Posted on 04/22/2011 10:27:57 PM PDT by bronxville
So many Baptist clergy could not possibly get away with so much abuse unless many others were complicit in turning a blind eye. Why do Baptist leaders tolerate the presence of ministerial colleagues who sexually abuse the young and vulnerable? Why do people in the pews not rise up and demand that their leaders be held accountable? Where's the outrage?
Why don't people at Bellevue Baptist in Memphis demand the resignation of Pastor Steve Gaines, who admittedly kept quiet about a staff minister's sexual abuse of a kid?
Why don't people at Trinity Baptist demand the resignation of Pastor Tom Messer, about whom there is significant evidence that he knew of a minister's serial sexual abuse of kids?
Why do so many people act as though clergy-abuse cover-ups are no big deal?
In my own case, the church finally made a written apology, but only after first threatening me and then seeking a secrecy agreement and finally being forced into an apology by a lawsuit. An apology extracted in a lawsuit (and handed off by their attorney) doesnt carry the feeling of any genuine remorse, but it does constitute an acknowledgement of the truth. Their ministerial staff knew all along that this man had molested me as a kid. Yet, they tried every means possible to avoid owning up to that truth. And they didnt bother to warn people in the pews of other congegations - people whose kids were at risk.
The apology was arrived at only after hours of hammering out the language in a court-ordered mediation session. Churches should respond with righteous outrage and anger at such crimes against kids committed by church leaders they trust, says the church. Well gee....doesn't that sound nice? But where is that outrage?
Even now, has anything changed? Have any of those who covered up and kept quiet about the abuse been held accountable?
The churchs music minister, James A. Moore, knew about it for 30 years and kept quiet. He was apparently content to leave countless other kids at risk. Yet, he is still the churchs music minister. Wheres the outrage?
The pastor of the church, Sam Underwood, is a man who was himself reported on allegations of sexually abusing a congregant. He showed his style of leadership when he shepherded the church to respond to my report of child molestation by having the churchs attorney threaten to sue me and insult my family (as though the fact that I grew up with a father who still suffered post-WWII combat trauma could somehow make the psychological injury of a ministers sexual abuse not such a big deal). Even if church members see no need for accountability as to the adult congregants abuse report (presumably because they accept the deacons view that it was mere sexual misconduct), that would still leave a lack of accountability for Underwoods failure of appropriate leadership when confronted with a substantiated report about one of the church's ministers who had sexually abused a minor. Yet, the man who chose hostility rather than compassion is still the pastor. The man who chose to threaten a child molestation victim rather than to protect others is still the pastor. The man who attempted to compel secrecy rather than reach out to other victims is still the pastor. Where is there any accountability. Where are there any consequences for such awful and immoral behavior? Wheres the outrage?
And what about the leaders at the Baptist General Convention of Texas? Was anyone there outraged at the fact that their long-time attorney threatened to sue a clergy abuse victim even when the abuse was readily substantiated? It certainly doesnt appear that way. Where is the outrage?
And what about the fact that he tried to compel secrecy by pushing a confidentiality agreement while leaving the perpetrator in the pulpit? Were BGCT leaders bothered by that? Apparently not. In an even more recent case involving the same BGCT attorney, a secrecy agreement was used once again, while the perpetrator was allowed to remain in the pulpit. (Of course, most of the time, when a secrecy agreement is used, you'll never hear about it at all -- that's the whole point of it.) Wheres the outrage?
And what about the fact that a man with a substantiated report of having sexually molested a kid was still standing in the pulpit of a Florida mega-church talking about his childrens ministry even after 18 Baptist leaders had been informed? Those men are still in leadership positions. Where is there any accountability for the willing blindness of Baptist leaders who leave kids in harms way for clergy predators? Where is the outrage?
It is easy enough to look at the perpetrators and say therein lies the problem. But what about all the enablers? What about the many leaders who turn a blind eye and allow clergy molesters to move on to other churches where they find fresh new prey? Where is the outrage?
What a joke. I’ve seen you be a nasty hateful poster as long as you have your crew with you. Now you’re all by your lonesome and life sucks, doesn’t it?
You forgot “If you don’t *demand* these pastors step down immediately, you’re no better than them!” Or “If you continue going to that church (instead of joining the one true religion....mine....) then you’re a child molester too!”
