If that isn't a typical smirking missionary comment I haven't seen one, ROTFL! "Respectfully asserting" that "this" is the "Lord's restored church"...
"Respectful" my foot!
Posted on 06/16/2011 8:37:35 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
The Mormon subculture has developed a family form
which is both typical of the broader American culture
and unique to itself.
-SNIP-
There are several issues related to this central
ambivalence of Mormons toward gentiles. First,
Mormonism constitutes a divinely instituted restoration
of ancient pure Christianity. A clear implication of this
stance is that other Christian churches are nol divinely
instituted. This stance, of course, does not ingratiate
Mormons to non-Mormons.
Within the Mormon community itself, this has
resulted in the development of a world view which is
another major source of strain and anguish for some Mormons.
This subconsciously scripted world view implies that
Mormons should be more righteous, happier, more in general,
superior to non-Mormons. The paired
assumptions, of course, are that gentiles are more
decadent, less happy, less inclined to honesty and
integrity, less successful and, in general, inferior to
Mormons. On the one hand this suggests an arrogant
ethnocentricity which fights against the friendly,
outgoing missionary spirit. On the other hand, it sets
some Mormons up for painful disillusionment. Our
world view suggests that our way of life is God-inspired
and thus constitutes in its purity the best of all possible
worlds. Any good person of integrity and personal honesty,
we like to tell ourselves, will convert to Mormonism
once he sees how superior it is as a way of life.
This superiority stance applies strain on Mormons
from two different angles. First, we tend to feel we must
live our lives as an example of Mormon superiority. This
tends to place an enormous burden on the shoulders of
many Mormons. When these Mormons see nonmembers
who are not impressed thilt their Mormon way of life is
superior, they feel like failures.
"What am I doing wrong?" they ask themselves. '1
know gospel living is superior, so I just must not be
measuring up."
As an example, I had a woman tell me a while back
about a convention she attended with her husband who
was a salesman. While her husband and the other men
were in their meetings, the wives had a wonderful time
shopping, sightseeing and restaurant hopping-all but
my client. When the others ordered drinks, she ordered
7-Up. When they laughed uproariously over little offcolor
comments, she tried to maintain some dignity, but
without much success. When the others spent money
frivolously, she would prudently refrain. On Sunday,
she went to church among strangers and spent most of
the day alone while the other women enjoyed
themselves.
Most Mormons go through this type of experience
from time to time, but it gets filtered, tempered and reinterpreted
for use in fast and testimony meeting or
elsewhere in Mormon lore so that it always ends with
the defeat of evil and the triumph of righteousness. The
stories as they get retold result in someone getting
interested in the gospel, or in the heroine getting new
insight into how truly shallow and miserable these
people really are, and a new understanding of the
happiness the gospel brings, or by resisting temptation
and sticking to righteous principles, a terrible disaster
will be averted.
It was almost in tears of humiliation and guilt that the
wife cited above confessed to me that in reality those
other women seemed to really have their lives together,
and had a wonderful time, while she was never so
miserable in all her life. The fact that they were happy
and she was miserable in that situation translated to her
as personal failure, both because she was unhappy and
because as a missionary she was a total failure.
The second strain caused by the Mormon world view
of superiority is that many Mormons look around within
their own ranks and see the same problems that are
found in the larger community and become
disillusioned. "How could those who live God's true
religion," this reasoning goes, "be subject to the same
failings and weaknesses as those who don't." Elder
Packer put his finger on this strain this morning as he
told the incident about being asked what is the purpose
for the occurrence of disasters.
I was seeing a teen-aged incest victim a while back.
Her father was a member of the high council in their
Stake, and was a friendly, outgoing, highly respected
and well-loved man in their ward. (I have to admit that as
a relatively new, inexperienced therapist the situation
shocked me a bit. I can imagine what she was going
through.) All during the years the incest was going on,
people would come up to this girl at church and say
things like, "Your father is such a wonderful man. I'm
sure he'll be the next bishop of the ward."
She told me that the only thing that kept her from
losing her testimony during that period was that in spite
of what everyone said about her father, he was never
called as bishop. This is a testimony to me of the
inspiration of priesthood callings, but it is not a sound
basis for a testimony of the gospel.
