Rev. 18:3: Evolution...Primordial Heresy as Royal Science of Man Becoming God

From the days of Adam right down to our own time, the devilish belief that man is God has danced across history, seducing millions in its path. Early Church Father John of Damascus identifies barbarism as the primordial heresy, the idea that man is god:

"Barbarism is that which prevailed from the days of Adam down through ten generations to the time of Noah. It is called barbarism because of the fact that in those times men had no ruling authority or mutual accord, but every man was independent and a law unto himself after the dictates of his own will." (John of Damascus, "The Fount of Knowledge," cited in Political Apocalypse, Ellis Sandoz, p. 131)

After studying civilizations across the whole span of history, noted historian Arnold Toynbee concluded that the paramount religion of mankind is self-worship...of man as god. Tal Brooke concurs, noting that historically there has always been an exoteric polytheism-pantheism for the general masses and a high level esoteric "advaitic" monism for the higher initiate. For initiates then:

".... the Great Lie (is) the foundation stone of Hinduism, Buddhism, Sufism, Jainism, Sikhism, Taoism, the Kabala, the Greek Hermetic, Eleusinian and Gnostic beliefs, Neo-Platonism, all the occult creeds from Theosophy and the Masonic orders to the Rosicrucian's (and) the New Age movement. The Great Lie is...the belief that man is God, that his true identity is the immortal self...that as God, he will never die (and) Sin and depravity are...illusions since this inner divinity is at man's core." (The Great Lie, Tal Brooke, SCP Journal, Vol. 29:2-29:3, 2005)

The Book of Revelation pinpoints Babylon as the post-flood center both of an organized religion based on the primordial heresy and as the first utopian or heaven on earth project. Babylon embraced the Great Lie. Its inhabitants claimed the title, "I AM." They were earmarked by their "advaitic monism," science of magic-transformism, exalted priesthood, gnosis, secret initiations, sorcery, astrology, channeling, psychic-powers, familiar spirits, and hedonism. But the root source of this evil religion and its occult power was the Great Dragon himself....Lucifer.

God abhors these practices and sternly reminds His people through the prophet Isaiah (45:18-19) not to be seduced by Babylon's deadly delusion:

"I AM the Lord, and there is none other. I have not spoken in secret, neither in a place of darkness." "I said not to the seed of Jacob..." seek me in the monistic 'one thing'....chaos, the formless void, Kant's deified reason,' Hegel's Geist, Marx's dialectical matter, Natural Selection, the Force, the Overmind, Absolute Spirit, the Christ consciousness or the "thought-universe" of quantum mechanics.

"Exalting mankind to the status of deity...dates from the farthest reaches of antiquity, but its development into an ideology embracing the masses is a characteristic of modernity." (Herbert Schlossberg, cited in The Seduction of Christianity, Dave Hunt and T.A. McMahon)

Toynbee pinpointed the bloody French Revolution as the first orchestrated reappearance of the primordial heresy, and in tacit agreement with the findings of early Conservative intellectuals, of the entire "nightmare of destruction in which America and other nations participated" from WWI through WWII as further manifestations. (The Conservative Intellectual Movement in America, George H. Nash, p. 31)

" rationalism, positivism, naturalism, materialism, evolutionism, social Darwinism, Natural Selection, empiricism, Hegelianism, Marxism, scientific socialism, scientism, Secular Humanism, Tran humanism, Freudianism, existentialism, progressivism, liberalism, utopianism, revolutionary activism, fascism, communism, national socialism, determinism, reductionism, nihilism, deconstructionism, moral relativism, antitheism, behaviorism and underlying them all, atheism."

In his book "Utopia: The Perennial Heresy," Catholic philosopher and historian Thomas Molnar (1910-2010) notes that the two recurring themes of modern ideologies are monism and evolutionary conceptions. At the root of these two themes there is:

" defiance of God, pride unlimited, a yearning for enormous power and the assumption of divine attributes with a view to manipulating and shaping mankind's fate." (p. 227)

"the order of being must be obliterated (and reinterpreted) as essentially under man's control." Taking control "requires the decapitation of being — the murder of God." (Eric Voegelin, "Science, Politics and Gnosticism," p. xv)

Fundamentally, Darwinism is materialist monism and as the pillar of natural science is the devilish idea by which naturalist god-men have "decapitated God" and seized control of the order of being.