Mrs. Prince of Space
So you figured us out, huh?
Funny but I was practically called a liar for stating this fact the other night in the mega Catholic-bashing thread.
Mrs. Prince of Space
So where are the hyenas tonight? I mean, I thought they were so up in arms against child abuse by clergy.
But only if a Catholic priest is the accused. If it’s a “proddy”....not so much.
Pathetic!
Mrs. Prince of Space
So where are the hyenas tonight? I mean, I thought they were so up in arms against child abuse by clergy.
But only if a Catholic priest is the accused. If it’s a “proddy”....not so much.
Pathetic!
Mrs. Prince of Space
It was the same in Germany....it was the Catholic priests who told all their parishioners to never vote for a communist or Nazi in the early 30’s. They were into the occult or atheists.
I don’t think boatbums is a bad person. It bugs me to see you pile on her. I don’t think she’s right all the time, but I think she presses her case as fairly as many and far more fairly than some.
I do think the conversation is skewed, and, frankly, I think the skewing shows that the Catholic Church has a special place in the heilsgeschichte. The outrage seems to me to be pretty selective.
The steps the Catholic Church has taken,at least in the US, are generally ignored. My diocese is quite strict, as these things go. Anybody who is going to work with children has to go through some kind of program. Even though I don’t work (all my work is volunteer) with children I will be going through the program sometime this year.
Of course, there’s not much a program can do with a determined abuser. So now the diocese has a guilty until proven innocent stance. A mere allegation gets you removed from your position.
If we look across the spectrum of people who work with children, we do better than many. But any case is an outrage and there are a lot of cases.
I recently learned from a person I knew in the early seventies and remet last fall, that after I left the area the private school where she studied became a riot of teacher student sex, all of it hetero as far as I know.
When the school was confronted, it just closed ranks. All these years later, former students now in their fifties are now, well, enriching psychiatrists.
The problem seems common. The reporting seems skewed. But I guess the primary issue is for eachof us to clean house.There’s no way the Catholic church is going to get an even break in the US,and we might as well accept it.
how many school teachers, administrators, or workers have been let go due to molesting kids?
last stat i saw on that had it around 700 per year. PER YEAR.
funny how they never talk about it (except in a ‘aint that cool’ light)
Sadly so. What I observe is there is a small group who seem to spend an inordinate amount of time online and whose contributions to discussion are almost exclusively attacking the Roman Catholic Church.
A while back I posted a vanity decrying the vulgarity (specifically the F word) that has become common on the board. Ten years ago you just never saw it.
While I a got some amount of agreement and support, I also got a large amount of mockery.
Stop ALL predators, CATHOLICS, Baptists, protestants ALIKE!
Proddy you say. You must be upset that your ancestors decided to leave their homeland and settle amongst us proddys.
Knock it off.
Thanks very much for your reply. I guess I can’t remember seeing it applied.
I didnt do an exact count but it appears to be more boys than girls which leads us back to the homosexual-pedophilia aspect which is never mentioned by the media. Political Correctness is screwing up, not only this country, but the world.
Careful of your assumptions.
One case I'm aware of involved an underage male. And a 30-something pastor's wife. No "homosexual-pedophilia aspect". When it broke, I remember thinking "a standard adultery would be way easier to deal with.".
When did baptists become part of the Catholic Church?
Oh, you aren’t talking about THIS thread.
“We’re the Catholic Church, the Real Deal, and studies show that our priests are no more likely to abuse your children than the heathen protestants!!!”
You do have to realise that many protestant churches are not organized in a strict heirarchical fashion like other churches. Most Baptist churches are independent, and there is no “overseeing” group that has any say at all in who a particular congregation chooses for their pastor, or the discipline of that pastor.
That shouldn’t mean they can’t form a database or try to track people professing the baptist faith who are known pedophiles, but it does mean they can’t just form “rules” of tracking mere allegations, because the pastors aren’t employees of any huge “Baptist” organization such that they have to follow some nationwide or worldwide rules for employment that would include allowing such a database.
I haven't run into those threads yet, but I'm sure they exist, and I agree with you that there is too much bashing going on.
Not sure that more bashing is the answer, especially during Holy Week. If as you suggest they aren't really concerned with the Christian faith (I have no independent knowledge of that), why would bashing other christian faiths not be feeding right into their agenda?
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