Posted on 06/29/2011 4:15:55 PM PDT by newheart
Rand changed my life. When I embraced her philosophy, Objectivism, the conversion was far more dramatic than my decision, several years later, to follow Jesus Christ—more dramatic, but in the end transitory. Yet Rand, the novelist, philosopher, and uncompromising atheist, inadvertently opened a door for the gospel. I don't believe dead people spin in their graves, but if they did and she could read these words, I imagine Rand would be twirling violently.
As many have noted, Rand's ethic of rational self-interest is incompatible with the gospel, and leads to social as well as spiritual disaster. "Most observers see Rand as a political and economic philosopher," wrote Gary Moore last year in Christianity Today. "I believe that she was first and foremost an anti-Christian philosopher." A six-foot dollar sign wreath towered over her casket, Moore pointed out, an icon of the false gospel she labored to proclaim. I agree entirely that Christianity and Objectivism are utterly incompatible. But my gratitude to Rand remains profound.
(Excerpt) Read more at christianitytoday.com ...
This is one of the best Objectivism posts on FR that I’ve ever read. Congratulations, and thank you.
I doubt he missed that stuff. Those would be things that, today, he would radically disagree with.
in my book Conservatism means conserving the best, the proven, that worth saving because it works well. So you might even say that Conservatism is not a political concept, but a concept that provides for freedom, the opportunity to flourish in peace! Under our Constitution and Bill of Rights America is unquestionably the most generous country because most of us value the Ten Commandments. Ayn Rand had nothing to do with Conservatism. And of course, the great commission is to give the gospel to all. It is up to the individual to choose. Then prayer becomes our duty to Christ.
Have you ever read “The Light and the Glory”, by Peter Marshall and David Emanuel? It is an amazing history of America from l492 forward which every American should read.
Beautifully written and extremely well documented there should be a space for it on every book shelf. You can order it from Borders.
Our country adopted a Constitution, and our early laws are based on the values written in the Holy Bible. Unfortunately, it requires a Godly people to keep it in effect, and as time has passed moore and more people have sadly become less Godly. So I maintain that Conservatism itself is based upon God’s laws.
Rand's philosophy of pigeonholing any thought of a power higher than Man as mysticism was/is her undoing. Her world view would ultimately lead us back to the Stone Age. How ironically lucky for the author to find salvation via Ann Rand . . .
Honestly, if you look at the numbers, and draw a line down the middle, if such a line can be drawn, there are more Christians on the side of the Democrats and Socialists in the U.S. than Christians on the side of Conservatism.
So if you have to render a verdict on what Christianity leads people to, it would seem that Christianity, based on the real numbers, leads people not to Conservatism, but to its opposite, socialism. Unfortunately. I wish it weren’t so, but it is.
“If you have the power, you rule. And if you don’t have the power, you are the ruled.”
That’s just a statement of fact, not a statement of fact according to Rand, but a statement of the world as it is, the “metaphysically given.”
If there were no God, how would you act?
Why would you act that way?
Why would that be ok?
There are those who say they are Christians, and those who are Christians. It’s easy enough to affiliate oneself with a church whose tenets you do not believe and attend twice a year or not at all. However, if you have ever encountered Christ as He is, you will follow Him, no matter how imperfectly.
Of the believing Christians, more would be small c conservative.
C.S. Lewis pointed out that a truly Christian society would offend both socialist and conservative, in that there would be a order and hierarchy in society, but no one would lack. Unfortunately, we are not going to get a Christian society in a world filled with fallen people; conservative values of property and family do the least harm and some good. What does the Tenth Commandment say but the respect other people’s property? What does the Fourth say but to honor your parents? Does not the Apostle Paul and Peter say that authorities are to be respected?
It’s not all “share the wealth or we’ll share it for you”.
There's plenty in Objectivism that's compatible with Christianity (not that Rand would have wanted it that way). Foremost is the idea that you are responsible for your life and for the lives of those to whom you freely obligate yourself.
Well said. There is plenty of overlap, and antagonism between overly dogmatic elements of either belief system is unnecessarily divisive, IMHO.
Just like the Founders' philosophy of classical liberalism may have been imperfect in practice, to a large degree the ideas themselves were bigger and more "perfect" than the flawed men who interpreted them.
I consider myself a Christian, as well as a Constitutionalist libertarian, and my belief in Christ and His religious philosophy does not preclude my embracing the many valid aspects of the primarily political philosophy espoused by Rand.
Thus, since Christianity and Objectivism belong to different philosophical categories, I do not find it difficult to synthesize the two into a coherent framework for living my Christian life as a free American.
