Posted on 04/08/2011 7:39:38 AM PDT by ZULU
By and large any controversy in this matter has swirled around two doctrinal issues—our view of the Godhead and our belief in the principle of continuing revelation leading to an open scriptural canon. In addressing this we do not need to be apologists for our faith, but we would like not to be misunderstood. So with a desire to increase understanding and unequivocally declare our Christianity, I speak today on the first of those two doctrinal issues just mentioned.
(Excerpt) Read more at jesuschrist.lds.org ...
What confuses me on this issue is the fact that there were Christian “heresies” which existed in the Early Church which had all kinds of odd ideas about the nature of the Trinity and personality of Christ, yet they were considered Christians, even though they were thought ot be heretical.
I think the distinctions as laid out by other posters indicate other issues beyond the Trinity one.
Sorry about posting this in News. I made a mistake.
But its interesting to see the responses.
I am not a Mormon, just curious about why so many people apparently dislike them.
I’m neither a Mormon, nor proselytizing for them. I don;t know much about them and was curious about the antipathy towards them.
I think I get it.
Just for the record, I don't dislike "them". I am friends with many mormons, I am married to a mormon. I dislike SLC's church doctrines/tenets/history, etc. A distinction many fail to consider.
Some/many will argue that it's not possible to dislike an organization that one bases their faith on without disliking the individual.
I would argue otherwise. There are many of us who are in "part-member" families, yet still speak out/attempt to discuss our reasons for not agreeing with mormonISM.
I didn’t see a single post on this thread about dislike of individual Mormons, but I saw many posts about the insufficiency of MormonISM as a doctrine.
In polite societies, it is encouraged to actually discuss ideas. I wonder why so many people are averse to the discussion of the ideas of Mormonism.
Shouldn’t this be in “Religion?”
'Tis many reasons for such antipathy, including the reality that for 180 years Mormons have called Christians "the whore of Babylon," "corrupt," (ALL of us), apostate, and embracers of putrid creeds (ALL creeds as "abominable").
But let me mention another.
Let's say your entire family was victimized by an identity thief who stole what he could from you/them.
That person is a counterfeiter.
They have barged in and stolen the reputation, including the financial reputation, of your family. How would you feel about that?
What the Holy Spirit builds up, Mormons come in and rip off and then in the supposed name of Christianity, leave a reputation so mockworthy that all I've seen for weeks & weeks is dozens & dozens & dozens of articles on the Book of Mormon Broadway/off-Broadway productions.
And so then the makers of this stage production not only take shots @ Mormons, but Christianity & religion as well.
Some people seeing this production think Mormonism is just another version of "Christianity" and pile on their distortions of Christianity based upon how Mormonism itself has distorted it!
People don't take kindly to identity thieves.
Once upon a time, Mormon leaders steered clear of the Christian brand name. No more. Now it's coveted. Brand name identity is openly coveted by Mormon leaders and Mormon grass roots alike -- with no repentance coming from them about such coveting.
They've been given a brand name choice of going down with the fundamentalist Mormons, who they once were theologically and sociologically, or reinvent themselves as "Christian." Gee. Tough decision.
The only "probs" are...they've got hundreds of thousands to millions of gods...
...& a "Jesus Christ" who was "begotten" by a physical-body Father who was the literal paternity father of Jesus through Mary (that's Lds' "apostle" McConkie's words -- "paternity")...so Zulu, how do you think Christians feel about that? That Brigham Young said God the Father came down & impregnated Mary "rather than letting any other man do it"???
Not exactly a cause for celebration, eh?
What would be a cause for celebration is for Mormons to leave the pig sty of Mormon feed in those troughs of theirs & head on home where their Heavenly Father still loves them...and runs to greet them.
Well, I'm curious why your curiousity would lead you to this particular "testimony" and then convince you that mormons are Christian? Did someone point this article out to you? Did you do further investigation? I notice that you have shown little interest in posting religious articles before.
Also, "antipathy" towards mormon belief is NOT antipathy towards individual mormons...I have antipathy towards the actions of democrats, but not towards the individuals.
I suggest you read this thread for information that is from mormon sources about the "christ" that mormons believe in.
We welcome you to any of the threads that we have posted in the Religion Forum for further investigation.
I think that you should re-read the forum rules about personal attacks.
BTW, it is common forum courtesy to ping posters whom you are talking about.
It was kind of settled in the Council of Nicaea and by Emperor Constantine. That council and his efforts are worth reading about. It’s part of the reason the LDS church has a problem with what the Christian community believes and why none of the Christian denominations accept the LDS as Christian (they rejected us we didn’t reject them). I think it was Orgin that believed in reincarnation and there were all kinds of fights about the nature of Jesus (a man, totally divine, created by God which makes Jesus a creature not a child, etc) Every line in the Nicene Creed was fought over and is a dense theological statement. You need to study it line by line and find out why it was written that way and what heresy(ies) it was addressing. It underlies pretty much all future theology and fights over theology. I’ve noticed that the Methodist Church here on the Left Coast has been downplaying it and the earlier creeds in favor of the “social creeds”. It would require a lot of teaching to get the people to understand the what and why of what they were reading and saying. I’ve got to think about it, but it might put the brakes on some of the liberal theology that is being pushed here on the left coast as well. Time for more study.
