Jesus Christ, the Son of God

Mormon Church ^ | 2010 | Jeffrey R. Holland

[ZULU]

By and large any controversy in this matter has swirled around two doctrinal issues—our view of the Godhead and our belief in the principle of continuing revelation leading to an open scriptural canon. In addressing this we do not need to be apologists for our faith, but we would like not to be misunderstood. So with a desire to increase understanding and unequivocally declare our Christianity, I speak today on the first of those two doctrinal issues just mentioned.

[ZULU]

It would appear to me, that by this article, the Mormons ARE Christians. They appear to just have a different view of the Trinity than we do.

I'm sure this will smoke out LOTS of comments.

[colorcountry]

It would appear to me, that by this article, the Mormons ARE Christians.

That is precisely their intent.

[Grunthor]

“Jesus Christ the Son of God”

They no more believe that Jesus is the ONLY begotten Son of God than they believe in gay marriage.

[jimt]

Without a doubt.

Hopefully they’ll be doctrinal arguments, not scurrilous attacks.

Doctrinal arguments can be good.

[svcw]

Why is this in News and not Religion?
Beyond that the jesus of the lds is created, the Jesus of the Bible is Eternal.
The lds jesus suffered in the garden, Jesus of the Bible paid the price on the Cross.
The lds jesus is not sufficient “after all we can do”, the Jesus of the Bible is sufficient, Grace is given.

[fulltlt]

They sure lust after wanting people to believe that.


However, one has to look at the source of the inspiration
for Mormonism.

Joseph Smith taught that "The inhabitants of the moon are
more of a uniform size than the inhabitants of the earth,
being about 6 feet in height.

"They dress very much like the Quaker style and are quite
general in style, or fashion of dress.

"They live to be very old; coming generally, near a thousand
years.

"This is the description of them as given by Joseph the seer,
and he could `See' whatever he asked the father in the name
of Jesus to see," (Journal of Oliver B. Huntington, Vol. 3,
p. 166; as recorded at the Utah State Historical Society).

source:
http://www.watchman.org/lds/moonmen.htm

[Zakeet]

Your assertion Mormons are Christian is ludicrous for at least three reasons

FIRST: MORMONISM REJECTS MANY ESSENTIAL CHRISTIAN DOCTRINES

I suggest you check out the article: We're Christians just like you! wherein the author presents a number of well-annotated examples.

If necessary, dozens of additional articles and illustrations can be found on this WEBSITE alone.

SECOND: THE MORMON CHURCH UNEQUIVOCALLY CONDEMNS CHRISTIANS AND CHRISTIANITY

And the angel of God said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people. – Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10-11

My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong) – and which I should join. … I was answered by God that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof." He again forbade me to join with any of them – Prophet Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith History 1:18-20

Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century. – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167

The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God. – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:171

Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth." – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 6:176

Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127

Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225

What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing ... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225

The Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable … but with the Bible it was not and is not so … it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was. – Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13

In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ."No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. – Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p.7

If still not convinced, you can find many more similar quotes of Mormon leaders slamming Christians HERE and HERE.

THIRD: THE MORMON CHURCH ITSELF REJECTS CHRISTIANITY

Beginning with Joseph Smith, Mormon prophets have steadfastly proclaimed all Christian denominations were in a state of apostasy.

This raises an interesting question. A heretic is someone who rejects one or more doctrines of religion, but an apostate is someone who has rejected the religion entirely. How is it, exactly, that you can be something you have completely dismissed? How does that work?

[colorcountry]

They actually DO believe that Jesus Christ is the only ‘begotten’ son of God the Father. But one must ask what they mean by ‘begotten’ since they also believe that Satan as well as all mankind were the offspring of God.

[arderkrag]

Christians are those who have been saved by grace through faith in the gift of eternal life through Jesus. If you can reconcile that belief with Mormonism, great. More power to you.