"(Darwinism is) nothing but a kind of cult, a cult religion....It has no scientific validity whatsoever. Darwin's so-called theory of evolution is based on absurdly irrational propositions, which did not come from scientific observations, but were artificially introduced from the outside, for political-ideological reasons." (Jonathan Tennenbaum, "Towards 'A New Science of Life,' Executive Intelligence Review, Vol. 28, No. 34, Sept. 7, 2001)

Indeed, Daniel Dennett tacitly agrees, for he describes Darwinism as a 'universal acid.' In other words, Darwinism is the "acid bath" in which God the Father and His entire order of being are in process of dissolution, a diabolical conjuration requiring the conceptual dismantling of:

" human individuality through the dissolution of individual conscience and consciousness, and then to replace these with the collectivity (monism) and coalesced consciousness (i.e., the Force, Christ Consciousness)." (Molnar, 227, emphasis added)

In this light, when Daniel Dennett, the Wizard of Reductionism claims that there really is no you, that soul, spirit and free will are illusions caused by chemical interactions in the brain and Tom Wolfe, Sorcerer of Naturalism waves his magic wand and intones, "Sorry, but your soul just died," they speak as sorcerers (Acts 13:6-10) conjuring away man's "individual conscience and consciousness" through words that destroy. (The Spiritual Brain: A Neuroscientist's Case for the Existence of the Soul, Beauregard and O'Leary, p. 4)

"The leading principle of Utopian religion is the repudiation of the doctrine of Original Sin." (H.G. Wells, A Modern Utopia, 1905)

Repudiating Original Sin necessitates the obliteration of the transcendent God and His order of being, a project already underway by the time of Descartes. In her book "Total Truth," Nancy Pearcy, a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute, writes that one of the great ironies of history is that the enduring impact of Descartes philosophy has been precisely the opposite of what he had intended. Descartes had intended the defense of the human soul over and against the dehumanizing mechanistic and materialistic conception of the universe. Instead, the soul — and its citadel mind — was reduced to a shadowy substance totally irrelevant to the material realm known by natural science. The immortal soul became a kind of ghost only tenuously connected to the physical body. The novelist Walker Percy speaks of the:

"dread chasm that has rent the soul of Western man ever since the famous philosopher Descartes ripped body loose from mind and turned the very soul into a ghost that haunts its own house." ("Total Truth," Nancy Pearcey, p. 103)

After the success of Newtonian physics natural science began to be viewed as the way of progress and enlightenment and nature described as a cosmic machine, governed by deterministic energies working through natural laws as strictly as the gears of a clock. Though soul and spirit are crucial for reason, conscience, morality, belief, faith, prayer, theorizing, science, and religion, there was no room for them in the mindless cosmic machine.

The mechanistic conception gave rise to rationalism, determinism, positivism and scientific materialism (atheism), which grant naturalistic science a monopoly on so-called "real" knowledge while trivializing everything else to personal belief and social constructs.

"Evil thoughts...generated evil deeds." (George H. Nash, The Conservative Intellectual Movement, p.48)

"Observing the modern intellectual crap, it is time that someone knocked at the door of...Immanuel Kant and told him the fatidic words from that famous Brazilian comic samba — Here, take back your child." (The Father of the Crap, Olavo de Carvalho, Mar. 5, 1998, www.olavodecarvalho.org/ )

The German philosopher Immanuel Kant was a pivotal figure in the obliteration of man's immortal soul. Kant desired to cut loose from God, and being morally defective he eagerly embraced the Enlightenment's mechanistic image of man and the universe. Thus he took it upon himself to recast mind and freedom as "autonomous self" and the material realm as the deterministic Newtonian world machine. In praise of the cosmic machine he wrote:

"(it is) necessary that everything which takes place should be infallibly determined in accordance with the laws of nature." (Total Truth, p. 104)

