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To: NYer
There is a strong cultural component to these reports. For example, in the nineteenth century one crossed a river. Stonewall Jackson's last words were, "come let us cross over the river and sit under the shade of the trees." One crossed "The Jordan.

In India it is reported that the person arrives in front of a bureaucrat sitting behind a desk who then asks the "decedent" "Why are you here?" "There has been a mistake in the paperwork and you must go back."

It is reported that in the Middle Ages the "decedent" was examined in a hostile non-therapeutic fashion.

Wyatt Earps brother immediately prior to his death said to Wyatt; "remember what we were talking about the other day(crossing over)I don't see anything!"

I know a woman who was "Killed" in an accident, her heart was not functioning, no breathing in essence dead. She woke up two days later and reported no out of body, no tunnel of light, no warm fuzzy interrogators, no relatives. As she said "Just blackness!"

In conclusion, these reports are interesting but are not evidence of an after life. Sorry!

14 posted on 09/17/2011 4:02:11 PM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS

My late husband had an NDE when he was first diagnosed with Hodgkin’s disease back in the early 70s. He was on the operating table having a splenectomy when his heart stopped. He said he felt himself out of his body, at the top of the room, looking down on the doctors trying to resuscitate him. He said he felt completely peaceful and good - and could sense his grandfather’s presence near him. He was nothing like a “true believer” and I believed him. I’ve since been comforted by reading accounts of NDEs. I know it’s not particularly Biblical, but there does seem to be something going on. And I’ve read in many of these people recognize it’s Christ they’re seeing as “the Light” and feeling a great enveloping love from it. I find this very comforting!


18 posted on 09/17/2011 4:15:00 PM PDT by madmominct
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS

Seems the “evidence” points more to an after-life than not.


21 posted on 09/17/2011 4:22:01 PM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
"In conclusion, these reports are interesting but are not evidence of an after life. Sorry!"

I beg to differ. They may not be conclusive evidence, but they do collectively suggest there is something there, at least for some of us.

32 posted on 09/17/2011 5:18:52 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS

Your account of India is merely one occurance, not a cultural standard.


60 posted on 09/17/2011 7:57:10 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
Aemilius Paulus,

Did you read any of Moody's books? One of the most compelling aspects of the near death experiences are those people who later tell of events that were impossible for them to know.

One of the examples ( of several) was the boy who during his NDE meets his cousin. When he returned to consciousness, he told his aunt not to worry that his cousin was safe and happy and in heaven. His cousin had been killed in an automobile accident shortly before his NDE and no one knew about it, even as the boy was telling his aunt that his cousin was in heaven. Moody interviewed not only the boy but those family members involved.

Also....Moody did his work long before NDE was known in the culture, as it is today, yet, even though it was impossible for the people who had the NDEs to have known each other, or to have known of this phenomena, there were major common themes in their experiences.

Personally....I believe it is worth while to investigate NDEs and not to casually dismiss them, especially when regaining consciousness the person affected tells of events with others that would be impossible for him to know.

70 posted on 09/18/2011 5:25:12 AM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS

***In conclusion, these reports are interesting but are not evidence of an after life. Sorry!***

Maybe each person reacts differently. When I had open heart surgery I went to sleep and woke up with tubes in my mouth and nose. Nothing in between.

My mom, on the other hand, when she suffered massive burns began to die. She told us years later she was slowly pulled up into a tunnel, and at the end she saw the silhouette of Jesus. He did not beckon her and merely said he had three babies. The she began to recede from what she saw and woke up in the hospital room. The staff had given her up for dead but she revived. She lived a very religious life afterward.

She never told this to any of us till we were well into our forties.


86 posted on 09/18/2011 1:54:10 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Click my name. See my home page, if you dare! NEW PHOTOS & PAINTINGS)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS

I want to add this. Just before my mother died she was talking to my sister. Mom said there were two men dressed in black there, one a the foot of the bed and one setting in a chair there. Sis said there was no one there, but it sure put the scare in her.


87 posted on 09/18/2011 2:04:35 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Click my name. See my home page, if you dare! NEW PHOTOS & PAINTINGS)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
the incidence of NDE is only 30 percent of those revived. I haven't heard of any of these, but I did have one woman who almost died in childbirth who said she saw Jesus.... Even Father Groechel of EWTN, when he was hit by a car and expected to die and was in a deep coma, said he remembered nothing.

On the other hand, there are too many incidents by folks not especially religious, who faced death and felt peace and a presence. This includes a lot of folks who lived through the "miracle on the Hudson" and others who faced death, but didn't have the hypoxia and drugs on board of those who died and were revived, so aren't included in the NDE experience.

I agree there is a strong cultural bias about this, and that there are a lot of reasons sceptics will not see in this a proof of life after death.

But some folks' lives change from the experience, and like falling in love, it is not easy to put into a logical box.

one more note: The movie Tombstone had Wyatt's brother not seeing anything when he died, but if you saw the whole thing, they had Doc Holliday seeing a light as he died in the hospital. I wouldn't rely on fiction to prove such things

89 posted on 09/18/2011 7:38:19 PM PDT by LadyDoc
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