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True Soldiers in the Church Militant
http://www.seattlecatholic.com/article_20011123_True_Soldiers_in_the_Church_Militant.html ^ | 2001 | Peter W. Miller

Posted on 06/30/2011 4:49:27 PM PDT by stfassisi

True Soldiers in the Church Militant


King St. Louis IX of France led the seventh and eighth crusades. He enforced strict military regulations against killing noncombatants and prisoners, holding the conversion and baptism of infidels among the highest of priorities. As a child, his mother would often say to him: "I love you my dear son, as much as a mother can love her child; but I would rather see you dead at my feet than that you should commit a mortal sin."

Spiritual warfare in modern times

The body of faithful which comprises the Catholic Church is divided into three parts: the Church Triumphant (souls in heaven), the Church Suffering (souls in purgatory) and the Church Militant (faithful on earth).1 The Church Militant has been defined as:

It is useful to consider the military metaphors contained in such a definition. As Catholics, our lives should not be seen as "business as usual" but warfare — "constant warfare". We are not regular citizens or noncombatants, but soldiers in the war against Satan; a war which has both spiritual and physical dimensions.

All soldiers are called to a particular cause, traditionally the glory of a king, emperor or state. As Catholics soldiers, we are called to fight for the glory of Christ the King and the triumph of His will. We must follow His commandments, receive His sacraments and carry out His directive to convert all nations. While a worldly soldier is concerned with physical warfare, a Christian soldier is involved in a struggle infinitely more important — the spiritual battle for the salvation of souls.

Enemies of a Christian soldier

Just as "soldier" and "warfare" take on different meanings in the context of the Church Militant, so does the term "enemy". The only enemy of Christians is and has always been Satan, but because of his powers, he must be fought both internally and externally (or spiritually and naturally). He is our spiritual enemy when we tempts each of us internally and our natural enemy when he works through other men to subvert the will of God. Since, he is capable of deceiving and tempting every person on earth, he can make accomplices or slaves of men without their explicit knowledge. Such men can be referred to as our "human enemies".

This is an important distinction to make because if Satan rather than an individual human is the true enemy, how we face battle and evaluate victory are very different. Unlike worldly soldiers, we are commanded by our Lord to love our enemies.


St. Michael the Archangel has been battling Satan since the Fall of the Angels.

Therefore, we must always seek that which is best for our human enemies — not their worldly comforts or success, but their eternal salvation. This is not to say the only end to our efforts is conversion since a "victory" occurs every time the desires of Satan is thwarted. And since his desires are always opposed to God's will, a victory is also each instance in which His divine will is done. Both Christ and His Mother have repeatedly told their children that all sins (even by non-Catholics) offend their respective Sacred and Immaculate Hearts. Christ's soldiers must fight to prevent any and every such offense, even if the offenders are not converted. Conversion however remains the surest and most effective way to ensure such offensives will not be committed again.

The human enemies of the Church can usually be divided into two groups — public and private enemies. Public enemies openly declare war on and attempt to carry out the destruction of the Faith or the faithful. Historically, such human enemies have included Jews, Muslims, Protestants, Freemasons and Communists.

Private enemies are those who either do not admit to (secret enemies) or do not realize (deluded enemies) their destructive intentions. These are the most difficult enemies to recognize, let alone fight. They are usually outwardly benign or "well-intentioned" people and are comprised mostly of schismatics, heretics, liberals, modernists and humanists. Their ranks include men and women, young and old, clergy and laity who cloak themselves in acts of human charity and prideful piety which only serve to confuse and seduce others. They are enemies of the Church because they spread defiance of God's laws and undermine his Church through heresy, disobedience or indifference.

These are the human enemies Satan puts in our path and how we choose to respond to them is what defines the true soldiers in the Church Militant.

