. It must be very hard having the church which your family may have attended for generations flaking out beneath your feet, as it were.
Co-Redemptrix is a Latin term meaning the woman with the Redeemer not the woman who is equal to the Redeemer.
I'm not fooled.
You've contradicted that assertion several times on this thread alone.
Better brush up on your Scripture reading, kid.
"And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy." Luke 1:42-44
"Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed." Luke 1:48
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw His glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14
"Philip saith to Him: Lord, shew us the Father, and it is enough for us. Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known Me? Philip, he that seeth Me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, Shew us the Father? Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of Myself. But the Father who abideth in Me, He doth the works. Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?" John 14:8-11
"And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16
from what I read of Shakers, they did not believe in having sex. hence no kids — is that correct?
Nah, not many are going to join the Church of Iscool, the one World religion. Instead we Christians (Catholics, Orthodox, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Baptists, Anglicans, Methodists, Presbyterians etc.) are happy with our faith in Our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ
Your cult can go on to believe whatever it wants to believe.
And the Lord Jesus Christ was/is God. hence Mary is the mother of God, Jesus Christ. She is of course not the mother of the Father or the Holy Spirit, but she is the mother of God the Son. The three -- Father, Son and Holy Spirit are co-eternal and of one being and are God and were the ones who created Mary. Mary gave birth to God the Son, Mary was the mother of God the Son.
Just as your mother did not create you by giving birth to you, similarly Mary of course was not the creator, she was in fact created by her Son, Jesus Christ, Lord, GOD and Savior.
If you deny that Mary was the Mother of God the Son, then you are denying Jesus' divinity
Mary can only hear prayers through the Grace of God. She may only dispense the Grace that comes FROM God. She does not redeem you from sin. None of what you say is even our beliefs — stop saying “you believe in this, I say so, now explain to me why.” despite so many telling you that we do not believe what you are saying we do
You didn't get that from scripture...Obviously your religion made that up and now you state it as fact, with not an iota of evidence...
She may only dispense the Grace that comes FROM God.
Do you guys go into a trance when you get baptized into your religion??? Perhaps you all have been hypnotized...Mary doesn't dispense any grace from anyone...Why do you spew this stuff???
She does not redeem you from sin.
But yet you call her your co-redeemer...Your co-mediator...
The Shakers were (are, I suppose - there are a handful practicing, or were fairly recently) a non-Catholic, non-Orthodox, some would say non-Christian, monastic religious order. Among other features, the members practiced celibacy.
In a time of great economic and social turmoil, their stable lives and economic security made them favored caretakers for orphaned or abandoned children, many of whom remained with them in adulthood. Their techological and commercial innovations make their foundations comparable in their effects to the great Benedictine houses of Europe, although over a shorter time span.
That was the theory.
What a Compliment. I'd rather be a fool for Christ than the wisest man in the world.
Only God can hear prayers.
What a bunch of words. The Lord Jesus Christ is Divine because he was the Son of God from the Foundation of the world. Do you not remember His words "Before Abraham was I AM". It is not Mary that makes the Lord Jesus Christ Divine but being God himself.
What, the idea that the saints in heaven hear our prayers, or the idea that the saints in heaven hear our prayers through the power of God?
The idea that the saints in heaven hear our prayers and intercede for us is clear from 2 Maccabees 15:14 (not our fault that that book was taken away from your Bible) and many other passages, including:
Matt 17:1-3 Jesus converses with Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration
Matt 26:53 Jesus says he can call on 12 legions of angels. If he can, so can we. Additionally, he says in Matt 22:30 that the saints in heaven are like angels. Therefore, we can call on them, too.
Rev 5:8 The prayers of the faithful on earth are presented to God by the angels and saints in heaven
Rev 8:3-4 The prayers of the faithful are presented to God by an angel
There many other examples. Also, it only stands to reason that, if we pray for each other on earth because we love each other, when we are in heaven where our love is perfected by God, we will then pray for each other, not less, but perfectly.
As for Mary hearing prayers through God's grace and power, not her own, why should Cronos need Scripture to prove that God is in control and everything happens through Him? Don't you believe that as well?
But yet you call her your co-redeemer...Your co-mediator...
The title is "Mediatrix of all Grace," not "co-mediator".
All grace comes through Mary because all grace comes through the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, which came through Mary. Seems rather obvious.
"Co-Redemptrix" ("co" is a Latin prefix meaning "with," not "equal to") merely means that Mary coöperated in the Redemption in a unique way, mirroring Eve's coöperation in the Fall. That's obvious from Scripture; the rest of us don't have angels appearing to us announcing that we are to become the mother of the Messiah.
Neither of those two titles are taught as dogmatic truth by the Church.
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