Posted on 04/23/2011 1:27:26 PM PDT by NYer
Where is Christ after he dies on Friday afternoon and before he rises on Easter Sunday? Both Scripture and Tradition answer this question. Consider the following from a Second Century Sermon and also a mediation from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
An Ancient Sermon:
Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him – He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . “I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead.” [From an Ancient Holy Saturday Homily ca 2nd Century]
Nothing could be more beautiful than that line addressed to Adam and Eve: I am your God, who, for your sake, became your Son.”
Scripture also testifies to Christ’s descent to the dead and what he did: For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison….For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does. (1 Peter 3:18; 1 Peter 4:6).
Consider also this from the Catechism on Christ’s descent to the dead, which I summarize and excerpt from CCC # 631-635
[The] first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ’s descent into hell [is] that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead.
But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there [1 Peter 3:18-19; 1 Peter 4:6; Heb. 13:20]. Scripture calls [this] abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” – Sheol in Hebrew, or Hades in Greek – because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God [1 Peter 3:18-19].
Such [was] the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they awaited the Redeemer: It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior …whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.”[cf Psalms 89:49; 1 Sam. 28:19; Ezek 32:17ff; Luke 16:22-26]
Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.
[So] the gospel was preached even to the dead. The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfillment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.
Christ went down into the depths of death so that “the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.”[1 Peter 4:6] Jesus, “the Author of life”, by dying, destroyed “him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage” [John 5:25; Mt 12:40; Rom 10:7; Eph 4:9].
Henceforth the risen Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades”, so that “at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth.”[Heb 2:14-15; Acts 3:15]
Oppps it looked like a continuation of your post... sorry
Oppps it looked like a continuation of your post... sorry
Could I have your source for this???
Remember that Moses and Elijah appeared on the mount of transfiguration and John and Peter were told they could not communicate with them ....
Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which Christ descended, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.
Is not God omni present???
Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham's bosom"
When the rich man in Jesus teaching saw Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham he was looking at Lazarus being embraced, or held in the arms of Abraham. Abraham was greeting one of his descendants into heaven. Abraham’s bosom is not a place, but rather was the embrace of Abraham for one of his desendents
2nd Kings 2:1: And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.
2nd Kings2:11: And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
Ecclesiastes 3:20: All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Ecclesiastes 12:7: Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it
Matthew 8:11: And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
The OT saints were saved the same as the NT saints.. by faith..by looking to a Savior as promised
I have protestant and catholic theology books in storage. The books are in Moving pod storage in Ny. I am in Georgia. I have to pay a big check to bring it down. I have nowhere to put it yet. I live with family down here. I need big room. But Boy do I miss reading some of those books. Well I do have my bible. This bible have since my mom died. I found a good used book store . I found auto-biography of Billy Graham cheap.
Thanks again
JohnGrace:
Keep in mind that Christ is a Divine Person with a Divine Nature and Human Nature. Thus, in his Human nature, he is like us in all things save sin, he truly died and thus went to the place of the dead [Hades in Greek] just like everyone else. But since he is Truly God, he was able to conquoer death and now his body, which is still a body, has been transformed and glorified, death has no more power over it and thus he overcame Death and Hades [see CCC link below]
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a5p1.htm#p1
Luke 16:22 [See entire parable of Lazerus and Rich man in Luke 16:19-31] speaks of Abraham’s bosom which the Ignatius Bible and Commentary describes as a “temporary realm within Hades where the righous souls of the OT era waited patiently for Christ to open the gates of Heaven, which did not occur till after his Resurrection and then Ascension to the Father where the entire Person of Christ Ascended into Heaven [see Ephesians 4:8-10 which alludes to the captives being set free after Christ Ascended into Heaven, and St. Paul points out that He [Christ] who ascended is the same one who descended into the lower parts of the earth [i.e. Hades, the place of the dead].
The Transfiguration of Moses and Elijah suggests that those 2 were an exceptions, although the text does not clearly state that or that is not the point of the Transfiguration narratives [Mt 17:1-8, 2 Peter 1:16-18; Luke 9:28-36].
Still, I think the overall Biblical evidence indicates that God made exceptions for Moses, Elijah and Enoch but they were still saved through Christ, albeit in an extraordinary way. For the majority of the OT era saints and faithful people of God, they were in Abraham’s bosom and waited for Christ to rise from the dead and ascend into heaven.
JohnGrace:
Keep in mind that Christ is a Divine Person with a Divine Nature and Human Nature. Thus, in his Human nature, he is like us in all things save sin, he truly died and thus went to the place of the dead [Hades in Greek] just like everyone else. But since he is Truly God, he was able to conquoer death and now his body, which is still a body, has been transformed and glorified, death has no more power over it and thus he overcame Death and Hades [see CCC link below]
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a5p1.htm#p1
Luke 16:22 [See entire parable of Lazerus and Rich man in Luke 16:19-31] speaks of Abraham’s bosom which the Ignatius Bible and Commentary describes as a “temporary realm within Hades where the righous souls of the OT era waited patiently for Christ to open the gates of Heaven, which did not occur till after his Resurrection and then Ascension to the Father where the entire Person of Christ Ascended into Heaven [see Ephesians 4:8-10 which alludes to the captives being set free after Christ Ascended into Heaven, and St. Paul points out that He [Christ] who ascended is the same one who descended into the lower parts of the earth [i.e. Hades, the place of the dead].