The Church Militant and the modern world


Joseph M. Scheidler is National Director of the Pro-Life Action League and one of the few modern martyrs in North America. His organization has faced lawsuits from the National Organization for Women (NOW) under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) Act — legislation designed to combat organized crime.

Needless to say, today's Church Militant is plagued with indifference. Too many soldiers of Christ would rather not fight their enemies because the immediate costs in comfort and human respect are too high. When they witness God being insulted through blasphemy, heresy or denial of His law, they are content to remain silent, denying their love for Him. When questioned directly, they may defend God but only in an equivocal way, depending on how much the opinion of the interrogator means to them.

This is not a "constant warfare", it is a surrender! Soldiers don't sit hiding in the bushes, waiting for someone to accidentally discover them before coming out to fight. They know exactly where the battlefield is and go in earnest to join the war effort. Everyone they make contact with knows not only that they are soldiers but that for which they fight.

Since the beginning of time, Satan has successfully used human respect and pride to tempt the faithful into silence and defiance. How many marriages have been destroyed, profanities been committed, children been aborted, blasphemies been encouraged and souls been eternally lost to Satan because people who knew right from wrong kept silent, putting too much value in human respect? They are more worried about being seen as different or "intolerant" or childish in the eyes of sinners than virtuous in the eyes of God. However subtle this brand of "persecution" may be, the struggle between God's will and man's has always existed. It is why Christ told us in the Sermon on the Mount:

And repeated by St. John Vianney:

Catholic soldiers cannot remain silent in the face of evil and they cannot run from it in hope for better days. We must fight for the Faith at all times, especially when we are facing persecution. Our human enemies need to know that we hold and defend the Truth, even if they hate us for it. The history of Christendom is filled with saints and martyrs who chose torture and death rather than denying Christ or His Church. They could have saved their lives by going along with the popular errors of the day — be it paganism, Freemasonry, Communism or Islam, but they refused and were eternally rewarded. As beautifully expressed in the words of Blessed Sister Marie-Anne Vaillot, a martyr of the French Revolution who refused to take a masonic oath:


St. Joan of Arc, the Maid of Orleans was an inspirational soldier during the Hundred Years War. She was guided by angels and saints from heaven but was burned at the stake after a mock trial. Among her "crimes" was a refusal to adequately submit to the "Church Militant", a phrase with which she was unfamiliar.

These days, in most Western countries such courage and dedication is almost non-existent, even though the consequences are much less severe. Many Catholics will deny Christ rather than risk feeling "awkward" or "uncomfortable" in the presence of pagans. They care more about what the faithless think of them than what God does. How many Catholics today would be willingly burned at the stake rather than deny their Faith? What's the use of forcing a denial that is gladly and repeatedly welcomed almost every day?

The dangers of supernatural warfare

Getting caught up in battles against heretics and abortionists, it's easy and dangerous to lose sight of the supernatural aspect of the conflict. Satan and the powers of darkness are fighting to ruin every mortal soul, especially those devoted to Christ. This battle isn't just between the Catholics and non-Catholics, but between good and evil, Christ and Satan.

As such, the ways we can fall are varied. Not only can we be defeated through our own tendencies toward doubt or indifference, but also by giving into the zeal of the battle. Too often, humble soldiers fighting for the will of God give way to the vices of pride and anger. We must not lose sight of the true enemy (Satan) and the true goal (the triumph of God's will). In fighting one error, we must not fall victim to another.

Since this is a supernatural battle, we must use the supernatural weapons heaven has given to us. The Mother of God has given us the Most Holy Rosary and the Brown Scapular to assist in our mission. We also have the teaching of the Church Fathers and Catechism of Trent which prepare us to recognize error when it is encountered. We have the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass which is hated by Satan above all, so much so that modern times have seen it subjected to his destructive power. We have been given the other sacraments which give us access to the most precious gift of grace, especially the sacrament of Penance.