Though Kant saw the need for reason and morality, which presupposes the soul (mind and free will), he nevertheless sought autonomy from God the Father, thus negating the existence of his own soul....and reason. Undeterred, Kant went on to define self-autonomy as being subject only to laws imposed on himself by himself. In short, Kant would be sovereign and influenced by nothing but his own deified reason. This is a variant of idealist monism that teaches that reality and creative powers exist within man's mind. As one theologian commented:

"The creation of universal (moral) law was traditionally the function of God alone, and this function is now arrogated to the individual human rational will." Thus it can be said that "Kant has made reason into God." (ibid, p. 105)

It is crucial to realize Kant's dichotomy is outright contradictory. For if mindless nature really is the deterministic machine of Newtonian physics, then mind (i.e., reason), morality, belief, and science are not possible in that man is nothing but a puppet dancing to the mindless tunes of mindless nature. Even Kant admitted that this was a paradox that he was unable to resolve. The trick, he said, is to enter into a charade. We will be swindlers who on one hand will publicly pretend to be fully caused and determined by nature while on the other we will quietly participate in a spiritual world where we conceive of ourselves as free moral agents.

According to Kant's swindle the material realm is the realm of publicly verifiable scientific facts which in our own time are for example, Darwinism, atheism, man as evolved ape, determinism, and moral relativism while the spiritual is the politically-incorrect realm of belief, faith, religion, special creation, God the Father and moral absolutes. Kant's swindle is behind the Orwellian-speak or politically-correct cognitive dissonance that has become pandemic in our own day through the efforts of contemporary Kantians: social scientists, evolutionary biologists, Hollywood, media, higher education, jurists, and sorcerers such as Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, and Richard Dawkins.

Following Kant's lead, a legion of neo-pagan ideologues openly advocated total integration into mindless nature. What these malcontents sought was salvation from God the Father, Original Sin, Universal Moral Law, sexual ethics, and their own immortal souls by immersing themselves into the "forces and rhythms of nature." Lester Crocker summarizes the Enlightenment premise:

"There existed in the eighteenth century a widespread desire to equate the moral with the physical world...." What was desired above all was, "total integration of man in nature, with refusal of any transcendence, even though it was admitted that his more complex physical organization gave him certain special abilities and ways of thinking. The important thing, as La Mettrie, d'Holbach, and others made clear, is that he is submitted to the same laws; everything is response to need — mechanically, some added, like a tree or a machine. Man merely carries out natural forces — without any freedom whatsoever — in all he does, whether he loves or hates, helps or hurts, gives life or takes it." (Monsters from the Id, E. Michael Jones, p. 5, 7)

"With Voltaire, man is a pure machine; Frederick the Great maintains..."I know that I am an animal organized, and that thinks; hence, I conclude that matter can think, as well as that it has the property of being electric." La Mettries' "man-machine, or his man-plant, only caused the Sect to blush from the open manner in which he had said what many of them wished to insinuate." (ibid, p. 6, 7)

The Enlightenment was in effect a diabolical effort to murder God the Father and obliterate His order of being, allowing for reality to be replaced with escapist fantasy: the cosmic machine and soulless machine-man, fully caused and determined by unseen forces of nature, with Newtonian physics as its guide.

Though Kant and others had speculated on a naturalistic origin of the universe, the picture was not complete until Darwinian materialism replaced God the Father and creation ex nihilo with a counterfeit: spontaneous generation of mindless matter from nothing.

