HAVE YOU NOTICED THIS ABOUT MORMONS?

Various | April 17, 2011 | Vanity

[greyfoxx39]

HAVE YOU NOTICED THIS ABOUT MORMONS?

 

If you were to desire to enter the exclusive LDS-Mormon club, you would have to be agree to the church doctrine including this:

 

First Presidency Doctrinal Statements
It is not only his discourses that form the basis of Joseph F. Smith's doctrinal legacy. During his presidency, several important documents signed by the First Presidency and/or the Twelve were issued that still serve as a touch stone of Latter-day Saint belief. One such document, The Origin of Man: By the First Presidency, was issued in 1909 during a time when evolution was gaining attention in the academic world.

They wrote:

"In presenting the statement that follows we are not conscious of putting forth anything essentially new; neither is it our desire so to do. Truth is what we wish to present, and truth--eternal truth--is fundamentally old. A restatement of the original attitude of the Church relative to this matter is all that will be attempted here. To tell the truth as God has revealed it, and commend it to the acceptance of those who need to conform their opinions thereto, is the sole purpose of this presentation. 'God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.' In these plain and pointed words the inspired author of the book of Genesis made known to the world the truth concerning the origin of the human family."

They added:

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, basing its belief on divine revelation, ancient and modern, proclaims man to be the direct and lineal offspring of Deity. God Himself is an exalted man, perfected, enthroned, and supreme. By His almighty power He organized the earth, and all that it contains, from spirit and element, which exist co-eternally with Himself. He formed every plant that grows, and every animal that breathes, each after its own kind, spiritually and temporally--'that which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal, and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual.' He made the tadpole and the ape, the lion and the elephant but He did not make them in His own image, nor endow them with Godlike reason and intelligence. Nevertheless, the whole animal creation will be perfected and perpetuated in the Hereafter, each class in its 'distinct order or sphere,' and will enjoy 'eternal felicity.' . . . Man is the child of God, formed in the divine image and endowed with divine attributes, and even as the infant son of an earthly father and mother is capable in due time of becoming a man, so the undeveloped offspring of celestial parentage is capable, by experience through ages and aeons, of evolving into a God."

http://www.meridianmagazine.com/biography/000128jfsdoctrinelegacy.html 

AND THIS: The non-creedal creed of the LDS church

 

 

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

http://lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1.1-13?lang=eng#1

You would be required to: Become baptized, because the mormon church does not recognize Christian baptism as do many Christian denominations;  then become confirmed a member ot the mormon church; then become worthy to be "ordained" into the two "priesthoods"; (IF you are male.)

May 15, 1829, while Joseph translated passages of the Book of Mormon about the necessity of baptism, he and Oliver Cowdery had asked the Lord who had to baptize in His name. "The voice of the Redeemer spake peace to us," Oliver later wrote, and a heavenly messenger, John the Baptist, "came down clothed with glory." He conferred upon the two men the , which holds the "of the gospel of repentance, and of for the remission of sins."

John the Baptist directed the two men to baptize each other, and they soon also baptized others converted to the restored gospel. Through priesthood ordination they authorized others to perform baptism by immersion. From that small beginning, many millions of people worldwide have been baptized members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Weeks later, Peter, James, and John, who possess "the keys of the kingdom, and of the dispensation of the fulness of times," appeared to Joseph and Oliver and conferred upon them the . Now the fulness of the gospel could be restored, the Church of Jesus Christ could be organized to "roll forth," and all the necessary for the salvation of God's children could be performed—including bestowing the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Because were restored to Joseph Smith, all of God's children can receive the ordinances of salvation such as baptism administered by those called of God to act and speak in His name.   D&C 13:1.2. D&C 128:20.3. D&C 65:2. 

priesthood keys

Keys are the rights of presidency, or the power given to man by God to direct, control, and govern God's priesthood on earth. Priesthood holders called to positions of presidency receive keys from those in authority over them. Priesthood holders use the priesthood only within the limits outlined by those who hold the keys. The President of the Church holds all priesthood keys (see D&C 107:65–67, 91–92; 132:7; The Guide to the Scriptures, "Keys of the Priesthood," 141).  Note: Women are not eligible to become "Priesthood Holders".

