Posted on 04/10/2011 3:50:38 PM PDT by Colofornian
PARK CITY — Cathy Chamberlain spoke about recognizing and remedying common misperceptions of women in the LDS Church, at the 4th Annual LDS Business Conference.
"There are a lot of myths out in the world about who Mormon women really are," Chamberlain said Friday in Park City. "The most common myth outside of the church is that LDS women are second-class citizens in the church. Among our own women, they're not sure their roles are as important as men's roles.
"We've got some cultural myths we've got to remove, and it's become a mission of mine to figure out how you break down those myths."
(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...
Book of Mormon Jeopardy on Women
Time to hit the Jeopardy category of “Women in the Book of Mormon.” (For those who don't know "Jeopardy," the answer comes first)
Answer: 2%
Question: What % of the 250 or so characters in the Book of Mormon are female?
Answer: Once
Question: How many times are “sisters” even referenced in the Book of Mormon? [The only reference I've found is 2 Nephi 5:6 – and even then these sisters of Nephi are unnumbered & unnamed]
Answer: Sarai
Question: Who's the only wife mentioned by name in the Book of Mormon?
Answer: Abish
Question: Who's the only daughter mentioned by name in the Book of Mormon?
Answer: Don't Exist
Question: Who are sisters mentioned by name in the Book of Mormon?
Now that we know the BoM marginalizes women, how can we tell if it trivializes women, too?
(1) Leading off the lineup of Mormon women, we have the unnamed daughter of Jared (Ether 8:8-12). What goes through her brain? Why she wants to dance before a man so that she'll seduce him into marrying him; then this household can properly commit patricide. Nice.
(2) There's an unnamed Lamanite queen in Alma 47:35. She's easy to defraud.
(3) There's another unnamed Lamanite queen in Alma 22:19-24. Let's see. This queen sees Aaron & servants @ foot of a dead king's bed. She jumps to wrongful conclusions. Then in all her decisiveness, she's going to massacre them for guilt-by-association. Then she started to back down from her heavy-handed executive authority. Why? Not because of justice, but because of fear – her servants were fearful. So she was, too (v. 21). Aaron, seeing that this woman was no match for kingdom authority, elected, instead to do the “easy thing.” And what was the easy thing in comparison to trying to deal with this queen? Why, he raised the king back from the dead (vv. 22-23).
(4) And since the book of Alma in the Book of Mormon seems to carry the predominant mention of women on behalf of the entire book, how do the earlier chapters introduce such women?
Here, read it yourself:
“And now, may the peace of God rest upon you, and upon your houses and lands, and upon your flocks and herds, and [“and” = covering things you haven't yet covered...so what you seen the next line applies to what follows -- not what was preceding]
and all that you POSSESS, your women and your children,
according to your faith and good works,
from this time forth AND FOREVER
And thus I have spoken. Amen. (Alma 7:27)
(Well, last time I looked, forever meant forever...meaning women are forever...possess[ions] per the Book of Mormon.)
Other than that, when women are mentioned in the Book of Mormon, they are good for toiling, spinning, working (Mosiah 10:5; Hel. 6:13) and having kids (1 Nephi 17:1), which the prestigious clans of the Book of Mormon were good at having by gobs of millions...supposedly.
And even when we get to the grandest of stories about women yanked out of the Bible, even Joseph can't get it quite exact. He references an unnamed virgin in 1 Nephi 11:18 -- who Smith identified as "the mother of God." Now the RC among us might say, "So?"
ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....
Well, I guess if you’re obsessed with Mormons, this is an important topic.
(Well, I guess if you're obsessed with calling people obsessed, as you usually are, your comment was important enough at least for you to vent it)
I’ve always said the smallest philosophical or religious changes in a people makes huge changes in a culture.
There is a reason our government exists out of the Judeo-Christian concept of religion, and why it struggles once you get away from it. Tiny differences reverberate. I can see the difference in Catholic cultures, Buddist ones, agnostic ones.
The culture of abortion resounding through America can be seen in so many ways- the idea that life is not inherently sacred.
Mormonism is no different. That said, I’m not sure the book of Mormon overreaches the New Testament for Mormons. I would look more to Doctrine and Covenents.
It's his FR thing, sad really. Better to just ignore him.
(Oh, you mean like D&C 132...still on the books for Mormons?)
Here's a sample from D&C 132...how the Mormon "god" wanted to address women in the 1830s:
51Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her;
Allow me to "translate" this for Mormons and non-Mormons alike: Emma had threatened to Joseph a "what's good for the goose is also good for the gander"...so Joseph had to squelch that...
52And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
Translation: "Well, Emma, if I happened to have taken a whore vs. another wife among the new ones I'm marrying every month [sometimes it was every week], then, hey, God will deal with them."
Then flip a few more pages in the D&C to D&C 134:12.
D&C 134:12 "settles" the issue for the Mormon: Are slaves & traffed women worthy of the "gospel?" LDS Answer? Nope! neither preach the gospel to, nor baptize them..." says LDS "Scripture.
And why not? Well, says D&C 134:12: We don't want ya ta meddle with the Mastuhs' business “property,” or to say it as precisely as LDS "scripture" says it: nor to meddle with or influence them in the least to cause them to be dissatisfied with their situations in this life...