The roots of evolution stretch back to the ancient Upanishads of India and to ancient Greece, and in its modern version evolution describes the progress (transmigration) of a divine spark or energy as it inhabits in succession the bodies of different beings over the course of millions and billions of years. In the words of Emergent Church leader Rob Bell:

"There is an energy in the world, a spark, an electricity that everything is plugged into. The Greeks called it zoe, the mystics call it 'Spirit,' and Obi-Wan called it 'the Force'.....This energy, spark, and electricity that pulses through all of creation sustains it, fuels it, and keeps it growing. Growing, evolving, reproducing..." (Love Wins, pp. 144-145)

"the evolution of man into superman — was always the purpose of the ancient Mysteries, and the real purpose of modern Masonry is not the social and charitable purposes to which so much attention is paid, but the expediting of the spiritual evolution of those who aspire to perfect their own nature and transform it into a more god-like quality. And this is a definite science, a royal art, which it is possible for each of us to put into practice..." (The Meaning of Masonry, W.L. Wilmhurst, p. 47)

Charles Darwin received the idea of evolution from his grandfather Dr. Erasmus Darwin who was a neo-pagan monist known to attend séances. As master of the famous Masonic Canongate lodge in Edinburgh he had close ties with both the Jacobin Masons, the organizers of the bloody revolution in France, and with the infamous Illuminati, whose diabolical cause was overthrow of the Church and destruction of Christendom. Thus Erasmus Darwin was an important name in European Masonic anti-religious organizations engaged in revolutionary activism. Erasmus Darwin mentored his grandson Charles:

"Dr. Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802) was the first man in England to suggest those ideas which were later to be embodied in the Darwinian theory by his grandson, Charles Darwin (1809-1882) who wrote in 1859 Origin of Species." (Scarlet and the Beast, Vol. II, John Daniel, p. 34)

Pope Leo XIII issued a famous bull in 1884 entitled Humanum Genus in which he discussed the evil undertakings of the Free Masons and the Illuminati:

"...the partisans of evil seems to be combining together, and to be struggling with united vehemence, led on or assisted by that strongly organized and widespread association called the Freemasons. No longer making any secret of their purposes, they are now boldly rising up against God Himself." They intend nothing less than "the utter overthrow of that whole religious and political order of the world which the Christian teaching has produced, and the substitution of a new state of things in accordance with their ideas (that) shall be drawn from mere naturalism." (Humanum Genus, Encyclical on Freemasonry)

"Instead of Adam, our ancestry is traced to the most grotesque of creatures; thought is phosphorous; the soul complex nerves, and our moral sense a secretion of sugar." (Disraeli, quoted by John Passmore "A Hundred Years of Philosophy," p. 36)

With the triumph of natural science and Darwinism in the nineteenth century, the murder of God and the obliteration of His order was cast in the cement of "enlightened" pseudo-science. Westerners would be cut off from God the Father and their own souls, thereby disrupting:

"the bio-psycho-spiritual unity of human consciousness...." (Authenticating the Activities of Jesus, Bruce Chilton and Craig A. Evans, 1999)

The modern secular "scientistic" West has almost succeeded in obliterating the souls of its' citizens and now seeks obliteration of the two sexes:

"Little Johnny went to school; There to learn a brand new rule; No longer could the boys be boys Or have their special trucks and toys; Only six, so young and tender, It's time for him to unlearn gender." (Here At School the Slant is Gay, cited in Our Gay Pride President, David A. Noebel, http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worldview-times/article.php?articleid=7292 )

The Christian Truth which had been undermined and displaced by primordial heresy developed as ideology and natural religion was no mere philosophical truth but the Truth of Life and salvation. Once there began to:

"gain ground, among the multitudes who have been nourished by that Truth, the conviction that it is no longer credible, the result will be...a spiritual catastrophe of enormous dimensions." (Nihilism: The Root of the Revolution of the Modern Age, Eugene Rose, pp. 44-45)

The climate of naturalist scientism established by eighteenth-century rationalists was extended by nineteenth-century positivists and evangelists of the idea of collective progress (monism), giving birth to the first natural religion of science: scientific socialism and/or Marxist Communism.

Fyodor Dostoevsky had a bitter foretaste of the demonically malignant effects of scientific socialism, "a spiritual catastrophe of enormous dimensions." This evil religion, said Dostoevsky:

"....is that terrible scourge of mankind, a scourge worse than plague, famine and war, an evil that didn't exist until this century... one that has its own priests and slaves; a tyrant that is worshipped with unprecedented awe and adulation before which science itself fawns and cringes." (The Restitution of Man: C.S. Lewis and the Case Against Scientism, Michael D. Aeschliman, p. 37)

Toward the close of the nineteenth century thinkers like Nietzsche foresaw the spiritual catastrophe that would eventuate in the genocidal "nightmare of destruction in which America and other nations participated" from WWI through WWII.