Then, if you become "worthy" according to mormon requirements, which include among other things, obeying the Word of Wisdom;

Doctrine and Covenants Section 89 

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, 27 February 1833 (see History of the Church, 1:327–29). As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently, he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.

1–9, The use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks is proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.

You may then appear before your "spiritual leader" or Ward Bishop, to answer these questions:

Temple Recommend Questions:

 1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

 2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

 3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

 4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

 5 Do you live the law of chastity?

 6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

 7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

 8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

 9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other oblgations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

     Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?

     Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

 

If you pass the Recommend test, you will be issued a piece of paper with a bar code on it that will allow you to enter the temple,  No one may enter except those with "recommends"  You will then take part in arcane rituals and are described as "Covenants"...covenants that are said to bind YOU and also to bind GOD.  In this "temple session",  you will be required to take this oath:

You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion .

NOTE:  This vow has been taken by Mitt Romney, Jon Huntsman, Harry Reid, Orrin Hatch and ALL others who have a position in the US Federal Government who are "worthy" members of the mormon church including FBI, CIA, Secret Service, etc. and by "worthy" members of the mormon church in your city, state, on your school board...wherever a position of authority is available.

After you take part in the temple rites, you are required to wear a specific underwear garment for the rest of your life.

Those baptized members including girls and women, who are too young to take part in the temple rituals will be required to take part in "proxy" Baptism for the Dead after they also acquire their own "temple recommend".

There are several religions larger than most Christian denominations, and together they are larger than all of them combined. Their adherents for centuries have lived and died and never heard the word baptism. What is the answer for them?

That is a most disturbing question. What power would establish one Lord and one baptism, and then allow it to be that most of the human family never comes within its influence? With that question unanswered, the vast majority of the human family must be admitted to be lost, and against any reasonable application of the law of justice or of mercy, either. How could Christianity itself be sustained?

When you find the true church you will find the answer to that disturbing question.

If a church has no answer for that, how can it lay claim to be His Church? He is not willing to write off the majority of the human family who were never baptized.

Those who admit in puzzled frustration that they have no answer to this cannot lay claim to authority to administer to the affairs of the Lord on the earth, or to oversee the work by which all mankind must be saved.

Since they had no answer concerning the fate of those who had not been baptized, Christians came to believe that baptism itself was not critical in importance, and that the name of Christ may not be all that essential. There must, they supposed, be other names whereby man could be saved.

The answer to that puzzling challenge could not be invented by men, but was revealed. I underline the word revealed. Revelation too is an essential characteristic of His Church. Communication with Him through revelation was established when the Church was established. It has not ceased and it is constant in the Church today.

As I address myself to the question of those who died without baptism, I do so with the deepest reverence, for it touches on a sacred work. Little known to the world, we move obediently forward in a work that is so marvelous in its prospects, transcendent above what man might have dreamed of, supernal, inspired, and true. In it lies the answer.

In the earliest days of the Church the Prophet was given direction through revelation that work should commence on the building of a temple, akin to the temples that had been constructed anciently. There was revealed ordinance work to be performed there for the salvation of mankind.

Then another ancient scripture, ignored or overlooked by the Christian world in general, was understood and moved into significant prominence: “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?” (1 Cor. 15:29.)

Here then, was the answer. With proper authority an individual could be baptized for and in behalf of someone who had never had the opportunity. That individual would then accept or reject the baptism, according to his own desire.

This work came as a great reaffirmation of something very basic that the Christian world now only partly believes: and that is that there is life after death. Mortal death is no more an ending than birth was a beginning. The great work of redemption goes on beyond the veil as well as here in mortality."

