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To: piytar

And those OT followers were those who, like Abraham, “believed” and it was “counted to them as righteousness”.

Having said that, Christ came to fulfill the law. There is no alternate route to Heaven for Jews or anyone else - only faith in Him. One cannot reject His son and gain Heaven because one has done good works, lived a good life, has membership in a specific religion/denomination, whatever.


51 posted on 06/30/2011 10:09:14 PM PDT by JLLH
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To: JLLH

“Having said that, Christ came to fulfill the law. There is no alternate route to Heaven for Jews or anyone else - only faith in Him. One cannot reject His son and gain Heaven because one has done good works, lived a good life, has membership in a specific religion/denomination, whatever.”

Works? Useless without faith. A so-called good life in human terms absent God? Less than meaningless.

Christ fulfilled the law. Well, what law? The law of the Old Testament. That in itself validates the Old Testament’s veracity. Otherwise, why would Christ fulfill it?

Christ is God. I follow the New Covenant. Those who faithfully follow the Old also follow Christ, just not in name. Now, that’s a problem. I’ll leave it to God aka Christ aka G-d to sort that out.

The take away: I’d like to convince my Jewish friends that their law has been fulfilled, but I’m not too worried about them in the eternal story.

Jews in general? Those Jews who hate Christ - also know as secular Jews - fulfill neither Covenant. It’s no accident they support secularism, hate Israel (God’s promise), and support he who would subjugate us all. Those who believe in the Old Covenant and therefor God? It’s no accident they align with us in the spiritual war we are embroiled in.

Now, I’m still struggling with all this, and have an ongoing conversation with a Christian minister who knows the Bible inside and out about the issues. We agree Christ is the only way. We agree God doesn’t lie or abrogate Himself (cf islam and allah). This above is my (prob poorly stated) take away right now. That said, explicit and willing belief in Christ by name definitely is the path we should take. No argument there.


54 posted on 06/30/2011 10:34:47 PM PDT by piytar (The Obama Depression. Say it early, say it often. Why? Because it's TRUE.)
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