Above all else, those fighting for the Christ's Church must never neglect regular prayer and sacrifice. To do so is to fall in to the very errors of the naturalists against which we fight. We cannot inadvertently become allies in the propagation of supernatural indifference. For it is only through the mercy of God and in a State of Grace that we will prevail.

Ancient advice for modern times


St. Martin de Tours, a Roman soldier born of pagan parents would go on to become a monk, a bishop and the Patron Saint of France.

For a reminder on how Catholics are called to live their lives and relate to the world, we will always be able to turn to the timeless words of St. Justin Martyr:



TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: catholic; soldiersofchrist
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To: Elendur

“(and, it also said “Jews”, but i noted NO ONE objected to that...)”

Because without Christ no one gains Heaven and with the exception of Messianic Jews, Jews do not accept Christ. No one has hope of Heaven unless Christ is their personal Savior. Regardless of any good works they do, great things, membership in a specific denomination - be it Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Baptist, or whatever — no assurance of Heaven whatsoever without Christ.


41 posted on 06/30/2011 9:40:40 PM PDT by JLLH
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To: Elendur

“but, the original statement, did NOT say ALL were enemies. (and, it also said “Jews”, but i noted NO ONE objected to that...)”

That bothered me too, but I chose to respond to the freeper who was offended. Now that you’ve raised the point, I will say this:

IMHO, the Old Covenant is still valid. God is not allah who abrogates itself. A promise by God is valid from when it was made to both the start and end of time.

This from a believer and (admittedly failed) follower of the New Covenant. But I’m trying...


42 posted on 06/30/2011 9:41:02 PM PDT by piytar (The Obama Depression. Say it early, say it often. Why? Because it's TRUE.)
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To: Elendur

Sorry, I meant flawed, not failed...


43 posted on 06/30/2011 9:45:23 PM PDT by piytar (The Obama Depression. Say it early, say it often. Why? Because it's TRUE.)
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To: piytar

If the Jews are to gain Heaven it is through Christ - “For there is no other name under Heaven by which we can be saved.” There is no alternative route for Jews — or anyone else.


44 posted on 06/30/2011 9:46:43 PM PDT by JLLH
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To: D-fendr
The Church is right or wrong compared to YOUR interpretation of Holy Scripture. To get to the true Christian faith, do we just accede to BB, or do we take a vote of Protestants? Doesn’t work, FRiend, except as a Church of individuals and a faith of individuals. There’s no Church there.

No, it is NOT my interpretation at all! And I resent that excuse being thrown into the faces of anyone who refuses to bow the knee to everything that the Roman Catholic Church demands. We are ALL to hold to the clear teachings of Scripture and they are indeed clear enough to anyone who cares to read and study them for themselves. We do not need a "theologian of The Church" leaning over our shoulder to tell us that what we read for ourselves doesn't mean what it clearly does. Are we saved by grace, yes or no? Are we saved by faith, yes or no? Well let's see what Scripture says:

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

There is no need to have an "interpreter" - unless you don't speak English - to understand what the Bible says about the gift of Eternal Life. There are hundreds more such verses that make the plan of salvation - the Gospel - crystal clear. Please, let's not bother with that tired old "it's your own interpretation" saw. We all can see that God did not leave such a critical doctrine clouded in mystery.

I hope you have a restful night.

45 posted on 06/30/2011 9:48:32 PM PDT by boatbums (my cat erased my tagline)
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To: Elendur
I appreciate your generosity of spirit in accepting others as Christian brothers and sisters. I am deeply sorry you have had to face such ungenerous actions of those who claim to know the Lord. My sense is that they either do not know him the way they should or they are sadly misguided. No one was ever won to Christ by hate or by force.

I also hope you realize that when I criticize the doctrines of your church, I am not attacking you personally. I fear many here are unable to tell the difference.

46 posted on 06/30/2011 9:53:35 PM PDT by boatbums (my cat erased my tagline)
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To: Elendur
And now, when there are almost 2 billion Muslims, is when we MOST need Christians of all churches, to unite and say “Jesus is Lord”.