“The Redemption of the Dead,” Ensign, Nov. 1975, 97

Now,  this is just a part of what is required to call yourself "Mormon".  Even sects that adhere more closely to the teachings of Joseph Smith, such as the FLDS have been excommunicated for practicing polygamy which is STILL part of mormon "scripture"

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; , The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; , Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; , The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives; , Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; , Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages; , Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; , The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; , Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; , Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

  1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many ^a and ^b—

  2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.

  3 Therefore, ^a thy heart to receive and ^b the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.

  4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting ^a; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye ^b; for no one can ^c this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

Now, to those of you who are reading this I have ONE question:

If ANY OF US cannot be called "mormon" unless WE adhere to all the requirements (and more) listed above.......WHY IS IT THAT MORMONS BELIEVE THAT ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS INSIST THAT THEY BE CALLED "CHRISTIAN" AND THE CHRISTIAN WORLD IS REQUIRED TO BOW TO ITS DEMAND?

[Elsie]

Oh boy..have you stepped in it!! It would be Delusions of Adequacy to say he stepped ON it!

[Elsie]

 

MORMON

ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY

 

  1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t!
  2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t!
  3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t!
  4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal!
  5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers!
  6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t!
  7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t.
  8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures).
  9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith.
10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly.
11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. —                           -- You can’t.
12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- 

                           -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't.
14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't
15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself.
16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't.
17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t.
18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t.
19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't.
20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably                              -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going!
21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where.
22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t.
23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple

                            -- You have nothing but a stupid cross.
24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty.
25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy  (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!)

26.  I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over).

 

 

Revision 46.5

Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.

All rights liable to be abused.

[Osage Orange]

They also lay in years worth of food and are armed to the teeth.

That's funny....I've known plenty of mormon's that don't own any weapons. None.

[Osage Orange]

Yeah...probably right.

[Bruinator]

I have seen the claim that Mormans are the “nicest” people. Well my neighbor is one of the “nicest” people I have met. That is not the issue. This issue the fallacy of Mormanism.

[greyfoxx39]

I have seen the claim that Mormans are the “nicest” people. Well my neighbor is one of the “nicest” people I have met. That is not the issue. This issue the fallacy of Mormanism.

We see that claim over and over and over.

Being nice is fine, but if one follows the lies of Joseph Smith all the "niceness" of one's life will not matter in the end. And, I don't think that it's particularly "nice" to try to convince the world that mormonism is part of the worldwide Christian community. That's bearing false witness.

[Tennessee Nana]

Y’all betta stop wiff tha anti snake rollin jokes

y’all bigits yo

I dun rolled a snake jest yestadee mornin...

Tidae thet therar snaks reel holee lik

Hollyee Snak Rola(We’uns roll them therar snakees lik nobods biznizze)

[Pharmboy]

I have seen the claim that Mormans are the “nicest” people. Well my neighbor is one of the “nicest” people I have met. That is not the issue. This issue the fallacy of Mormonism.

Got that.

I guess my point, then, is that if their doctrine is either false, no good, evil, bogus or whatever, they sure seem to turn out OK (obviously not ALL of them, but surely a pretty good percentage).

[Godzilla]

I guess my point, then, is that if their doctrine is either false, no good, evil, bogus or whatever, they sure seem to turn out OK (obviously not ALL of them, but surely a pretty good percentage).

Come on pharmboy, pull your head out of the sand. Utah is the scam capitol of the nation. Utah is one of the highest users of anti-depressant drugs in the nation. I'm sure others here can provide more details on just how wonderful a life / how well these mormons are turning out. Lots of weirdos and wackos have been on the front pages, not to mention Romney and Reid. So much for the propaganda from SLC

[Scoutmaster]

Have you ever noticed this about anti-Mormons?

