Rome is home
Posted on 09/16/2011 2:03:26 PM PDT by NYer
This past Tuesday, September 13, I taught my first RCIA class, offered at St. Peter’s Catholic Student Center at Baylor University. Although I have been teaching philosophy to college students for twenty-five years, I was a bit nervous. Thankfully, I have a minor role in the class, leading only one session this semester with perhaps another one or two in the Spring. Our RCIA team consists of several seasoned parishioners, with St. Peter’s gifted pastor, Fr. Anthony Odiong, overseeing the entire enterprise.
I spoke on the topic of Revelation, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium, focusing on how I came to accept the Catholic understanding of this subject in my own journey from Evangelicalism and back to the Church. (I am a revert).
As a Christian philosopher I had always had a keen interest in how faith and reason interact and what that means for both the life of the mind and our walk with Christ. Although I had read many books and articles on these matters by both Catholics and Protestants, the ones that seemed most sensible to me were those that I would later learn were more “Catholic” than “Protestant” in spirit and approach.
So, even though I was an Evangelical, I read with great interest John Paul II’s encyclical, Fides et Ratio: On Faith and Reason soon after it was released in September 1998. After reading it, I concluded that the most important lessons that Evangelicals can learn from this document were the pope’s insights on how certain philosophies will, because of their own internal logic, undermine confidence in the truth of the Gospel message.
John Paul II was interested in saving souls, and he understood that bad philosophy, if not challenged by good philosophy, would make the Church’s mission of soul saving more difficult. Although he notes that there is no one official Christian philosophy, there are limits to the extent to which a philosophy can be employed to illuminate Christian truth. For example, a Christian scholar cannot incorporate scientific materialism, deconstructionism, or moral relativism into Christian theology without distorting fundamental truths about the order and nature of things taught in Scripture and Sacred Tradition.
That is to say, Biblical scholars and systematic theologians, who think they can extract doctrine from Scripture unaided by the resources of philosophical analysis, are kidding themselves and are not doing a service to the Church. That’s why, for John Paul, an interpreter of Scripture must be conscientious in ensuring that he is approaching the text with sound philosophical principles.
As a Protestant who embraced sola scriptura, I found myself not entirely comfortable with the pope’s critique of “Biblicism,” which he defined as a perspective “which tends to make the reading and exegesis of Sacred Scripture the sole criterion of truth.” Although my discomfort was the result of the late pontiff’s appeal to the Church’s Magisterium as the authoritative interpreter of Scripture, I concluded that he was correct that Scripture could not by itself be the source of theological knowledge without the assistance of philosophical reflection.
Rome is home
Thus, it became obvious to me that every major doctrinal dispute in the first six centuries of the Church could not have been resolved by mere citation of Bible verses. Rather, it required an elegant and rationally defensible interaction between the text of Scripture and certain philosophical categories.
Consider just two examples. The First Council of Nicaea (A.D. 325) asserts that the Church believes in “one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten of the Father, that is, of the substance [ek tēs ousias] of the Father.” The Council of Chalcedon (AD 451) affirms that Jesus Christ is “the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, of a rational soul and a body; consubstantial with the Father as regards his divinity, and the same consubstantial with us as regards his humanity” and “at no point was the difference between the natures taken away through the union, but rather the property of both natures is preserved and comes together into a single person and a single subsistent being.”
Both councils are in fact employing philosophical terms of art – e.g., “substance,” “rational soul,” “consubstantial,” “nature,” “subsistent,” and “perfect” – that provide a conceptual framework by which we may better understand the depiction of Christ in Scripture.
Just as the rules of grammar are essential to reading Scripture (even though these rules are not derived from Scripture), the philosophical categories integral to the creeds are essential for deriving theology from Scripture even though they are not themselves contained in Scripture.
But from this concession – that one cannot do Biblical theology without philosophy – I could not avoid the next step, one that placed me at the edge of the Tiber. Although I had concluded that the Church employed both Scripture and philosophy in settling the disputes at Nicaea and Chalcedon, it took me nearly a decade to see clearly that they were only truly settled ecclesiastically when a Church Council, with real binding authority, affirmed one side as orthodox and the other as heretical.
For this reason, the Catholic Church believes – as I came to believe – that these conciliar judgments cannot be mere theological theories that are nothing more than another era’s winds of doctrine about which St. Paul warns us we should not be “tossed to and fro.” (Eph. 4:14). Thus, I was driven to a conclusion that I could find no reason to reject: they are the deliverances of the Church’s Magisterium, in its service as interpreter of Scripture, guided by the Holy Spirit, and acting in its role as the authoritative arbiter on doctrinal matters.
Ping!
Mark 7:8
New International Version (©1984)
You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."
New Living Translation (©2007)
For you ignore God's law and substitute your own tradition."
English Standard Version (©2001)
You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men."
International Standard Version (©2008)
You abandon the commandment of God and hold to human tradition."
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"You abandon the commandments of God to follow human traditions."
King James Bible
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
American King James Version
For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things you do.
American Standard Version
Ye leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men.
Bible in Basic English
For, turning away from the law of God, you keep the rules of men.