Many Mormons tend to idealize Church officials at all
levels, and then are shocked and disillusioned when they
find they are human too. But this perfectionist attitude
is not restricted to Church officials. Another
manifestation is the belief that if you just live the gospel.
everything will work out. As therapists you all know the
havoc this can wreak in peoples' lives. But that belief is
widespread and persistent among Mormons--even a lot
who should know better.
When I first went into private practice as a therapist, I
talked to my dentist, who was a regional representative
at the time. As I explained my plans to him, he looked a
little puzzled and said, "Well, fortunately with our
bishops to handle those kinds of problems and the
Church organization what it is, we really have no need
for those kinds of services among Church members."
The strains caused by these two factors--the need to
live a superior life style, and the belief that serious
personal problems should not exist within the Mormon
community--are acute. A great deal of energy is devoted
to establishing and maintaining an image, both for nonMormons
and for Mormons themselves, that the
Mormon way of life is superior.
-SNIP-
Another issue closely related to the place of gentiles in
the Mormon-world view is that of ambivalent loyalties.
It has been explicitly stated and often reinforced in the
Church that a person's prime loyalty is to the family.
This axiomatic stance is challenged, however, by
another axiom that Mormons should always be ready
and willing to make personal sacrifices for the Church.
The law of sacrifice, as we understand it, and the general
willingness of active, converted members to dedicate
enormous amounts of time and energy to the Church
places another strain on the Mormon family. There is an
implicit conflict of loyalties to Church and family.
(More at link)
Explain to me how you guys knew to start opposing Romney years before anyone outside of Massachusetts ever heard of him, please.
I don’t know about you Pan, but I oppose Romney first and foremost because he is a stink’n liberal.
IE: HRMDs
I wasn't aware of the Religion Forum until Romney was being touted as a candidate for POTUS.
I then discovered that the FR mormons were using FR as a proselytizing venue, and were bashing everyone who opposed their message as liars, bigots, nazis, jihadists...hmmm...THAT message hasn't changed.
So too, another Inman was educated through the Romney threads to the cultish aspect of mormonism.
I venture to say that through the effort of the Flying Inmans there have been others that were educated...two mormons have joined us who "apostasized" when they attempted to prove that what was being brought to light was wrong...and discovered that it is mormonism that is wrong.
This author is so stuck up he could have been one of the Mormons who knocked on my door uninvited and harrassed me about not being a Mormon...
The stinky attitude reminds me so much of the Mormons during those early 1980 years they told me their Mormon religion was greater than my Christian church because the Mormons had extorted from their suckers errr taken in from their memnbers more money than the Christian churches...
In those days they were more honest about the fact they worshipped mannon...
I think you misunderstood my statement. Please reread it.
I have no problem with posting non-Mormon views about what Mormons believe, either.
What I object to is people saying Mormons, Christians, Jews, anybody shouldn’t evangelize because it’s not “inclusive”.
Some people are going to Hell, and that’s all there is to it. If someone is offended by this, they should take it up with God, IMO. But they have the right to state their opinions regardless.
Well, the statement was a little unclear.
What I object to is people saying Mormons, Christians, Jews, anybody shouldn’t evangelize because it’s not “inclusive”.
What about "evangelizing" that is presenting half-truths about the doctrine, cherry-picking and leaving out a large portion of the history, the claim that "everyone will be saved" when in fact, to a mormon salvation is entirely different than to a Christian? In mormonism, "everyone will be saved"...translated..."everyone will be resurrected" but ONLY the chosen "worthy" mormons will be allowed to enter the kingdom wherein God resides.
My definition of "Evangelizing" and I believe that of Christian churches in general is a whole different animal than the missionary effort of the mormon church. Your mileage may vary.
They have their views.
I think they are wrong.
But, I am not offended by them telling me I’m going to Hell. I know better.
Maybe if I worried about it, I would be offended at their mistaken preaching, but I’m not, and I’m not.
But, those that think they are going to Hell should warn them about it, and they shouldn’t be offended, either.