I'm sorry, but you lost me citing Jeff Lindsay as a credible source when he listed FARMS and FairLDS as sources, among other "faith-promoting history" sources.

My guess is that you are familiar with the term, but it is the official policy of the LDS church that the church and church historians - including academic historians at BYU and other universities - publish only historical facts about the church and its leaders that are positive, promote LDS faith, and are not likely to cause members to question their faith, or drive away converts.

As you may know, historians - LDS historians who are members of the church - are excommunicated, disenfellowshipped, or, at the very lease, have their temple recommends pulled for writing TRUE church history that is not faith-promoting.

The practice started long before LDS Apostle Boyd K. Packer, but he's most famous for giving the practice a name.

Here's a summary, but I'll follow this post up with some more details and links, generally to www.lds.org, www.fairlds.org, FARMS, BYU's website, etc.

When LDS Apostle Boyd K. Packer implemented the LDS Church's policy of "faith-promoting history' in 1991, he specifically stated that Mormon historians should not publish or state facts about the church's history unless they promote faith. He stated his concern that new members ('seedlings in faith", i believe he called them) could be turned away if they knew all of the church's history, so that only positive facts about the LDS church should be published.

All published facts should be filtered through the historian's faith and testimony, not through academic standards. (This was not entirely new; Apostle Ezra Taft Benson had admonished LDS historians in 1976 and 1981, and perhaps on other occasions, that they shouldn't follow the tenets of their profession if it damaged the church or destroyed the faith of members, and BYU professor Louis C. Midgley gave a presentation to LDS historians in 1981 in which he said it was "depressing" to see LDS historians committed to 'objective history" instead of "acting out the role . . . of faithful Saint.")

A BYU professor gave a speech to 40 BYU history students on the conflict between academic truth as a historian and Packer's 'faith-promoting history" standard and the BYU student newspaper published an article about it.

Newsweek published an article on the conflict between LDS church leadership and LDS historians.

The BYU history professor, D. Michael Quinn, had his temple recommend pulled.

Over 50 articles quickly appeared in periodicals such as Sunstone and Dialogue: A journal of Mormon Thought (both of which are mentioned in the LDS Church's Encyclopedia of Mormonism as having six benefits for Mormons) on the conflict between being a historian and being an LDS historian under the 'faith-promoting' standard. BYU's journal, Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies specifically adopted the faith-promoting standard.

Articles appeared in peer-reviewed academic journals on 'how to read LDS history", including how to interpret common words as used uncommonly by LDS historians applying the 'faith-promoting' standard.

The LDS began to excommunicate or disenfellowship LDS historians who published books or articles that were not 'faith-promoting', i.e., were factually accurate, but contained facts that the church felt were damaging to the church or may cause members to question their faith. I believe it was September 1993 that the September Six were all excommunicated or disenfellowshipped. D. Michael Quinn published another book on how Joseph Smith and his family had been involved with divining, astrology, and other magic, and was excommunicated.

Other LDS historians have met the same punishment for disclosing facts that the church felt were unflattering or would cause members to doubt their faith, some recently.

As a result, the LDS church's official biography of Joseph Smith lists him as having only one wife. If you read deeply into the www.lds.org official history of the church, it will list Joseph's Smith's first polygamous wife - but it does not list Fanny Alger, the wife he took before he announced the doctrine of polygamy, thereby avoiding some issues (including the fact that Smith may not have actually married Alger, and an affair isn't seemly for Smith).

The 1997 Church publication on the teachings of Brigham Young, used for the education of adults in the church, refers to Young's 'wife' singular, not his wives. It does not mention Smith's teachings on the priesthood of blacks, Adam-God, or blood atonement.

Because non-LDS historians and non-LDS writers had access to many records (Packer and Benton had closed open access to the LDS archives, and the vault of the First Presidency was closed to virtually all historians), FAIR and other apologetic groups, not recognized by the LDS church, arose. These groups engage in a policy of deny, deny, deny . . . attack, attack, attack, when it comes to unfavorable church history.