(Nah. We can't have unhappy slaves or trafficked women now, can we? Too disturbing to their "stations" of life, eh?)
Colofornian ...my favorite religous biggot!
Question, was God wrong to have selected Abraham a known polygamist as the family through which the Saviour was eventually born? .... do you thinK Abraham just didn’t explain that to him?
Also .... did you ever figure out who the God of Jesus Christ is in John 20:17? Don’t you just Hate it when the Words of our Saviour and Redeemer Jesus Christ conflict with the Creeds that define your view of God?
One last question .... In your view who will Elijah appear to as prophesied by Malachi in the Old Testament (Mal 4:5-6) before the coming of Christ? Won’t that person be a Prophet?, since he will have recieved additionl information/instructions from God? But...I thought you said prophets were impossible? How will you know one? Hey .... maybe Jimmy Swaggart is a possiblity?
last of all I will leave you the Words of Jesus Christ to a recent Prophet of God ... “behold all of thier Creeds are an abomination to me”.
I guess you probably know how Saul felt before the Lord took pity on him and enlightened his understanding.
Later ....
Abraham was not a polygamist.
Ya, because apparently lds woman are to stupid to understand. What condescending blather.
1 Cor 1:18 can help you to understand that which you consider foolishness.
When you start your insults with a falsehood, do you really expect anyone to take you seriously? Why would you try to spitefully use God’s choice? ... God chose Abraham before Hagar was ever the consubine of Sarai. But of course you apologists for the LDS cult apparently feel it’s okay to deceive readers by starting with a false assertion.
Until you figure that out, Joseph Smith's deceptions will continue to deceive you.
How does any of the poppycock Smith taught help anyone mitigate sin or the sin nature?
Elijah appeared to Jesus and the Disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration. What are you aiming at?
Teppe you need to do some serious cult research, and not just on the cult of Mormonism. Once you figure out how to discern true from false prophets, (by testing their words by the Word) your eyes will be opened.
In the meantime, pick up your Cross, die to yourself and Follow the Jesus of the Bible. If you don't, you are not His, and not saved.
Abraham was a polygamist!
He had at least 3 wives, a minimum of two at once perhaps more and had many concubines after Sarah.
Hagar was a wife. To me having plural wives is better than concubines.
This thread is useless without pics
Mormons would love for folks to do that wouldn't they...
Uncontrolled exposure seems a bit of an issue for the LDS...
You are such a delight.
No he wasn't. If your wife had a slave girl and told you one night, "Here, I give her to you as a wife for tonight -- minus any wedding celebration or acknowledgement from the community that she was a 'wife'" -- that doesn't make her your "wife."
And I've got news for you: Since when would a "slave girl" have the "rights" to consent to a hastily arranged sleepover by her "mistress" (female master). Wouldn't a slave girl simply do what her "mistress" (female master) told her to do?
He had at least 3 wives, a minimum of two at once perhaps more and had many concubines after Sarah.
Argument from silence on "many concubines after Sarah." Chapter and verse, please. The book of Genesis clearly says that Hagar did not remain with Abraham and that his second wife came after Sarah died. (Let me know if you want chapter & verse on that)
Hagar was a wife.
Says who? (Besides Sarai -- and only before she slept with Abram)
Tell you what: Let's "call" all the key witnesses to the stand, and hear what they have to say, shall we?
Q Hagar, after Sarai gave you to Abram and Ishmael was conceived, did you still acknowledge Sarai as your "mistress" [female master] in your conversation with the Angel of the Lord?
A Yes. (Gen. 16:8)
Q Sarai, when you were in your early nineties when Isaac was a toddler, how did you characterize Hagar?
A I told Abraham, Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son, Isaac. (Gen. 21:10)
Q Abraham, after Sarah gave you Hagar and you slept with her, how did you characterize Hagar?
A I told Sarah, as mistress (master) of her servant, Your servant is in your hands. Do with her whatever you think best. (Gen. 16:6)
Q When Sarah began to mistreat her servant, Hagar, did you intervene like what we might expect a husband to do?
A No. Hagar was Sarah's servant.
Q Angel of the Lord, when you called to Hagar after she conceived Ishmael, how did you reference her?
A Servant of Sarai (Gen. 16:8)
Q And when you conversed with Hagar, did you, Angel of the Lord, acknowledge that she was released from her servant role to Sarai?
A No. In fact, I told her Go back to your mistress and submit to her. (Gen. 16:9)
Q Moses, since you wrote Genesis, how did you identify Hagar in her last reference of that book? Did you link her to Abraham?
A No. I identified her as "Sarah's maidservant" (Gen. 25:12).
Q So in that same passage, you link Ishmael to Abraham, but you link Hagar only to Sarah?
A Yes.
Q Apostle Paul How did the Holy Spirit lead you to interpret the Old Covenant as expressed through Abraham?
A For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise. These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother...Now you brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. But what does the Scripture say? 'Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son.' Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman. (Gal. 4:21-31)
Abraham was no "known polygamist"...
Sleeping with a slave girl -- maybe only once -- doesn't make her your "wife"...and Sarai, Abram, the Angel of the Lord, Moses, and the apostle Paul all never referenced her as Abraham's wife after Hagar slept with him...in fact, if she was linked with anybody after that sleepover, it was with Sarai...as STILL her slave...NOT as Abraham's "wife."
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