Today the Christian West is dead, leaving it with no moral defense against either jihadist fanatics and the imposition of Sharia on one hand or the approach of the satanic New Age on the other.

The contemporary West is drunk on the primordial heresy of Babylon. As progressive Christian Liberalism, it is the carrier of the devilish occult spiritual virus into the embattled Body of the Church where it acts to divide Christians against themselves. Peter Jones, author of "Spirit Wars: Pagan Revival in Christian America" connects progressive Christian Liberalism to ancient devilish Gnosticism, saying they are kindred-spirits.

As the natural religion of America's bipartisan (left-right) Ruling Class, it leads them to pray:

"to themselves as saviors of the planet and as shapers of mankind in their own image." (The Ruling Class, Angelo M. Codevilla, p. xix)

The Primordial Heresy is at the root of the 'scientific' religion of New Age Transnational Progressives, the Masters of the Universe, who with their Transcended Spirit Masters, aspire to complete control of the world and every man, woman, and child. Lee Penn notes that evolution is absolutely central to New Age theology, a syncretistic, monistic stew of Liberal Christianity, Theosophy, Spiritism, the Ancient Mysteries, Buddhism, Wicca, Goddess worship, and adulation of Lucifer. In the newest version of that "terrible scourge of mankind, a scourge worse than plague, famine and war," New Age god-men envision a spiritualized version of Marxist Communism that includes:

4.Utter contempt for authentic Roman Catholics, Protestant Christians, and faithful Jews

5. Forecasting a pending (and for them, desirable) "selection" of mankind, in which the progressives enter the New Age and the reactionaries face extinction. For the New Age Apostles of "progressive" Social Darwinism, these casualties are a necessary price to pay for human evolution." (False Dawn: The United Religions Initiative, Globalism, and the Quest for a One-World Religion, Lee Penn, pp. 5,7, 23-26)

The West's suicide looms in tandem with a rising spiritual catastrophe as the demonic in modern ideological movements penetrates ever deeper into the souls of Westerners, materializing and disordering them. On a daily basis, evolutionist ideologues and other secular naturalists in control of media, institutions of learning, Hollywood, law, and politics reinforce the demonic closing of souls to God the Father. Thus every day witnesses the spread of barbarism as more and more Westerners become "independent and a law" unto themselves.

"One Ring to rule them all...One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them." J.R.R. Tolkien

Though all of the ideologies have gone into the casting of the One Ring, none are so mesmerizing nor powerfully attractive as evolution, the Primordial Heresy as the royal science of becoming God.

The Ascendancy of the Scientific Dictatorship: Illuminating the Occult Origin of Darwinism, Phillip D. Collins, Feb. 24, 2005

“Is the flesh “BAD”... No I say.. but it is not “the Truth”.. for we are spirit(s)..
Evil spirits will choose the flesh.. to identify with it..
Good ones will choose to seek further..
Maybe, finding the “Truth”..

Spirited: There speaks a Gnostic psychic (matter-dwelling spirit) who aspires to be “born again” as a pneumatic, or immortal matter-free spirit.

Historically, Gnostics have been of two variants: materialist monists and neo-Platonist monists.

For the former, salvation is from all things spiritual, as made clear by the author’s brief timeline. For the latter, salvation is from matter.

Both views coalesce around the idea that Jahweh is the creator of evil. To the materialists as Creator of the immortal souls they seek to rid themselves of as well as of the entire order of being. To the pneumatics, Jahweh or perhaps an army of evil angels are guilty of creating the evil matter in which the pneumatic’s “spirit” (bit of soul) has been trapped.

In this view, salvation is through gnosis, that is, in remembering “who and what we really are,” to use your own words hosepipe. Gnostic pneumatics are spirits housed in “body suits” who know “we are spirits...and always will be” once “we” are reabsorbed into the one-thing...the impersonal “good” god-force.

