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To: Avalon Hussar
"I don't see Mary's name in there, so she can't be a co-redeemer now can she? Venerate her for her part in bringing Christ into the world, but don't worship her."

The ignorance of Catholic doctrine expressed on these threads is truly breathtaking in it's scope. Catholic doctrine and the Catechism is very clear that we have one redeemer and mediator; Jesus Christ. The words co-redeemer and mediatrix do not appear in the Catechism, although they do appear frequently in anti-Catholic publications and comic books by authors we are not permitted to name in this Forum.

Co-Redeemer does not mean that Mary is a "co-equal" participant. It is an acknowledgment that she cooperated in our salvation by agreeing to be the vessel through which Jesus and our salvation passed. Catholics acknowledge that Mary most perfectly embodies the obedience of faith in a way we should emulate.

587 posted on 09/05/2011 9:02:58 AM PDT by Natural Law (For God so loved the world He did not send a book.)
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To: Natural Law
The ignorance of Catholic doctrine expressed on these threads is truly breathtaking in it's scope. Catholic doctrine and the Catechism is very clear that we have one redeemer and mediator; Jesus Christ. The words co-redeemer and mediatrix do not appear in the Catechism, although they do appear frequently in anti-Catholic publications and comic books by authors we are not permitted to name in this Forum. Co-Redeemer does not mean that Mary is a "co-equal" participant. It is an acknowledgment that she cooperated in our salvation by agreeing to be the vessel through which Jesus and our salvation passed. Catholics acknowledge that Mary most perfectly embodies the obedience of faith in a way we should emulate.

If there's ignorance of a doctrine here, then a good place to begin would be straightening it out within your own definitions first. This is what I found when I looked up "Co-Redemptrix".

The concept of Co-redemptrix refers to an indirect or unequal but important participation by the Blessed Virgin Mary in redemption, notably: that she gave free consent to give life to the Redeemer, to share his life, to suffer with him under the cross, to offer His sacrifice to God the Father for the sake of the redemption of mankind, and to bring about all particular post-assumption graces by way of intercession.

You're right that Mary isn't a co-equal participant, she's not a participant in our Redemption at all. She gave birth to Christ, she didn't have anything to do with His redemption of mankind. As for saying that Mary isn't called the Mediatrix by the RCC, here's some quotes for you from the Catholic Planet website. (www.catholicplanet.com)

Second Vatican Council: “Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix and Mediatrix. This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from, nor adds anything to, the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.” (Lumen Gentium, n. 62.)

Pope Leo XIII: “The recourse we have to Mary in prayer follows upon the office she continuously fills by the side of the throne of God as Mediatrix of Divine grace; being by worthiness and by merit most acceptable to Him, and, therefore, surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven. Now, this merciful office of hers, perhaps, appears in no other form of prayer so manifestly as it does in the Rosary. For in the Rosary all the part that Mary took as our co-Redemptress comes to us, as it were, set forth, and in such wise as though the facts were even then taking place; and this with much profit to our piety, whether in the contemplation of the succeeding sacred mysteries, or in the prayers which we speak and repeat with the lips.” (Iucunda Semper Expectatione, n. 2)

Now, what was that lie you were trying to get past about Mary not being called a Co-Redeemer?

601 posted on 09/05/2011 9:17:13 AM PDT by Avalon Hussar
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To: Natural Law; Avalon Hussar
So sorry it's nearly taken your breath away, NL. The ignorance of Catholic doctrine expressed on these threads must surely keep you awake at night. Wanting nothing more than true understanding of what we non-catholics read regarding your Catholic doctrine and Catechism. Perhaps you could shed some light on your Catechism numbers 494,963-973. That would be Mary as Co-Redeemer. Or your Catechism 968-971,975,2673-2682. That would be Mary as the Mediatress of All Grace.

Not to mention Catholic teachings on Mary, and Vatican Councils coming up with new and improved Mary teachings.

THe words co-redeemer and mediatrix do not appear in the Catechism? Is that right? However they DO appear in Catholic teachings. I have a whole list right in front of me.

614 posted on 09/05/2011 9:26:23 AM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: Natural Law
Co-Redeemer does not mean that Mary is a "co-equal" participant

Sorry but you guys don't get to invent your own dictionary for the unCatholics...We know what co-redeemer means...

868 posted on 09/05/2011 4:51:49 PM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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