Posted on 07/08/2011 1:44:03 PM PDT by Colofornian
...David Hyrum Smith...youngest son of...LDS prophet, Joseph Smith...returned to a mission to Utah...Reorganized church prophet, Joseph Smith III, who the letter was addressed to, must have regretted extending the call, writes Valerie Tippetts Avery, author of “From Mission to Madness: Last Son of the Mormon Prophet...” To young David...the mission...served to convince himself...that he had spent years angrily refuting — that his father...preached and practiced polygamy.
...David...Smith took his...skepticism...further, arguing against...dogma that man can only seek important further knowledge from a selected prophet. This doubt struck at a key doctrine of both churches. He wrote: “If faith unto salvation was an eternal principle and true, it could be discovered and demonstrated so as to be of general benefit as the law of gravitation or the rules of mathematics. But as it comes to us it makes us subservient to our falable (sic) fellow Man for eternal life, a most absurd proposition. But you again might speak God has revealed himself. But here again is an absurdity our fellow man brings us a revelation, and we are only guided by our faith in him. We do not know he has had this revelation and eternal salvation depends upon our faith in our fellow man and his revelation. Unjust and absurd.”
...David Smith...pointed out the inconsistency of ascribing belief based on one man’s claim of divine prophecy. For every Joseph Smith, he told his brother, there were Brigham Young, “Spiritualists” and Strangites” (an offshoot of Mormonism).
Young Smith’s ideas could be dismissed as heresy...by rigid believers...Any follower of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints…should acknowledge... inconsistencies demanded…which are:
• ...belief is required without presentable evidence...
• ...for every claim of a Joseph Smith or a Thomas Monson, there are thousands of similar claims from prophets with hundreds of millions of adherents...
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.standard.net ...
Interesting content:
First of all, the article mentions that David Hyrum Smith was the "last son" of Joseph Smith, Jr.'s...But was he (given all the wives he took, especially in the three years prior to Joseph Smith, Jr.'s death?)
#2, the article points out that this youngest acknowledged son of Joseph Smith -- David Hyrum Smith -- became a member of the reorganized (RLDS) church which split from the Brigham Young Utah Mormons. As a member, his brother, Joseph Smith III -- who served as RLDS "prophet" -- sent David Hyrum Smith as a "missionary" to Utah to try to convert the Utah Mormons to the Missourian RLDS!
In that process, David Hyrum Smith discovered the truth that so many RLDS Missourians were in denial for the longest of time: That Joseph Smith preached and practiced polygamy! (They blamed that on Brigham, vs. acknowledging the truth of history)
Young David Hyrum Smith discovered that even his own family could not be believed on the claims they were making (that Joseph Smith, Jr. wasn't a preaching/practicing polygamist!)
#3...well, I'll cover that next post...
I thought Free Republic was a conservative activism forum. Can’t you just post your stuff on a blog somewhere? If anyone is interested, they can go there and read it. Here, it is just spam. The country is going down the crapper, and I just don’t care about Mormonism, Catholicism or Unitarian Universalism, for that matter.
Just saying...
From the column: ...David...Smith took his...skepticism...further, arguing against...dogma that man can only seek important further knowledge from a selected prophet. This doubt struck at a key doctrine of both churches. He wrote: “If faith unto salvation was an eternal principle and true, it could be discovered and demonstrated so as to be of general benefit as the law of gravitation or the rules of mathematics. But as it comes to us it makes us subservient to our falable (sic) fellow Man for eternal life, a most absurd proposition. But you again might speak God has revealed himself. But here again is an absurdity our fellow man brings us a revelation, and we are only guided by our faith in him. We do not know he has had this revelation and eternal salvation depends upon our faith in our fellow man and his revelation. Unjust and absurd.”
Bingo. Joseph Smith's own youngest acknowledged son -- David Hyrum Smith -- realized what happens once his own father & the Mormon church reduced everything down to a mousetrap filter of having to believe just one man! He called it "unjust and absurd" that we have a non-divine being like his father, Joseph Smith, claim that "we are ONLY guided by our faith IN HIM. We do not know he has had this revelation and eternal salvation depends upon our faith in our fellow man and his revelation. Unjust and absurd."
From the column: ...David Smith...pointed out the inconsistency of ascribing belief based on one man’s claim of divine prophecy. For every Joseph Smith, he told his brother, there were Brigham Young, “Spiritualists” and Strangites” (an offshoot of Mormonism).
Yup. Multiple false prophets all making claims to being "prophets." (And here Mormons have the gall to repeatedly claim that with all the Protestant sects and denominations, we don't know which to follow...Yet the same thing is true with all the claims to prophecy!...At least, there's been more agreement among the Christian denominations on the key doctrines than all the offshoots of Joseph Smith!)
From the column: Young Smith’s ideas could be dismissed as heresy...by rigid believers...Any follower of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints…should acknowledge... inconsistencies demanded…which are: • ...belief is required without presentable evidence... • ...for every claim of a Joseph Smith or a Thomas Monson, there are thousands of similar claims from prophets with hundreds of millions of adherents...