Contemporary Gnostics, whether materialist or idealist also coalesce around the idea that there are two forces at work in the world. The immanentist god-force or energy of “good” and the force of darkness. Materialist Gnostics identified God the Father as the “god-force of evil” and satan as the god-force-of-good who liberated mankind from Yahweh. Idealist Gnostics (pneumatics) agree but identify God the Father as the Spirit-of-Evil and Satan as the Spirit-of-Good.

Hosepipe’s Manicheanism is seen in his claim that only “evil spirits are seduced by the flesh.. or bewitched by it.. indentified with it..” These “evil spirits” are the somatics, the lowest order of the three types of human beings as well as some of the psychics, or matter-dwelling spirits who have become “bewitched” by flesh.

The “fall” was not into sin, but into “matter.” Thus Gnostics are not sinners and have no need of a redeeming Saviour.

[ I meant to add that for Gnostic materialists the “fall” was into private property, which of course is “matter.” ]

Orthodox chistians have a definite problem with “matter”...
Its hard to merge matter and spirit into an organized system.. as memes..
It starts with axioms concerning the body and the spirit..
AND cute formulas to explain it all..

Jesus never forbade denominations or sects.. or even heretics..
He never used the term heretic.. but he did use the term sheep pen..

I suppose heretic is determined by which side of the sheep pen you’re looking from..
That must be why? Jesus called them OUT of the sheep pen in John ch 10..

Nice verses but as I was saying who and what are “you”?.. What are “you” that a Spirit can dwell in “it”?.. Does the Spirit dwell in flesh or spirit?..

I am all and yes.

The very fact that you even ask those questions reveals your total and complete lack of understanding of spiritual truth and reality, that you don't have a clue what being born again in the Biblical sense of the word means.

The problem is, you need to be born again GOD'S way, not by some philosophical construct based on alternate definitions of terms. Simply being *born again* as in the reformation or self-awareness that non-Christian philosophies espouse is NOT adequate to attain salvation.

[ Simply being *born again* as in the reformation or self-awareness that non-Christian philosophies espouse is NOT adequate to attain salvation. ]

Like I’ve been saying.. born again is not a mental decision..
But it is a metaphorical Allusion to something else..

What is that something?.. is the sixty -four dollar question..
I see it as an identity change from one reality to another..
From a fleshly(temporal) worldview to another.. say an eternal worldview..

I’ve studied most major christian orthodox views.. and see problems with them all..
Nicodemus had a point.. how can you be born again?..
“Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit”- Jesus..

Are they both producing “matter”.. what does “birth” signify?..
-and/OR- is spiritual re-birth a matter of identity.. An identity change..

Before Jesus was born in the flesh, did God have flesh?..
Does God have flesh Now?.. Does God even need flesh?..
Flesh in the New Testament is portrayed in a negative fashion..
Flesh in the old testament(and the new) is metaphorically symbolized as “the WORM”..

The “worm” symbolizes metamorphosis.. so theres room for identity change..
maybe even actual change of form and/or identity.. a quale..
I see “darkly” thru illusion and allusion.. maybe you don’t

The qualia of being born again.. may not be mental or physical.. but spiritual..
Nobody (and I mean nobody) really knowing what the spirit/Spirit is, is left with faith..
Faith that it(born again experience) happened at all..

UNLESS it is just an identity change.. which is what was needed anyway..
You know; seeking after spiritual matters instead of fleshly pursuits.

“hosepipe: Theres no doubt about tho.. I am a heretic..”

Of all the spiritual foundations on which this nation was based, the mind/body dualism unique to Christian theism is of supreme importance, for on its basis, and its basis only arise our individual rights and freedoms, self-government, etc. As soon as we turn away from the living, transcendent Triune Creator, we unwittingly turn back to the only remaining “religion,”...nature. By any name, Buddhism, Hinduism, Gnosticism, materialism, Marxist Communism, evolutionism, Hermeticism, Theosophy, New Age, wicca, Liberal Christianity, etc.——all are constructs of nature religion, and therefore are variants of monism, discussed here in previous posts.