Amen, Elendur ... AMEN!

47 posted on 06/30/2011 9:59:15 PM PDT by annie laurie (All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost)
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To: boatbums

“No, it is NOT my interpretation at all! And I resent that excuse being thrown into the faces of anyone who refuses to bow the knee to everything that the Roman Catholic Church demands. We are ALL to hold to the clear teachings of Scripture and they are indeed clear enough to anyone who cares to read and study them for themselves. We do not need a “theologian of The Church” leaning over our shoulder to tell us that what we read for ourselves doesn’t mean what it clearly does. Are we saved by grace, yes or no? Are we saved by faith, yes or no? Well let’s see what Scripture says:

Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

There is no need to have an “interpreter” - unless you don’t speak English - to understand what the Bible says about the gift of Eternal Life. There are hundreds more such verses that make the plan of salvation - the Gospel - crystal clear. Please, let’s not bother with that tired old “it’s your own interpretation” saw. We all can see that God did not leave such a critical doctrine clouded in mystery.”

AMEN!!


48 posted on 06/30/2011 10:01:59 PM PDT by JLLH
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To: boatbums

“I also hope you realize that when I criticize the doctrines of your church, I am not attacking you personally. I fear many here are unable to tell the difference.”

Quite true and very well put.


49 posted on 06/30/2011 10:03:32 PM PDT by JLLH
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To: JLLH

Yup, through Christ. But who is Christ? He is both part and the whole of the Trinity incarnate: Fully man, but also fully God, Himself, and the Holy Spirit.

So a promise by God in the Old Covenant is a promise by Christ. What, He wasn’t born yet? Irrelevant, for Christ is fully God and therefor the Alpha and Omega (in our terms, the start and end, outside of time).


50 posted on 06/30/2011 10:05:17 PM PDT by piytar (The Obama Depression. Say it early, say it often. Why? Because it's TRUE.)
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To: piytar

And those OT followers were those who, like Abraham, “believed” and it was “counted to them as righteousness”.

Having said that, Christ came to fulfill the law. There is no alternate route to Heaven for Jews or anyone else - only faith in Him. One cannot reject His son and gain Heaven because one has done good works, lived a good life, has membership in a specific religion/denomination, whatever.


51 posted on 06/30/2011 10:09:14 PM PDT by JLLH
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To: Elendur; piytar
but, i do not include Luther in that. if you read his OWN words, he is a hater of Jews beyond compare

Most Baptists I know, respect Jews and Israel. but if one like Luther, says their houses should be burned, etc., then yes, i DO call them an enemy of the Church of Jesus.

Then, I'm afraid, you will have to condemn one of those adored in this article posted. King Louis IX of France, AKS St. Louis was guilty of the same things against Jews. From:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_IX_of_France

Louis IX took very seriously his mission as "lieutenant of God on Earth", with which he had been invested when he was crowned in Rheims. Thus, in order to fulfill his duty, he conducted two crusades, and even though they were unsuccessful, they contributed to his prestige. Contemporaries would not have understood if the king of France did not lead a crusade to the Holy Land. In order to finance his first crusade Louis ordered the expulsion of all Jews engaged in usury and the confiscation of their property, for use in his crusade. However, he did not cancel the debts owed by Christians. One-third of the debts was forgiven, but the other two thirds were to be remitted to the royal treasury. Louis also ordered, at the urging of Pope Gregory IX, the burning in Paris in 1243 of some 12,000 manuscript copies of the Talmud and other Jewish books. Such legislation against the Talmud, not uncommon in the history of Christendom, was due to mediaeval courts' concerns that its production and circulation might weaken the faith of Christian individuals and threaten the Christian basis of society, the protection of which was the duty of any Christian monarch.

