Posted on 05/21/2011 4:46:26 AM PDT by marbren
Camping is a victim of replacement theology. IMHO the lie of replacement theology is almost as insidious as idolatry. The key to holistic understanding of Bible prophecy is to understand the role of Israel in it. God keeps his promises to Israel. This is a model to the rest of us that he will keep his promises to us as well.
A majority of the church going world has been victimized. I believed the lie for 35 years. During the past 20 I have been seeking the truth and only recently did I stop saying IMHO replacement theology is a lie and replaced it with: Replacement theology is a lie dropping the IMHO. For those that do not know, Replacement theology is the lie that the Church has replaced Israel in God’s plan.
The church was polluted by Replacement theology early on. Origen and Augustine, early Fathers of the church, were the first to muddy up the scriptures in this way when they arrogantly took on the mantle of Israel for themselves. Martin Luther apparently did not study it and this lead to his anti-Semitism and Hitler. In many ways IMHO it is like a reverse of the circumcision party that led to Acts 15.
This replacement theology lie has lead to the church we have today. Everyone is running around not knowing what is happening in these end times we are in. The truth is The Church, the Bride of Christ, has a role and Israel has a role. Think of men and women, children and parents, husbands and wives, angels and people, dogs and cats, sheep and goats, wheat and tares. All these have roles God invented.
So the solution: Open your Bible, drop your preconceived notions and open your mind, ask God to reveal the truth about all this Israel stuff written in the Bible. The Lord Jesus Christ is central in it all. Gods Grace and Mercy is incredible, He does all the work. Faith and hope and love permeate the entire Bible and the greatest of these is love.
oLofob wrote:
“Luther did keep much of the Catholic Faith in his new sect, but added many doctrines unknown to the Church up until that time.”
Sect? I think not. Try not to be purposely inflammatory.
Added many doctrines unknown to the Church? Really? Name ‘em.
Luther tore apart the Christian world? So, the Reformation era popes and their “advisors” have no responsibility here? Everything is the fault of the kids? Tell me that you really believe that. The corruption of the whole papal structure was both deep and widespread. And it have never fully dealt with its own corruption.
John 17. You think Luther did know and deeply understand it? You think it is not known and prayerfully pondered in Lutheran circles today?
So, I will agree with you this far: Where we agree on doctrine I praise God. I only wish the pope and his advisors had ... (the list is long) It begins with acknowledging the normative authority of the Holy Scriptures, which was most certainly the attitude of the trustworthy Church fathers.
Denying Scripture yet again, I see. Your arrogance is beyond belief.
please read Romans 9 and stop believing corporate Israel has some seperate destiny than Japan, US, Bolivia, etc.
Please read the Scripture provided to you on this thread and stop believing that the Church as replaced Israel and God is finished with His people.
His People = The Church, made up of Jew and Gentile.
His People is not those who reject Jesus, even if they are biologically Jewish.
The issue is Jesus and who do you say He is?
Read Romans 9.
“for not all those who are descended from Israel belong to Israel”
I stay away from denominations and go to a church that preaches the clear, unadulterated truth of Scripture.
If you want to "research my beliefs" put your anti-Jewish agenda to the side and open up your Bible and read it and don't add anything to it or take anything away from it and don't deny any parts of it. Even those which state that God has a plan for His people which is separate from the Church.
This is the Dr Frankenstein which allowed for the creation of Camping. If the Evangelical had stayed with the reformation and the Sola then it would have been difficult for Camping and other evangelical loonies to ply their trade. But alas it was not to be and so evangelicals are now saddled with the Campings who make them a laughingstock.
It might be wise to have a reform of the reform of the reform which returns to the original reformation.It is the only path to salvage the situation for the evangelical..
not trying to be inflammatory, i apologize. name them? sola scriptura, sola fide, consubstantiation? ( not sure i spelled that right )
i do blame the popes and their advisors as well, i believe they excommunicated Luther if my memory serves me right. the Church was corrupt and needed a Reformation, just not a doctrinal revolution!
BTW - the Church has always taught the normative authority of the Scriptures, what it doesn’t believe in is private interpretation.
His chosen people = the Jews.
His Church.
His People is not those who reject Jesus, even if they are biologically Jewish.
Denying Scripture again, I see. Your arrogance is beyond belief.
The issue is Jesus and who do you say He is?
He is a Jewish rabbi from the tribe of Judah. He is God, He is the Son of God, and He the Savior of the world.
Read Romans 9.
Read the Scripture which has been provided to you on this thread.
anti-Jewish agenda?
my agenda is for all to come to faith in Christ and be saved. that means Jew and Gentile alike. funny, i think that was St Paul’s agenda too!
You have spent the entire time on this thread blatantly denying the Scripture which plainly and clearly states that God is not finished with the Jews, He has a plan for them apart from His plans for the Church, and He will save them and bring them back to Himself.
Go back and read the unbelievable garbage you've posted.
Don't tell me you're not anti-Jewish.
in your theology, what happens to a Jewish rabbi who died in the 17th century, who was well versed in who Jesus is, but rejected him and believed Jesus was a false prophet and is currently in hell.
what will happen to this rabbi’s soul on judgement day?
GiovannaNicoletta wrote:
“Let’s see if you can take all the Scripture I gave you which are exclusively for the Jews and try to force them to apply to the Church.”
If I am intruding on a discussion that you would prefer remain between you and “One Lord one faith one baptism,” please indicate so, and I will simply drop out. If, however, that is not the case, could you please answer just one or two questions so that I can understand your argument?
1) A question regarding specifics: What do you mean when you say that certain parts of the Holy Scriptures (the majority, if I read you correctly) are “exclusively” for the Jews?
2) A question regarding the general: Are the Scriptures as a whole addressed chiefly to the Jews or to the whole of mankind?
Thank you in advance for your response. I am not trying to trap you, only to understand you. For at this point, I do not.
if i was anti-Jewish i wouldn’t want them to believe in Jesus and be saved, would I?
in fact, if i was anti-Jewish i might preach that God is not finished with them and that they have a seperate destiny from Gentiles. sound like anyone we know?
open forum, i invite all to jump in!!
BTW - my wife is Lutheran and when i join her for services, sometimes if i closed my eyes, i would think i am at a Catholic Mass ( i have to remember not to cross myself, but i still lower my head when the name of Jesus is mentioned, so i am sure i am outed in the pews!! )
Excellent post. Thank you.
Additional Scripture such as Satan in front of God concerning Job - though some think this may have been preflood - as well as him being called an “accuser of the brethren”. These sound to me that he is still active in this world. He is called the “Prince of the Power of the Air” as well as the “god of this world”. Jesus as well as the disciples did battle against demon possession.
All this, to me, does not sound as if Satan is bound in chains in darkness - at least not yet anyway.
He would spend eternity in hell.
oLofob wrote:
“i have to remember not to cross myself.”
Why? Have you not read Luther ... Small Catechism, pretty basic. Maybe you know not whereof you speak. Don’t confuse American with Lutheran ... both of which I love, but which often don’t know how to appreciate each other. As for “a Catholic Mass,” in German the phrase for the regular Sunday service is “Heilige Messe.”
bingo, i am back to making progress again!!!!
so you admit having Jewish blood is no different than Japanese blood, German blood, Irish blood, we are all sinners and in need of Jesus our Savior??
be careful, some will now accuse you of being “Anti-Jewish”!
well, no one in the congregation crosses themself, so i try not to stick out as a “Papist”! ( just kidding ) the minister does make the sign of the cross when blessing the congregation, which i do like.
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