Those involved with FAIR could simply rely on their faith and retain their testimony, but they spend their time attacking those who violate the LDS policy of reporting only faith-promoting history.

Members growing up in the church have a right to their religious beliefs, but they are led by the church to believe that they are told the full history of the church when in fact they are told only the 'faith-promoting' history.

I can find the citation and quotes from the FARMS journal if necessary, but one BYU professor wrote an article stating that historians who wrote LDS history that was not faith-promoting and contained historical facts that were detrimental to the church's image, or could cause LDS members to question their beliefs or what they had been taught by the church, or keep the church from gaining new members, were engaged in 'propaganda."

We've seen the term "propaganda" used frequently on FR by former member Paragon Defender, who took this BYU professor's article to heart, and by the writers for FAIR. Any disclosure of early church history, even if true, that casts the church or Joseph Smith in a less than perfect light is deemed "propaganda."

What's interesting is that FAIR publishes a different LDS history than the LDS church. For example, FAIR recognizes Fanny Alger as Joseph Smith's first wife.

At any rate, if you read things about the LDS church that you have not been taught, or that you have been taught by FAIR or apologetic groups are untrue, what's probably going on is application of the church standard of only publishing and acknowledging 'faith-promoting" history. Church members - such as LDS professors at BYU and other institutions - are required to do the same thing, or face possible loss of temple recommend, disenfellowshipment, or excommunication. It's been done; it's still being done.

Some will say this is like the Roman Catholic Church keeping silent when it settles sexual abuse cases against priests. The difference is that the Catholic Church, when confronted, doesn't deny that those cases were filed or that the settlements took place. And the Catholic Church does not kick out of the church priests, Notre Dame professors, and others if they write academic articles that mention abuse by the priests.

If you are looking for hard-core, academic facts, as supported by normal academic standards, which would meet standard for publishing in a peer-reviewed academic journal, then, yeah, the facts are there.

Incidentally, Packer's "faith-promoting' speech was "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater than the Intellect." He presented it on August 22, 1981, to seminary, institute, and Brigham Young University religion instructors. It was subsequently published in Brigham Young University Studies 21 (Summer 1981), and issued as a pamphlet by the LDS Church Educational System. You may want to check page 271, where Packer says that distorting LDS church history is justified because "we are at war with the adversary."

BYU scholars agree.

David B. Honey and Daniel C. Peterson, in their article "Advocacy and Inquiry in Mormon Historiography," Brigham Young University Studies 31 (Spring 1991): 153, defend Mormon historians of faith-promoting motivation who "leave out less-than-desirable episodes, tell only one side of the story, or are incomplete in their treatment." In support of that, on page 176, note 76, they argue "that 'suppression of evidence' is in fact an essential step in the application of a 'viable tradition' of interpretation, not, we may add, merely an editorial right to be exercised."

So if Jeff Lindsay wants me to get my facts from FARMS, or FAIR, those groups have admitted that they are not going to give you facts that could cause you to question your faith, or show the church or Joseph Smith or other church leaders in an unfavorable light.

I do not want to question your religious beliefs. However, if you want to claim that you've been given all the facts, then I respectfully submit that you're wrong.

And you'll notice I didn't say other faiths disclose all of the facts of their faith.

But I'm not aware that any of them punish members and those in academia who dare to publish factual information if it casts the church in a bad light or could cause people to question their faith because things simply aren't as clean and tidy as you've been taught.

So, no, I don't trust Jeff Lindsay. He's suggested that I use sources that have specifically stated that they publish "faith-promoting" history - which means that anything negative about LDS history, even if true, is omitted. It means that a positive spin will be placed on all historical facts, no matter how bizarre that spin must be to be positive. It means that they have agreed that certain 'previously published' items, such as the 1830 Book of Mormon, should not be republished. It means they believe that adult study guides that direct the reader NOT to go to the original source matter are appropriate.