52 posted on 06/30/2011 10:18:32 PM PDT by boatbums (my cat erased my tagline)
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To: boatbums
No, it is NOT my interpretation at all

Who's then? Certainly you don't claim to speak for the Holy Spirit?

We are ALL to hold to the clear teachings of Scripture

According to...?

and they are indeed clear enough to anyone who cares to read and study them for themselves.

Arians, Nestorians Adoptionists, Gnostics, Docetists, Monarchists, Monophysites, Monothelites, Modalists, Subordinationsts, Donatists, Pelagians, Calvinists, Arminians, Lutherans, Pentecostals, JWs, LDS… All care enough to read and study Scripture for themselves. And arrive at radically different theology, very different views of God and Christ, very different soteriology, yet they all claim the same authority as you.

Every possible conclusion from Scripture has appeared and continues to appear and have followers. Seriously, do we vote?

Are we saved by grace, yes or no? Are we saved by faith, yes or no?

Faith in what? That we were predestined to be Elect? Even those who agree on salvation by grace through faith disagree on what that means - enough to fill thousands of posts on this site alone.

We all can see that God did not leave such a critical doctrine clouded in mystery.

Correct. Because he did not leave it to each individual to arrive at their own theology, He established a Church with authority. Which is the only way to have one faith, one Church.

Otherwise you have what we plainly see all around us today. Many faiths, many beliefs, many churches, many individuals - all claiming the authority of Scripture.

Thanks for your reply and God bless...

53 posted on 06/30/2011 10:21:52 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: JLLH

“Having said that, Christ came to fulfill the law. There is no alternate route to Heaven for Jews or anyone else - only faith in Him. One cannot reject His son and gain Heaven because one has done good works, lived a good life, has membership in a specific religion/denomination, whatever.”

Works? Useless without faith. A so-called good life in human terms absent God? Less than meaningless.

Christ fulfilled the law. Well, what law? The law of the Old Testament. That in itself validates the Old Testament’s veracity. Otherwise, why would Christ fulfill it?

Christ is God. I follow the New Covenant. Those who faithfully follow the Old also follow Christ, just not in name. Now, that’s a problem. I’ll leave it to God aka Christ aka G-d to sort that out.

The take away: I’d like to convince my Jewish friends that their law has been fulfilled, but I’m not too worried about them in the eternal story.

Jews in general? Those Jews who hate Christ - also know as secular Jews - fulfill neither Covenant. It’s no accident they support secularism, hate Israel (God’s promise), and support he who would subjugate us all. Those who believe in the Old Covenant and therefor God? It’s no accident they align with us in the spiritual war we are embroiled in.

Now, I’m still struggling with all this, and have an ongoing conversation with a Christian minister who knows the Bible inside and out about the issues. We agree Christ is the only way. We agree God doesn’t lie or abrogate Himself (cf islam and allah). This above is my (prob poorly stated) take away right now. That said, explicit and willing belief in Christ by name definitely is the path we should take. No argument there.


54 posted on 06/30/2011 10:34:47 PM PDT by piytar (The Obama Depression. Say it early, say it often. Why? Because it's TRUE.)
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To: D-fendr
Who's then? Certainly you don't claim to speak for the Holy Spirit?

I speak as the Holy Spirit has led me to understand the plain Scripture. It is so plain, a child can understand it. It is those who refuse to hear that Spirit of truth - who, by the way, Jesus said he would send for that very reason - and who twist and confuse the Scripture because of their own ignorance or evil intent, to their own destruction. So it is not a matter of "according to", because God made it clear both in his word and by illumination of the indwelling Holy Spirit of all those who come to faith in Christ.

Arians, Nestorians Adoptionists, Gnostics, Docetists, Monarchists, Monophysites, Monothelites, Modalists, Subordinationsts, Donatists, Pelagians, Calvinists, Arminians, Lutherans, Pentecostals, JWs, LDS… All care enough to read and study Scripture for themselves. And arrive at radically different theology, very different views of God and Christ, very different soteriology, yet they all claim the same authority as you.