Heresies existed before and after the Council of Nicaea. Man trying to explain the nature of God is always tough. It was over heresies and sharing of power that the Eastern Orthodox split from the Catholic Church. Protestantism was founded on heresies (in eyes of Catholic Church) and they haven’t been reconciled to this day which is why the Catholic Church doesn’t recognize communion in the Protestant Churches and if you’re a Protestant you aren’t supposed to take Communion in a Catholic Church (honestly, I think it’s now about power and tradition than it is about important things. I’m about 100% sure that the Calvinists and Presbyterians no longer believe in predestination for example. To me that’s a major heresy, but I’m a Methodist we’re like the Anglican and Catholic Church and don’t accept predestination at all)
A different ‘view’ of the Trinity eh
They believe in three SEPARATE ‘Gods’, plus believe there are uncounted multitudes of other ‘gods’ in existence. In short - polytheism.
Christian Trinity is a SINGULAR God that manifests in three Persons.
Propaganda.
Go to the LDS main site and look at: http://lds.org/ensign/1972/11/the-great-apostasy-as-seen-by-eusebius?lang=eng&query=Great+Apostasy Then search the site using the phrase The Great Apostasy. Then look at what the various mainline Christian churches have to say about LDS. You’ll quickly see the problems and why the mainline Christian Churches say that the LDS Church isn’t Christian because they’ve rejected major portions of Christian doctrine that are key to being a Christian.
There are some denominations like the Baptists (if memory serves) who take a more extreme view of the LDS church and some continue to call it a cult and the spawn of Satan, etc. Heck, I’ve heard the Catholic Church still called a cult (do a Google search for a laugh)and there are some small churches that don’t believe that Methodists or anyone who aren’t “born again” as they define it or doesn’t go to there church are Christians. I’ve been told the latter a couple times and had a good laugh.
place marker
We don’t dislike them.
They need to go through a reformation and drop the superior attitude of “I’m better than you because I’m Mormon”.
I use to consider them another sect within the larger body of Christ until, after 20 years, I was given information that was so starkly unchristian.
It caused me to start reading their books, student manuals and writings.
Additionaly, their history was uncovered on issues I had just never thought of and wouldn’t.
But then I grew up in an age and time these things shouldn’t be issues.
For instance, LDS was being pursued in a lawsuit alleging racial discrimination. I believe the suit began in 1974 and alleged people of color could not join the priesthood.
Now, up until that time apparently people of color could not join the priesthood and LDS Inc did everything they could to avoid a change in their policy or allowing their positions to see the light of day with their position papers.
In 1978 they were ordered to allow discovery to proceed and provide all relevant records.
Mysteriously and propitiously LDS suddenly had a new revelation and blacks could now join the priesthood.
Interestingly, prior to 1978, LDS excluded those whose lineage was found to have black blood in it and many who were already in the priesthood had to step down.
Here is a link that starkly demonstrates what LDS believed in regards to blacks in general and for the priesthood:
http://www.exmormon.org/blacks1.htm
“You see some classes of the human family that are BLACK, UNCOUTH, UNCOMELY, DISAGREEABLE and LOW in their habits, WILD, and seemingly DEPRIVED OF NEARLY ALL THE BLESSINGS OF THE INTELLIGENCE that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been KILLED, and THAT WOULD HAVE PUT A TERMINATION TO THAT LINE OF HUMAN BEINGS. This was not to be, and the Lord put A MARK upon him, which is THE FLAT NOSE AND BLACK SKIN. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race — that they should be the “servants of servants;” and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree.” LDS “Prophet” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 290, 1859
So they say people of color are marked by dark skin and a flat nose.
Now they call them Laminites and in the context of their meaning and intent I consider it a foul and racist description in the extreme or a completely bigoted remark that slaps others with a term designating them as inferior FOR THEIR COLOR ALONE.
I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I repent for putting it in the wrong category.
I will never make a mistake like that again.
If anybody can correct it, please do so.
Thanks
The posting is where it is suppose to be.
Nice try at suppression though.
You really haven't had that many complaints. Someone will likely move it eventually. In the meantime, read some of the information that has been posted and check out the links that are furnished.
Thanks for those links. I’ll check them out.
Actually, I have this problem. In the past I would get lost in a dictionary. You look up an unknown word and see another interesting word you never saw before and go on from one to another.
The Internet is much worse.
Somebody posted a link to a conservative website on Donald Trump in a Domald Trump related thread. I followed it. There were links on that page. One was to a Mormon girl’s blog. I thought that sounded interesting and so I went there. She had a link to this guy Holland and I went there. I read what he wrote and I remembered reading that a lot of people were saying that Mormons believed Christ and Satan were brothers and not CHristians. What he was saying seemed to refute that. So I threw this out to see what other people think.
I got an earful - sort of - or eyefull.
Don’t let him try to push you around.
Your post is fine.
LOL...I here you on that!
Well, now that you've gotten interested, you can spend some time just on the FR threads. Use the keyword search function for "lds" or "mormon" and you will find threads both pro and con with the ensuing debate. See you there!
The Internet is a giant haystack and sometimes you just get caught up in link obsessing.
It’s fun and then you realize(rather I) Dang! That was a lot of time that still didn’t feel satisfying.
Somewhere out there is the end of the internet and all the knowledge it contains.
I can’t wait to get to the end and then I’m done.
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