The Transfiguration of Moses and Elijah suggests that those 2 were an exceptions, although the text does not clearly state that or that is not the point of the Transfiguration narratives [Mt 17:1-8, 2 Peter 1:16-18; Luke 9:28-36].
Still, I think the overall Biblical evidence indicates that God made exceptions for Moses, Elijah and Enoch but they were still saved through Christ, albeit in an extraordinary way. For the majority of the OT era saints and faithful people of God, they were in Abraham’s bosom and waited for Christ to rise from the dead and ascend into heaven.
johngrace:
Sorry about the double post.
No problem, but as you can see it becomes quite a sticking point. Happy Easter :^)
As a Mormonism apologist, the least you could do is read the posted material before trying to divert the thread to your LDS agenda. The answer to your question —which obviously you want to challenge— is given in the excerpted portion of the homily.
MHGinTN and DelphiUser:
I thought I answered DelphiUser in an earlier post as did others. DelphiUser, if you want to make a Mormon thread about where Jesus went between his Crucifixion and Resurrection, go ahead [I personally will not waste time with your doctrines]. But there have been several posts that have answered the question and the homily by Msgr. Pope answers it as well.
Thanks for clarification. I believe as a Catholic. There are points that can be discussed though. Thanks again.
A Blessed Easter to you!! He is Risen!!
AMEN!!
If I may weigh in on this subject. Even if you say Jesus was crucified on Thursday, we know from Scripture (Matt. 27:45-47) that Jesus "gave up the ghost (died)" after the ninth hour. This would be about 3 p.m. since a day began at 6 a.m.. His body would have been taken down from the cross, hurriedly prepared for burial and then buried in the tomb that Joseph of Arimathaea had to first ask Pilate's permission to take down and bury. In Matt. 27:37 it was at "even" or evening when the Lord was finally taken down and buried. If we say it was on Thursday, then from Thursday evening to Friday evening would be one day, Friday evening to Saturday evening would only be two days. Since the women came to anoint his body in the tomb "as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week" (Matt. 28:1) but he was already risen and not there, then he must have done so while it was still the Sabbath (Saturday), so we don't have three days and nights even if the Crucifixion happened on Thursday. That's why I have always thought it had to have been on Wednesday. The Seder Jesus and his disciples observed was on Tuesday night and he was taken into custody that night.
Regardless, I know he is risen and my sin debt has been paid. I have been redeemed, hallelujah!
Man is trichotomous, body, soul, and spirit.
He gave up the spirit to God Father, while on the Cross.
This was a spiritual death.
He gave up his soul as a sacrifice, which was then placed in Hades, technically in a compartment also known as Abraham’s Bosom, AKA Paradise, which was the destination of all Old Testament believers after the first death, prior to the forgiveness of sins by the Father.
His body was placed in the grave, after he physically died on the Cross.
His body remained in the grave for 3 days, in the tomb.
Eph 4:8-10
(8) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
(9) (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
(10) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
His soul in Paradise also witnessed to those imprisoned, implying he also went from Paradise, also to the Torments, and to Tatarus and possibly the Abyss, where previous believers were not sent. We do not know much about these details other than in 1st Peter 3:18-19.
1Pe 3:18-20
(18) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
(19) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
(20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Some studies of Hades categorize it with 4 compartments, Paradise, Torments, Tartarus, and the Abyss. Paradise for OT believers; Torments for OT unbelievers prior to the Great White Throne Judgment; Tartarus, a place for fallen angels; and the Abyss, where criminal fallen angels were chained until times of the Great Tribulation.
Given the veritability of 1st Peter, the chained or imprisoned in the Abyss, if visited, would imply or manifest that Christ also has control of the keys to Hades, which is testified in Rev 1:18.
Rev 1:17-19
(17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
(18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
(19) Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
We also know He ascended after three days, when his soul and spirit were returned to His body, which was quickened by the Holy Spirit as the Resurrection body. Along with Him, also many saints were risen from Paradise at the same time, recorded in
Mat 27:50-53
(50) Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
(51) And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
(52) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(53) And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
I read this to mean that before Jesus died and rose again for the payment of sin, there was a place both souls went but it was a divided place. One side was called Paradise and the other side was Sheol. One side peaceful and comforting, the other, tormenting. However, I disagree with anyone who thinks that this place still exists for the righteous (righteous in Christ) under a different name - like Purgatory. I see no Scriptural reason that it should still be in place as like Paul said, absent from the body, present with the Lord. I believe that the Sheol part still DOES exist for the condemned - unbelievers. At the final judgment is when the real Hell in created for Satan, his angels, the anti-Christ, false prophet, and all those who ever were in Sheol with everyone else since the Resurrection who refused to trust in Christ.
I wish everyone a blessed and joyous Resurrection Day!
Sheol or Hades is simply the underworld. Both Paradise and the Torments are compartments within Hades.
We know it still exists, because during the Great Tribulation a demon army will be loosed from the Abyss, another compartment of Hades.
Since I was told this; I was intrigued by your post.
I agree. I said that the bad part of Hades/Sheol still exists and contains the souls of the damned. The Paradise part is no longer there but the souls of the righteous are with the Lord in Heaven now. The actual, final Hell created for Satan and his angels doesn't exist yet, but will be created at the final judgment where the devil will be cast into the lake of fire where he will be tormented forever and ever - no longer able to work his evil again.
Upon His death, He is infinitely everywhere.
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