Smokescreen. There is ONLY one Gospel. The good news that Jesus Christ came to save sinners and that whosoever believes in him will have eternal life. The different theologies about the Gospel don't count since there is only one true Gospel. As to the other points of disagreement, certainly there are differences. There are differences within your OWN church and always have been. The idea that a consensus patrium decided all the doctrines of the Catholic Church is simply a false statement. Some things from some "church doctors" were accepted and others weren't. Some never had unaminous consent and some of those very same people were later kicked out for heresy.

If the Roman Catholic Church is supposed to be "the, one, true church" established by Christ then explain all the false teachings and dogmas and debauchery that happened within that very same organization. Jesus said his church would prevail against the gates of hell so how did Satan get such a foothold within it at times? How come there are STILL deeply grievous and gross sins being committed BY the clergy today against children and other members? That "we are all sinners needing healing" explanation doesn't cut it when you have your highest leaders caught up in terrible crimes. You have a history of even Popes being involved with all kinds of sexual sins and debauchery so how can you claim this one "church" is THAT church Jesus described?

I hope you understand I am not attacking YOU, just that I am trying to explain that what Jesus said would exist HAS to be a spiritual, universal body and simply cannot be one organization alone and especially not one so mired in centuries of unChristian-like conduct.

All the other doctrines outside of the Gospel and what it entails definitely have divergent views, but I think it is not such a problem as you seem to think it is. Yes, some believe we are chosen before time began to be saved and there are Scriptures that seem to say that and there are other Scriptures that say we have free will to believe. I think it is really both and is outside our total comprehension. Does is really matter if they both agree that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ? So what that we don't all agree on how we worship? Do you really think the early churches across the continent all did everything the same in their services? Didn't they have their own customs and traditions? Aren't they ALLOWED that variety? I think what has happened over the years is some people have been convinced that they cannot know anything without THE CHURCH. That they are somehow not allowed to read and study the Bible for themselves and meditate upon it asking God for clarity and understanding. That is a shame because the closeness and intimacy with God can be missed if all we ever do is listen to what someone else says it says. Why pray "canned" prayers? Why not pray like you are talking to the one who loves you more than any human possibly can and who wants what is the BEST for your life?

There certainly is a role for the local church to be the gathering place for like-minded people so that they can edify each other and worship and glorify God together as well as learn his truths together. I think it is wrong to assume there is only one physical "super-church" that we must all join and bow to. The real church of Christ IS that spiritual one, that universal one and God knows those who are his and the gates of hell HAVE never prevailed against it and never will.

God bless you, too.

55 posted on 06/30/2011 11:07:47 PM PDT by boatbums (my cat erased my tagline)
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To: boatbums
Smokescreen. There is ONLY one Gospel.

And all those groups claim it. Do you think the differences there are minor?

explain all the false teachings and dogmas and debauchery that happened within that very same organization.

Not one of these sinners and debauchers are the Church. That's the point. The Church is not any man.

Some things from some "church doctors" were accepted and others weren't. Some never had unaminous consent and some of those very same people were later kicked out for heresy.

And ditto the above.

You have a history of even Popes being involved with all kinds of sexual sins and debauchery

Ditto, ditto, ditto.

I'm curious, if this is your position then no sinner or debaucher can be the authority on Scripture and theology - so much for the Protestant Principle. If you have a problem with sinners, debauched individuals determining teaching then you should have a problem with each individual determining them - not with the Church.

Yes, some believe we are chosen before time began to be saved and there are Scriptures that seem to say that and there are other Scriptures that say we have free will to believe.

This is no little thing. Our faith in it's essence is who we are, who God is, and what our relationship to each other and God is and should be. The basics are radically different if you don't believe in free will and believe God's grace is not freely offered. Huge difference between a just and injust God and between what Christ's ministry was.