Indeed. The Mormons, by the focus of a Mormon journalist, are inconsistent. No evidence required that Smith was a "prophet." And no distinction of such a claim than that made by Muhammad, who was illiterate.
Bears repeating. Mormonism is all about feelings with no FACTS, EVIDENCE, or LOGICAL ARGUMENT to support its wild claims of truth.
“I thought Free Republic was a conservative activism forum. Can’t you just post your stuff on a blog somewhere? If anyone is interested, they can go there and read it. Here, it is just spam. The country is going down the crapper, and I just don’t care about Mormonism, Catholicism or Unitarian Universalism, for that matter.”
If it’s all that bad, why are you wasting time in the RELIGION forum???
It is.
And near the top of numerous FR pages is this phrase -- easily readible to all but the illiterate & blind:
Welcome to Free Republic, America's exclusive site for GOD<>/b>, Family, Country, Life & Liberty conservatives!
Maybe your blinders are so built-in that when you see the word "GOD" these days, you just pass right by it?
Did you also notice that "God" is listed first? (Or did that, too, miss your scan?)
Can’t you just post your stuff on a blog somewhere? If anyone is interested, they can go there and read it.
You are posting in the "Religion" section of FR. Did that also miss your astounding observation skills? Did you even know a "Religion" section existed in FR?
Nobody has shanghai-ed you to come on into the Religion Forum, have they? Held you at gunpoint or something? Right?
If you don't like religion, God, or anything like that, 'tis easy 'nough to avoid such forums, isn't it?
Exactly. The key claims of Christianity -- are things that had the Jerusalem Gazette been around circa 30 A.D. -- would have covered: The death on the cross of Jesus Christ; the empty tomb & claims of His resurrection while appearing to around 500 individuals...& claims of His ascension.
That's why Christianity focuses on the "Good News" -- the literal meaning of the word "Gospel." It's NEWS...not just "Good dogma based upon blind faith."
The apostle Paul told the Corinthian church that if Jesus wasn't resurrected, that we were still in our sin and to be pitied among all men as having an empty faith.
Even though newspapers were around when Smith said this "vision" appeared to him, we don't even see Smith discussing it until well after the Book of Mormon is published. And his accounts changed so much that even many of the Lds leaders reference only angels appearing to Joseph Smith. Not God. Not Jesus Christ. Even the official Mormon "scripturized" account in the Pearl of Great Price doesn't mention God or Jesus name as the "personages" that appeared to him.
Then logically; why aRE you wasting YOUR time even commenting on it?
As a conservative site, Free Republic is pro-God, pro-life, pro-family, pro-Constitution, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-gun, pro-limited government, pro-private property rights, pro-limited taxes, pro-capitalism, pro-national defense, pro-freedom, and-pro America. We oppose all forms of liberalism, socialism, fascism, pacifism, totalitarianism, anarchism, government enforced atheism, abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, racism, wacko environmentalism, judicial activism, etc. We also oppose the United Nations or any other world government body that may attempt to impose its will or rule over our sovereign nation and sovereign people. We believe in defending our borders, our constitution and our national sovereignty.
Whiny anti-religionist placemarker.
Beg to disagree, but I find this post very interesting.
As do I. ;-)
Then stay off the Religion forum. We have one for a reason.
And people like you who don’t care about faith are a good part of the reason this country is in the mess its in.
A lot of us do, that's why some get hundreds of replies.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
The authgor doesnt seem t5o point out that Breiggie Young treated the Smith boys with contempt when they finally went to Utah as adults
He made sure they found out all the nuanses anmd ugly bits of their fathers adulterous past ajnd the truth about polygamy
Thjeir Mom Emma hale Smith had kept the truth from them and even lied to herself for years after5 Joeys death...
Briggie Young was a mean spiteful creature and didnt hesitate to take his revenge out on Emmas sons for the slight he felt she had done him in refusing to go to Utah as one of his extra “wives” after Joey got his silly self killed in a gunfight and jail break..
Everyone needs a place to civilly discuss things. How do we psychologically deal with 24/7 news of corruption, debauchery, sedition, crime, et al.
I would go to the house of autism for some sense if this were the case.
We all know the nation is going down the crapper, but we are fighting for it and carrying on life at the same time. Cheers
As a Born Again Mormon Christian I see that you have the utmost respect for us LDS types.
Well, freedom of speech is what this country is all about. As my daddy once said, bless his heart, if ya find a blabber mouth spewin’ half truths like a drunken sailor spits tebacce, then keep movin on tain’t worth yer time.
Thanks there Nana
Boy can I put you up in a virtual debate with the late Hugh Nibley. He would probably drink 10 barrels of whiskey if you win.
This is indeed a fascinating thread article.
As a Born Again Mormon Christian I see that you have the utmost respect for us LDS types.
- - - - -
You cannot be Born Again (in the Evangelical sense) AND be a Mormon (at least not active). The two are mutually exclusive. You are either a Born Again Chrsitian, saved by grace through faith alone, or you are LDS and trapped in a system of works while trying to earn your way to the Celestial kingdom.
How do I know? Been there done that, read the Book (of Mormon), saw the (Endowment) movie, wore the holy underwear.
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