To me, "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free" applies to both my spiritual and secular existence, and pursuit of these truths is an ongoing process of growth, rather than some static goal which is reached, after which no further progress occurs...
Good observation. It's ironic that a secular philosophy such as Marxism embraces many aspects of Christian philosophy, with the supremely fatal flaw, of course, of attempting to impose its tenets in an overtly authoritarian manner, justified, of course, by the ostensible collective will and interests of the People.
Imposing virtue is a perversion of Christian tenets, and is antithetical to free will itself. As author Dinesh D'Souza correctly noted, when the State coerces virtue from the people, then of course it is not virtue at all.
Such a system is neither sustainable nor practical, and history has shown that it invariably leads to Tyranny and murder. Yet many well-meaning people think that it just hasn't been implemented properly yet, and eventually we will get it right someday if we just keep tweaking it.
Of course, such nonsense is simply boob bait for bubbas...
The word I used was joyless not joyous..
How did you get your reply from what I wrote?
I agree for the most part, but I think that a major institution the justifies and perpetuates socialism in our society is the Christian religion (**broadly** understood to mean everyone that calls themselves a Christian.) You can get into the distinction of whether or not socialist Christians are Christians, and my intent is not to get into that debate, but only to point out that Christianity harbors and sustains a lot of socialism in the name of religion, and I think we should all be aware of that fact.
It’s also an important dialectical point in debating with the Left, who likes to set up the “Christian right-winger” vs. the “rest of us” false concept, because the truth is **most** Christians are not on the Right (unfortunately.) Saying I don’t believe in redistribution except to the extent that God says so does not get one off the hook for being a socialist, just because its in the name of God.
For those who are Christians, they should endeavor to purify their churches and their beliefs of socialism, if that is a part of the doctrine. Because socialism, by its very nature, is evil, and should have no place in *any* enlightened religion.
I think that they way one answers those questions is very important to man’s concept of why God must exist.
If God exists, then those questions are valid, but the answers to those questions raise some very interesting questions.
Your position, makes you a conservative - not an Objectivist.
Before anything existed, Almighty God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, was. He is. And when there is nothing left He ill be.
Our living, loving God never changes. His laws remain rock solid. His promises never fade away. There is no question about it. His promises are for you. Have you accepted Him?
I know. Part of my answer was a correction to your statement.
But you see, God IS. Christianity is not Socialism. Christianity is loving kindness to others as we serve our God. Socialism serves only the elite, and all the people are but slaves to the elite. All the power lies at the top with the elite, thus Socialism is Evil.
The Bible teaches that He who is in us is greater than he (Satan) who is in the world. Therefore the real power does not dwell in man, but in the living spirit of Christ Jesus.
Every American should read, “The Light and the Glory”, by Peter Marshall and David Emanuel. It is the very best history of early America which I’ve been able to find. Beautifully written and extremely well documented, this book is difficult to put down. It can be ordered from Borders. After reading it, it is startlingly clear why we find ourselves where we are today.
The simple answer is, from the very beginning the people of the world have been in constant war. A war between Good and Evil.
I disagree that Christianity leads people to socialism. But it is very fair to say that many socialists are Christians, especially in Europe and increasingly so in the US. To me that points out less of an affinity b/n Christianity and socialism, and more of the reality that Christianity stands apart from any ideology.
I am an advocate of free-market capitalism in the realm of economies and representative, constitutional republics n the realm of political system. But I am not unaware that there are weaknesses even on that side of the spectrum. I would argue that responsible, individual freedom is a Christian value based in God's choice to grant his creatures free will and therefore I prefer economic and political systems that allow for the greatest exercise of responsible individual freedom. Socialism, communism and all forms of government that seek to manage and control every last detail of individual lives are destructive of the freedom of the individual.
The Barmen Declaration, written by Karl Barth and a group of dissenting Christians in the early days of Hitler contains this very interesting statement: "We reject the false doctrine, as though the State, over and beyond its special commission, should and could become the single and totalitarian order of human life, thus fulfilling the Church's vocation as well."
So Rand argued persuasively and correctly, I believe, on behalf of responsible, individual freedom and free-enterprise. Good for her. But unless that freedom and responsibility is grounded in something higher than individual human will it is destined to fail and will devolve into a power game.
Jacques Ellul, a French sociologist and theologian had this to say about the nature of power and Christ. "What constantly marked the life of Jesus was not nonviolence but in every situation the choice not to use power. This is infinitely different."
Ideologies are implemented and maintained by power. For the most part is is human power, human wisdom and human power. What many on the right and the left fail to see is that while they rightfully should struggle to make the world a better place (or "tolerable" as Ellul would put it), the Kingdom of God is not built by human hands or human ideologies.
AMEN.
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