There certainly is a role for the local church to be the gathering place for like-minded people so that they can edify each other and worship and glorify God together as well as learn his truths together.

St. Paul was a bit more strict about what the Church is than you. E.g., what it means to not discern the Body in Holy Communion. He didn't teach this as a little disagreement.

I think it is wrong to assume there is only one physical "super-church" that we must all join and bow to.

The Church is the Body of Christ. You don't bow to it, you become One with Christ in the Body of Christ - as Jesus prayed in the garden.

The real church of Christ IS that spiritual one…

It is that, but it is also the Body of Christ, the Communion of Saints. It is apostolic and it has authority for teaching, as St. Paul and Peter and Thomas, etc. did.

It is not each individual, a Bible, and Christ. This is most clearly not what Jesus established or prayed for, for us.

My point is that your view would mean Christ failed from the get-go. You have no more authority than Calvin or the neighborhood Gnostic. There is no reasonable possibility of a Church holding the same basics of faith. It would be as foolish as if the founding fathers had decided to make one nation with each individual determining what the constitution meant. Imagine our nation if they had established that as a nation. Imagine Christianity if Christ had established this individual authority as His Church.

It just fails on its face; the failure is all around us and easily predictable. That's why Jesus did not establish your view of Church.

thanks again for your reply.

56 posted on 06/30/2011 11:42:57 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: boatbums; D-fendr
" ...what we read for ourselves doesn’t mean what it clearly does."

ROTFLMAO.

Dang, when arguing against purgatory the Sola Yourselfa crowd says different words in different verses even with clearly different contexts all mean the same thing and translation differences shouldn't be the focus of such a debate. When arguing against Peter as head of His Church, though, Christ using the same word twice in the same sentence suddenly makes translation issues paramount in order to avoid the clear meaning of the sentence. If they don't spin falsehoods about translation issues in that case they'd have to accept the Truth which undermines the core of their "by myself alone, through personal interpretation alone, of the book alone" heresy.

At best the phrase "clear meaning of the Scripture" is a smokescreen intended to make it seem like some degree of clarity exists when the convoluted "Lego Block Method of Scripture Interpretation" is being liberally applied. At worst, it's a deliberate attempt to divert attention away from what is clearly a lie and in no way supported by the Scriptures quoted by a particular Sola Yourselfa adherent.

57 posted on 07/01/2011 1:01:51 AM PDT by Rashputin (Obama is insane but kept medicated and on golf courses to hide it)
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To: dadgum; stfassisi; MarkBsnr; piytar
My 3 cents:
  1. it's wrong to club our non-Catholic Christian brethern with the likes of freemasons and commies -- the latter two are completely and utterly different. the first may disagree with the faith a little or a lot depending on which of the many groups we talk about, but they are the closest to orthodoxy (Catholic/Orthodox/Orientals/Assyrians) and are our Christian brethern

  2. Yes, they have attacked the faith, so that section of the statement is true, though the clubbing with the Fs and Cs is wrong

  3. dadgum seems to be earnestly seeking and following God, that is good, praise God

58 posted on 07/01/2011 1:12:21 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: dadgum
What I believe is that God is sovereign and that He will deal with each one of us individually, as it serves His purpose.

So your vision of God is a cosmic puppeteer?

So, because, from a human understanding, predestination and freewill seem to be opposites and mutually exclusive, it does not necessarily follow that to God they are such.

Doubletalk.

59 posted on 07/01/2011 4:46:38 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: dadgum
OSAS? Ha! It took me a moment to decode that one. Yes, because the faith that enables salvation is a gift from God. He saved me. I did not save myself.

God already saved you? Do you have evidence?

However, I am charged exercise discipline to draw near to Him daily and in all things, if I am to grow and mature and become the person that He desires I be. Salvation is a gift. Being a servant and growing in Him is a responsibility.

What do you think happens if you don't?

60 posted on 07/01/2011 4:48:03 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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