Jeff Lindsay does not want those who study the history of the LDS church and its teaching to know the whole truth, only the approved truth.

[svcw]

What anti-mormon? There is exposure of mormonISM. Are you calling the direct quotes of lds teachings, writings and links to official lds sites (not ones that claim they have no affiliation with lds), as well as personal experiences considered “bashing, and anti-mormon”.

[svcw]

The link, really what a laugh out loud moment. It could have easily been written by those lds on FR. There was apparently not one link to an official lds site.
It is interesting the repeat of “anti-mormon”, it is not anti- mormon it is anti-mormonISM IE exposing mormonISM.

[Elsie]

I guess my point, then, is that if their doctrine is either false, no good, evil, bogus or whatever, they sure seem to turn out OK (obviously not ALL of them, but surely a pretty good percentage).

Are you talking about MORMONs or MUSLIMs?

The same can be said for BOTH!

[Elsie]

... anything negative about LDS history, even if true, is omitted.

[wku man]

Somewhere in this thread, I made the mistake of chasing your red herring, and getting off topic. So, for the sake of simplicity, I will rewind and clarify my position:

1) I know many Mormons, some of them being what I consider to be friends, and they are, to a person, good, pleasant, decent people.
2) while some of them have offered to take me to church, and young men on their LDS missions have come to my door, they don't get pushy when I decline their offers. IOW, they don't meddle in my personal business
3) the article apparently is trying to make the point that Mormons are more loyal to the LDS Church than they are to their country, a point that I take issue with, based on my own personal experiences. Even if so...SO WHAT? It's not like any of them but Mitt Romney are running for national office...DINGDINGDING...I think we have a winner! More on this later.
4) similar articles appear regularly on the Free Republic main menu, sometimes bashing Mormons, sometimes Jews, sometimes Catholics, etc
5) sometimes they have all-caps headlines, such as "HAVE YOU NOTICED THIS ABOUT MORMONS?", which are obviously written to provoke people like me to click on them
6) invariably, I come away with the distinct impression that they're nothing but vitriolic rants by former Mormons or religious bigots, intended to poison the opinions of non-Mormons against the LDS Church (or the Catholics, Jews, Evangelicals, etc). In other words, it seems like you're trying to meddle with, or sabotage, my view of Mormons. Well, I can make up my own mind, thank you very much.

Given that the frequency of anti-LDS screeds has seemingly increased since the 2008 campaign, I'm pretty sure their root purpose is to convince people to not support Mitt Romney. If so, they're completely unnecessary. He has plenty enough baggage without having to bash his religion, and in the process paint all Mormons with the same broad brush. Does Romney put the LDS Church above his nation? Maybe. Do the Mormons I work with put the church above their nation? I seriously doubt it, and if they do, SO WHAT? It's their business, not mine, and not yours.

Your campaign against the LDS Church is unnecessary, at best. At worst, your Mormon-bashing is only making yourselves look like hateful, bigoted, meddling busybodies.

Have a great evening.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

[svcw]

It's not like any of them but Mitt Romney are running for national office

Well, that is if you don't count Huntsman.

Do the Mormons I work with put the church above their nation?

Most likely. mormons voted for Romney at a rate of 92%, considering they present themselves as conservative and vote for this liberal - lds trumps all.

Would you be willing to show one mormon bash? I only see exposer of mormonISM.

[Elsie]

At worst, your Mormon-bashing is only making yourselves look like hateful, bigoted Apostate Abominable Son of Perdition, meddling busybodies.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“This is a poorly defined term, but I would say that only the activists who attack the Church in a way intended to generate misunderstanding, fear, and shock are the ones who deserve the epithet of “anti-Mormons.” Many such “Mormon bashers” feel that the end justifies the means, and use tactics that are incompatible with the truthful example of Christ.”