The America of the founding generation is fast disappearing for the reason that increasing numbers of Americans are, in the words of Hosepipe, heretics. Having rejected America’s founding faith they have either wittingly or unwittingly turned back to nature..to monism with its talk of collective consciousness, solidarity, army of one, ‘it takes a village,’ sustainability, green environmentalism, secularism, and egalitarianism (sameness).

America’s crisis is spiritual, for all of America’s increasing numbers of “heretics” cannot and will not support what they no longer believe in. Their souls have been taken captive by modernist ideologies and immobilized by the insidious apathy of unbelief, and though they can sense with mounting apprehension the coming implosion of America, they are helpless to do anything about it.

Like fiery darts, niggling fears have penetrated the darkness of the heretics minds. They ask:

If enlightened progress is liberty from God the Father, then why is it leading us into ruination and slavery? Why are we beset by nameless fears, especially the fear of falling into nothingness? And if authentic Christians are so backward and unscientific, why is it that they are the only ones not immobilized by apathy? Why are they, who we heretics hold in contempt, the only ones who are willing to fight? And why is it that we who believe ourselves to be scientific and forward-thinking come off as double-thinking irrational sophists while authentic Christians actually engage in rational discourse?

A particularly aggressive and snarky rant!... I like it..

However; you have presented "strawmen" as questions....
The strawmen divert from the conversation.. as a diversion..
As I've presented, "We see what we see".. therefore you see what you see..
As I did somewhat the same for many years.. much the same dogma..

Once leaving the "sheep pen".. and entering "the pasture".. I see things differently now.... (John ch 10)
However; I do not condemn you(or others) from the Cargo Cultic experience.. it may be needed..
No matter the cargo the rituals and ceremony's are similar..

The committee of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit serves a metaphorical purpose.. to explain God.. Why Not?.. We need something to explain the unexplainable.. The ineffable.. meme needs(maybe demands) a way of expression.. The bible serves that purpose handily..

Your axiomatic view of it(bible) is orthodox.. but being unorthodox is allowed.. Like Paul, who became unorthodox.. Like the rest of the Jewish apostles who became unorthodox.. Putting God in a box is capturing "the Wind".. You end up with a box of nothing.. i.e. chasing "dust devils"..

This convo with you and metmom.. is entertaining..
My hope is you are entertained too..

My "visions" from God has, alas, made me unorthodox.. as well..
Mentally grasping something is important BUT "seeing" it is wonderful..

However; you have presented “strawmen” as questions

Spirited: “We accept our mortality as best we can and try to get used to the idea of nothingness. We try not to obsess about it.”

“What can people hope for who have never believed in God or who have ceased believing in him? Nothing-—nothing beyond the ‘darkest reaches of death,’...which means that all our hopes for this life...run up against the ultimate nothingness: it engulfs all, joy and misery alike....It condemns us to seeing life as tragic-—or if we seek oblivion, as entertainment.”

These observations and confessions are those of Andre Comte-Sponville, one of France’s preeminent contemporary atheist philosophers in his best-seller “The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality.”

As Sponville grapples with his despair, and tries to find an answer to it, he unwittingly and sometimes openly confesses his unrelenting fears. The horrifying sense that “nothingness” waits just below his feet is particularly frightening for him.

Sponville’s book was understandably popular with the atheist/heretics crowd. All no doubt hoped for some “good news” but received none, unless hopes were pinned upon Sponville’s maundering ruminations about the “spirituality” he proposes to invent.

Yes, you have left the sheep-pen, as you like to remind all who will listen. But like Sponville, what you now “see” is “nothingness.”

[ Yes, you have left the sheep-pen, as you like to remind all who will listen. But like Sponville, what you now “see” is “nothingness.”]

Interesting view, you have, culminating from these latest posts..
You operate on weird wavelenghs..

Since Jesus came to make literally ALL religion(on this planet) Obsolete, and did..
One would think an atheist would "thank him"..

The secret is...... atheism is a sheep pen that houses GOATS..
A religion of people that hate religion..

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