Posted on 04/23/2011 1:27:26 PM PDT by NYer
Where is Christ after he dies on Friday afternoon and before he rises on Easter Sunday? Both Scripture and Tradition answer this question. Consider the following from a Second Century Sermon and also a mediation from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
An Ancient Sermon:
Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him – He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . “I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead.” [From an Ancient Holy Saturday Homily ca 2nd Century]
Nothing could be more beautiful than that line addressed to Adam and Eve: I am your God, who, for your sake, became your Son.”
Scripture also testifies to Christ’s descent to the dead and what he did: For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison….For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does. (1 Peter 3:18; 1 Peter 4:6).
Consider also this from the Catechism on Christ’s descent to the dead, which I summarize and excerpt from CCC # 631-635
[The] first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ’s descent into hell [is] that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead.
But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there [1 Peter 3:18-19; 1 Peter 4:6; Heb. 13:20]. Scripture calls [this] abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” – Sheol in Hebrew, or Hades in Greek – because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God [1 Peter 3:18-19].
Such [was] the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they awaited the Redeemer: It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior …whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.”[cf Psalms 89:49; 1 Sam. 28:19; Ezek 32:17ff; Luke 16:22-26]
Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.
[So] the gospel was preached even to the dead. The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfillment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.
Christ went down into the depths of death so that “the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.”[1 Peter 4:6] Jesus, “the Author of life”, by dying, destroyed “him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage” [John 5:25; Mt 12:40; Rom 10:7; Eph 4:9].
Henceforth the risen Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades”, so that “at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth.”[Heb 2:14-15; Acts 3:15]
I have been told Catholic belief was judgment immediately upon death. This post hints otherwise and I'd like clarification. And that is all I'm interested in.
Delph
He has risen Boatbums! Heavens gates are open wide...that all who call upon the name of the Lord might be saved.
I can appreciate a 'friendly debate'. And I consider it my 'calling' to plant seeds of truth when the opportunity arises. And when one literally puts a seed in the soil, it is out of that individuals power as to whether or not the seed will germinate. I take Christ as His WORD, and of all the things Christ could have told the religious leadership in His day regarding the requested 'sign' was likening His time in the tomb to the same time Jonah spent in the whale's belly. And Christ was specific in the length of time, 3 days and 3 nights.
My guess is that Christ used Jonah for two purposes and possibly more. To those of that time that did not really believe that Jonah actually was swallowed up by a specially created creature, to be spewed out to the peoples that worshiped the fish 'god' Dagon. And to those yet to come who believe that Jonah's 3 days and 3 nights in the whale's belly was only an allegory and did not literally happen.
There are a couple of Scriptures that come to mind that cause me to come to this conclusion. First would be Paul writing in ICorinthians 10 I am not going to type the whole chapter but point specifically to verse 11
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples, (examples): and they are written for our admonition, (warning) upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.
Solomon writes in Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, 'See, this is new?' it hath been already of *old* time, which was before us.
There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.
BUT we now have the WORD, the script by which we can know to the level we are given understanding the replay of types that came before us. Jonah was the 'type' that Christ gave as the 'sign' for what He was about to accomplish for any who WILL believe in and upon Him.
To me there is not anything to debate regarding 'time', because to me then I am questioning whether Christ knew how to keep time.
But where was this Paradise?
It was not heaven, because Christ was the first one into heaven.
It was a waiting place — a place where those dead souls were. Don’t you remember a couple of the Gospels mentioning how the spirits came forth from their graves from Jesus died? Not everyone could see them — just the believers.
So be a believer in what the Bible says.
Hi, narses.
Does that mean that you believe God is not omniscient?
Read the Scriptures that you yourself have posted. The Bible says nothing of the kind. It says (whether Jesus, Paul, Peter, James or John) that all men will be Judged upon their deeds. Matthew 25 gives us three parables of that Judgement.
There is no statement or even hint of preJudgement related to any of these verses. Only that we will all pass before Him and face His Judgement (unless you are OPC, which preaches that the saved are the only ones resurrected, which serves to replace any Judgement upon the saved - and the unsaved can just go to hell without any bodily resurrection). Scripture is clear. Why is it that Bible Believers (self described) have the toughest time in actually believing the Bible?
Jesus Christ is the Supreme judge and the explanation given to you is correct but only AFTER Christ's death and resurrection. Before Christ descended into hell all the dead were there, whether evil or righteous. The righteous were like the poor Lazarus in “Abraham’s bosom” (Lk 16) waiting to be freed. The evil were and still are in the hell of damnation from whence they will not be delivered. The descent into hell brings the Gospel message to complete fulfilment, because it spreads Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places. Christ’s death and Resurrection destroyed the Devil’s power over death.
Wow how could I have missed that?
The next, I believe obvious question is... why? Why does it work that way. I'd love to hear the logic on this. Its fascinating stuff.
Happy Easter to all.
Prospera Pascha Sit!
The meaning of Christ’s descent into hell is that Jesus Christ:
1. died, like all men, and
2. joined all men in the realm of the dead.
While in the realm of the dead Christ proclaimed the Gospel to the souls there.
This is part of the statement of faith that has its its origin in the first two Church ecumenical Councils in 325 and 381 and is referred to as the Nicene Creed:
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven. By the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended in heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
The Creed forms the basis for the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Article 5 provides the scriptural basis for the descent into the realm of the dead.
631 Jesus "descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens."[475] The Apostles' Creed confesses in the same article Christ's descent into hell and his Resurrection from the dead on the third day, because in his Passover it was precisely out of the depths of death that he made life spring forth:
Christ, that Morning Star, who came back from the dead, and shed his peaceful light on all mankind, your Son who lives and reigns for ever and ever. Amen.[476]
632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was "raised from the dead" presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.[477] This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ's descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Saviour, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.[478]
633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.[479] Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham's bosom":[480] "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Saviour in Abraham's bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."[481] Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.[482]
634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead."[483] The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus' messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ's redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.
635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."[484] Jesus, "the Author of life", by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."[485] Henceforth the risen Christ holds "the keys of Death and Hades", so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."[486]
Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him - He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . "I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead."[487]
636 By the expression "He descended into hell", the Apostles' Creed confesses that Jesus did really die and through his death for us conquered death and the devil "who has the power of death" (Heb 2:14).
637 In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heaven's gates for the just who had gone before him.
638 "We bring you the good news that what God promised to the fathers, this day he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus."[488] The Resurrection of Jesus is the crowning truth of our faith in Christ, a faith believed and lived as the central truth by the first Christian community; handed on as fundamental by Tradition; established by the documents of the New Testament; and preached as an essential part of the Paschal mystery along with the cross:
Christ is risen from the dead! Dying, he conquered death; To the dead, he has given life.[489]
Easter Blessings to you and yours!
Very good. I wish that more people would read the Catechism. It would reduce the number of nonCatholics in the world significantly.
You've claim such a high IQ yet you conveniently forget these items which contradict the specious dogma of Mormonism. ... So I don't believe you now. Others may have the patience to play your dissembling games, but they are now forewarned of you and your hidden agenda.
He is now.
Apparently my question was not clear. I understand the Jesus going to teach the prisoners part. What I’d like to understand is why people couldn’t be judged by God until after he came down and performed the resurrection.
Thanks for all the explanations!
So, to be absolutely clear (I hope) Catholic belief is that until Jesus was resurrected no one was judged, all were in prison waiting. After Jesus. Christ's resurrection all are judged immediately upon death.So DU - what does your faith teach about this subject? And why?
That doctrine is what I'd like explained.
Delph
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