Great! The Flyin’ Inmans on FR want to bring understanding and clarity and truth about the false cult of Mormonism. Nice to know old Jeffry doesn’t lump us in with those antis!

[greyfoxx39]

the article apparently is trying to make the point that Mormons are more loyal to the LDS Church than they are to their country, a point that I take issue with, based on my own personal experiences. Even if so...SO WHAT? It's not like any of them but Mitt Romney are running for national office...DINGDINGDING...I think we have a winner! More on this later.

"the article apparently is trying to make the point"

There IS NO ARTICLE. Did you see the term "vanity" at the head of the post? That means that I personally have taken the time to find and present the information that follows. The various items ARE sourced to their origin, most of which are LDS sources.

You state, the article apparently is trying to make the point that Mormons are more loyal to the LDS Church than they are to their country, a point that I take issue with, based on my own personal experiences.

SAY WHAT? I'm making the point that while mormonism is attempting to claim the label of "Christian" it is anything but, and then I point out the various requirements for becoming a mormon "worthy" of mormonism's version of salvation. None of these "requirements" are in ANY WAY related to Christianity! The fact that mormons take a "sacred" oath in their temple rite to put their church above their country is only one issue.

Now then, I make the point that since no one who does not meet all these "requirements" before mormons will deign to allow them into their exclusive club, it is simply ridiculous that mormonism is running around the world, on TV, radio, the internet and with 52,000 missionaries telling Christians that their faith is false and only through mormonism will they reach salvation, attempting to co-opt the label "Christian" after 160 years of leaders and members alike demeaning everything Christian.

My question then is this: WHY IS IT THAT MORMONS BELIEVE THAT ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS INSIST THAT THEY BE CALLED "CHRISTIAN" AND THE CHRISTIAN WORLD IS REQUIRED TO BOW TO ITS DEMAND?

No Christian will be allowed to claim the title of "mormon/LDS" unless they meet the special requirements listed, but mormonism believes it can keep all its polytheistic, works-based doctrine in which it states that Christ was once a man and that a "worthy" mormon man can become a god....and bring all that baggage along and dictate to other faiths, "We're Christians, just like you"!

it seems like you're trying to meddle with, or sabotage, my view of Mormons. Well, I can make up my own mind, thank you very much.

You can indeed, make up your own mind...however there is nothing that I have posted that is untrue and at the very least you have taken the time to investigate, which is all to the good.

Your campaign against the LDS Church is unnecessary, at best.

That is YOUR opinion and you are welcome to it. We see it as very necessary.

At worst, your Mormon-bashing is only making yourselves look like hateful, bigoted, meddling busybodies.

It's too bad that you feel the need to make a personal attack when the purpose of the Religion Forum is for open debate on religious matters. As the Religion Moderator's disclaimer in reply #1 states, "Open threads are a town square. Antagonism though not encouraged, should be expected

Posters may argue for or against beliefs of any kind. They may tear down other’s beliefs. They may ridicule.

If one doesn't have the stomach to face a few truths, perhaps they should stay away from these threads.

[Tennessee Nana]

Do the Mormons I work with put the church above their nation?
________________________________________

Yes of course if they are practicing mormons...

they have to “sustain” and believe all their mormon doctrines...

They have to obey their mormon leaders in all things

While a Christian will just go and sign up to serve in the armed forces

or when there was a draft just go down and sign up

unlike the 2 time draft dodging Romney...

a mormon must first have a meeting and indoctrination by his bishop and or the mormon leadersghip

he is told that he is a mormon first and that his military assignment is a mormon mission field first...

He is there to serve the mormon gods first...

any conflict of interest the mormon gods must be obeyed before his military authorities...

He is further told not to say he is a Protestant Christian but to have LDS for latter day saint on his dog tags and records...

Mormons in the US military ???

Yes there are a few but the % is much less than Christians in the military..

the military is a opportune mission field for mormon proslylizing more than national service...