Finally, as usual I will not read any replies nor respond to them
_______________________________________________
Spoken like a true RomneyBot
What offends me is that after more than 150 years of mormon leaders and members denying Christianity and denigrating every Christian faith, they NOW are demanding that we accept their claim that they are "Christian, just like you."
They demand that Christians not only recognize them as equal, but are expected to grant them equality while the non-Biblical doctrines and practices and denial of Christian beliefs are to be NOW (under the Mormonism Affirmative Action rule), left intact even though they have been inimical to settled and accepted Christianity since the inception of mormonism by Joseph Smith.
Mormonism not only demands a "seat at the Christian banquet table", it demands to set the menu, control the guest list, collect the funds from the ticket sales, and choose its own non-Biblical unedited and false message from its chosen speaker, all the while whining about being persecuted.
I do not believe anything productive comes in having a mutual bash fest.
_____________________________________________
So we can forget about defending ourself against your religious bigotted bashing ???
Is that what you are saying ???
The opposite of mutual meaning you bash, we have to stand still and get hit..
OK Wimpy Willie MittyBot
A repeat of 2008...
“...despite their clear worship of Christ?”
Wrong Christ. They worship a created Jesus who became a man to get a body then became one of the billions of mormon gods. Christians worship a Christ who was neither created, nor made - eternally God. Category mistake on your part, but since you aren’t going to read replies, you’re not educable.
“Frankly, Mormons are far more respectful of the beliefs of others while asserting the truth that this is the Lord’s restored church than many non-Mormons are about the Mormon faith.”
Oh, sure! And that is why they send +50,000 mormon missionaries around the world to tell Christians that their church is a false one... but then, you say you refuse to read replies, so you remain in darkness.
But we don’t have to give them any of that. We have rights, too
You know, God uses the word "concern" re: his 'tude toward the violent Assyrians in Jonah 4...Jonah was sent as a missionary to them to encourage them to repent.
If you look @ this as only a "well-should-I-be-offended-or-not?" matter, then you have a small worldview. You evaluate these truth claims only by how it impacts you; and frankly, that's a common American self-centered point of view.
Jesus encourages us to look at things from a "least of these" angle:
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’...45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' (Matthew 25:40,45)
That means we need to consider the spiritually vulnerable; those gullible around the world to door-to-door peddlers of false gospels.
You say you're not "worried" about Mormons who slander the worldwide Christian church and conveys to people worldwide that they should not join Christian sects (Mormon "scripture," Joseph Smith History, vv. 18-19). But isn't God concerned about those who hear such a message from Mormon missionaries & the Mormon church?
If you truly loved the Bride of Christ, wouldn't you care if people openly spent millions of man-hours & millions of $ telling the world how "unfaithful" she is? Well, that's Mormonism in a nutshell...the Mormonism which labels all Christians as "apostates."
Is this any different than what some anti-Mormon antagonists say about the Mormon church being of the devil and in every other way tearing down their beliefs including saying they're not Christian despite their clear worship of Christ?
Sure it is. The Mormon "scriptural" accusations of the Christian church are quite specific about Christian sects. (Read Joseph Smith History, Pearl of Great Price, vv. 18-20). For a reverse look, Mrs. Bush should consider showing us where the Bible specifically mentions all Mormons as being unjoinable, as having all corrupt professors, as having 100% abominable creeds.
What? Mrs. Bush can't find that in the Bible? (I thought not)
Furthermore, Mormonism's absolutes in the Book of Mormon (1 Nephi 14:9-10) allow for no other non-Mormon church to be anything but the church of the devil. IOW, Mormonism doesn't just offer "opinions" or conjectured interpretations about the worldwide Christian church; it says these are "facts" about God's view toward the Christian church.
That's putting direct revelation in the Lord's mouth that is quite specific!
Frankly, Mormons are far more respectful of the beliefs of others while asserting the truth that this is the Lord's restored church than many non-Mormons are about the Mormon faith.
You know, Mormons & their allies can be smiley all they want as they call us all apostates, church of the devil, Babylon, a false and dead church, 100% abominable-creed believers, all corrupt, & the like. That doesn't render the content any more bearable. And even if Mrs. Bush claims Mormons don't say this with their mouth, hey, their wallets speak volumes...they're paying for this worldwide slander of the Christian church!