Douay-Rheims Bible
For leaving the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, the washing of pots and of cups: and many other things you do like to these.
Darby Bible Translation
For, leaving the commandment of God, ye hold what is delivered by men to keep washings of vessels and cups, and many other such like things ye do.
English Revised Version
Ye leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men.
Webster's Bible Translation
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Weymouth New Testament
"You neglect God's Commandment: you hold fast to men's traditions."
World English Bible
"For you set aside the commandment of God, and hold tightly to the tradition of men--the washing of pitchers and cups, and you do many other such things."
Young's Literal Translation
for, having put away the command of God, ye hold the tradition of men, baptisms of pots and cups; and many other such like things ye do.'
Quix, do you accept and believe 2 Tim 3:16 ("all Scripture is God-breathed /theopneustos/ and profitable for doctrine") ???
If you do, then what do you do with these Scriptures:
Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. -- 1 Cor 11:2
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle. -- 2 Thess 2:15
But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us. -- 2 Thess 3:6(All Scripture citations from the NKJV. Feel free to look them up in 20 other translations if you wish.)
If Jesus condemns every tradition, then Paul teaches things Jesus condemns.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
This choice is REAL easy...Bible is spiritual...It is not philosophical...
Can any human including a Pope save a soul ??? Not if you believe YHvH's WORD. Shabbat Shalom !! Praise His Holy NAME !! Brother Francis need to answer this question :
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Rav Paul was teaching traditionsshalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiachWere they the pagan tradition of "queen of heaven" ??
Were they traditions of rejecting the Holy WORD of Elohim ??
I think not; Paul was teaching the Holy WORD of Elohim.
Shabbat Shalom !
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All here including the author need to go to the Author of the Bible and ask Him what was meant when the Greek word paraosis was used...ordinance, tradition
What “traditions” was Jesus talking about ???
What “traditions” was Paul talking about ???
Instead of arguing about the Words of God in man’s tradition, why dont you fast and pray in the Spirit and find out for yourself ???
Jesus would tell you its your unbelief that stops you from knowing and doing...
Well how did Jesus say you were to overcome your flesh and kill the unbelief ???
“This kind (of unbelief) comes out by prayer and fasting” Mark 17:21
This author seems to have read a lot of traditional mens books...
Pity while he was a so called “Evengelical” (whatever that is) he didnt learn about speaking in tongues for personal edification...
In other words so that he would kill the flesh that was getting in the way of him knowing more about God for himself...
Praying in the Spirit, (tongues), and fasting doesnt move God ...it moves us into a place where we can hear Him...
Oh is that whats it for Nana???
Yes little grasshopper...
You mean I can pray in tongues whenever I want to ???
Yes...
Well do I have to pray in tongues ???
No, but you might want to...because you get to...and its needful...
The more of the flesh that is out of the way...
the more the spirit can move in and take dominion over your sinful unbelieving flesh ...
Then you wont have to argue about what you think God meant in His word...
You will know...
and be able to operate the Word as He intended for you to do...
Preaching His Gospel and getting the lost saved...
Laying hands on the sick and seeing them healed
Casting devils out of the demon pocessed...
Yes even raising the dead...
and why not...
Jesus said anything He did while He was here we can do...
He didnt save you just so you could sit on your butts arguing about what He or Paul might have meant..
He saved you to do the work of the Gospel...
Do I have to preach to strangers and tell them about Jesus, Nana ??? Im like Moses, Im shy ...
Well youre not shy in these threads...
You tell your fellow FReepers what you think without stuttering...
So do whats necessary to take a multitude to Heaven with you...
Anyhoo you get the picture...
The time is short...
Jesus is coming back real soon...
The nations and events are getting in line for His coming...
But dont worry...
God is still Supreme...
So be listening for the sound of the trumpet...
for the LORD Jesus Christ is returning and we shall rise to meet Him in the air...
The dead in Christ first...and then we who are still alive... and we will be with the LORD in Heaven forever..1 Thessalonians 4:1, 17
“Surely I come quckly”
“Even so, come LORD Jesus” Revelation 22:20
ABSOLUTELY INDEED.
EXTREMELY WELL PUT.
ANOINTED.
THX.
What traditions are it that we are to keep that Paul handed down?
Where’s the record of them?
I know you meant well, but it didn’t take long for this to just infuriate all the usual suspects.
Let me just say that I agree with the conclusions of the author and returned to the church for those very reasons.
It is always a joy to hear the story of others, just a shame to have it ruined.
I cannot fight the good fight today or have a defense ready for my faith, the last “discussion” has me drained.
John 6:28-29 (niv)
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Avoid ruination TODAY!!
Hie thee to a CAUCUS thread for uplifting and pest free conversations!
LOL, I enjoy those as well.
It is not that I am not up for a good discussion with our separated brethren, it is that I have been in one for nearly two weeks now and need some rejuvenation.
I have been on that thread for nearly two weeks and have nothing more to add to it.
I was blessed to share some great insights with other Catholics but also to have some great conversations with our brothers and sisters in Christ who are not.
When I enter these conversations, I always learn something so there is place for them but I think that one has run its course.
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