Evidence of that is I never see Mormons posting articles on Free Republic ripping the beliefs of other Christian churches like this little core group of bashers such as yourself, Colorfonia, etc do with Mormon beliefs...unseemly crusade...
Why, of course Mrs. Bush ignores the 52,000 crusading Mormon missionaries who are out every day claiming we apostatized & THEY alone are the "true restoration." Of course, she ignores the million plus contacts they make on all days except Sundays! Your mind doesn't seem to want to get beyond a few electronic posts and objectively judge who is condemning who.
And btw, here "MissesBush" mentions me but doesn't ping me. Is this her common gossip tactic she does @ home? (Talk behind people's backs?)
If that isn't a typical smirking missionary comment I haven't seen one, ROTFL! "Respectfully asserting" that "this" is the "Lord's restored church"...
"Respectful" my foot!
Well, by that standard everybody that isn’t a Christian is promoting the wrong world view. Which is so, of course.
I have nothing against telling them, or other people, how wrong they are. I LOVE to dispute with Mormons and JWs. I don’t guess I’ve convinced any of them, but I leave that to the Holy Spirit.
My point, OK let me get off the Mormons for a minute and go to my Jewish friends. So many of them seem to think that just because their faith is not evangelical, no one else’s should be, either. And they can get offended and down-right rude about it, not to mention litigious.
So, I don’t like that, and don’t practice it on others. Look, we’re living in America, not the Heavenly City.
Yes, I think wrong religious ideas and organizations should be disputed in a firm, but polite and intelligent, manner.
No, I don’t think anyone should be offended by them tellinig you you and your ideas are wrong, because that’s what you’re doing to them.
In the end, God will sort ‘em out.
You say, “You say you’re not “worried” about Mormons who slander the worldwide Christian church and conveys to people worldwide that they should not join Christian sects (Mormon “scripture,” Joseph Smith History, vv. 18-19). But isn’t God concerned about those who hear such a message from Mormon missionaries & the Mormon church?”
No, I’m not worried. The Bible gives many prophecies about false prophets, and the trouble the ffaithful will have in this world. In the end, the Holy Spirit will save those that truly seek God and bring them to Christ..
Such is my belief.
Also
This superiority stance applies strain on Mormons from two different angles. First, we tend to feel we must live our lives as an example of Mormon superiority. This tends to place an enormous burden on the shoulders of many Mormons. When these Mormons see nonmembers who are not impressed thilt their Mormon way of life is superior, they feel like failures.
"Mormons focus on accessible, social aspects of their religion. Although the Mormon system of doctrine is genuinely attractive to many of its members, many have argued that the primary "glue" of Mormonism is the heritage, culture, and family ties, not the doctrine and theology. In other words, the typical allegiance to the Mormon organization primarily stems from something other than doctrinal concerns. The average Mormon sitting in a pew does not care how or why their religion works, they only care that it works for them."
-- from the thread Atheoligical Tendency ~Open~
"It's not easy to learn a new culture, doctrine and terminology — just ask new converts to the LDS Church — one of whom was disappointed to learn that the fireside she'd been eagerly looking forward was not a bonfire. Or the one who showed up in tears at the office of Marleen Williams convinced that no Mormon man would want to marry her because she couldn't operate a hot glue gun....According to the study, members of the church can help new converts by being more open and by giving love and acceptance to them, especially as they struggle to learn LDS jargon and learn the difference between culture and doctrine."Green Jello and Matzah Balls
-- from the thread LDS conversion is a process, study indicates
Well it sounds to me that this is a confession that your heart is far away from a "shepherding" one like the apostle Paul had. Compare your last two sentences above to Paul's comment re: the church @ Ephesus:
26 Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of any of you. 27 For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God. 28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears. (Acts 20:26-31)
So what Paul was concerned about -- false savage wolves not sparing the flock -- enough to the point "that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears" -- can seemingly only draw a yawn from you.
Chesley, please keep this convo we've had in mind the first time you encounter the apostle Paul in heaven. I don't know if he'll ask you about this yawn you had in real-time earth, but perhaps you could manage to commend him somehow for his spiritual vigilance of the flock...(all without yawning in his face, I'd hope).
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.