[svcw]

Interesting the explanation of the “vision” Joseph Smith had, now how did they blend together the nine versions into one.
Yep, nine versions of the first vision.

[laweeks]

Jesus Christ, the Son of God

Can't be so in the LDS . . . they believe in hundred of thousands of GODS. So, for them, it would be Gods

How you can possibly equate LDS with Christianity is absurd . . . and they know it. And, besides, Joe Smith, Jr., will sit next to Jesus on Judgment Day (it's in the Book of Mormon, isn't it? . . . I'm just hanging them with their own doctrines . . . Pray that they will find the correct Jesus long before it's too late and hell awaits.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

the Mormons ARE Christians.

ROFLOL!

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

The Mormons hated Christianity for the longest time, only within recent years have they been trying to associate themselves with it. They think they can gain greater acceptance that way. I wonder what J. Smith would say....

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

Why is this in News btw?

[svcw]

Interesting isn’t it.

[Vendome]

The article is planting a false flag in its description of what the differences are that cause friction between 1 billion Christians and Mormons.

They spend their time telling the rest of us we worship in an apostate and fallen religion.

They are they one true church.

God was once man and they will be gods.

Heck, I’ll just post my list of differences.

Just so we are all clear on this though, Mormons recognize the doctrinal differences between the various faiths and can explain them better than most people.

Fine by me and if ones faith in their faith is strong enough then there needn’t be a perception someone being “Anti”.

My faith is strong is enough that allows me to point out the differences here on Free Republic so all may see.

One can then decide for themselves their own path.

[Vendome]

 

MORMON

ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY

 

  1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t!
  2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t!
  3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t!
  4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal!
  5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers!
  6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t!
  7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t.
  8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures).
  9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith.
10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly.
11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. —                           -- You can’t.
12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics --                            -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't.
14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't
15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself.
16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't.
17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t.
18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t.
19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't.
20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith sitting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably                              -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going!
21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where.
22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t.
23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple                            -- all you have is a stupid cross.
24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty.
25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy  (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!)

 

Revision 46.1

Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.

All rights liable to be abused.

Why can't the RESTORED gospel be found in the Book of MORMON; like Salt Lake City SAYS that it can?

[Vendome]

Repost with updated links..

Mormonism is not Christianity (read below)

Christian churches teach belief in God as an eternal, self-existent, immortal being, unfettered by corporeal limitations and unchanging in both character and nature. In recent years, several Christian denominations have made studies of Mormon teaching and come to the conclusion that there are irreconcilable differences between LDS doctrine and Christian beliefs based on the Bible.

Statement of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod

Statement of the Presbyterian Church (USA)

Statement of the Roman Catholic Church

Statement of the Southern Baptist Convention

Statement of the Assemblies of God Church

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2681001/posts?page=6#6

 

[Vendome]

 

The point of posting LDS authored stories is part of the Proselytizing .

 

Certainly, when LDS knocks on the door of an "Apostate" they expect objections.  Otherwise, why have the Student Manual for Missionaries, in which, they have points and counter points to their non-believers or what could be more accurately called Non-members of the LDS.

 

In fact, LDS missionaries search out opportunities for conversion in the less educated parts of the world where illiteracy is extremely high.  By that, I mean, if one looks at the efforts of LDS in countries south of the American border, you will find illiteracy rates that are in excess of 70%.

 

There is no point in disputing the numbers.  I have been involved in literacy programs for 5 years and the fact is, you can more easily sway someone, with emotion and power of persuasion, who does not read  or more importantly cannot read.  They have no real ability to study or collect thoughts of reason based on information contained within them or discovered by study.  Nothing to study if you can't read, you just take others words for truth.

 

Where is the proof that LDS efforts and growth at directed at countries with lower illiteracy rates?

10 New Missions to be Created, 14 to be Discontinued

Ireland Dublin Mission, one of the missions in Chicago, and a mission or two in Australia will be discontinued.

 

New missions include Peru Cuzco, Guatemala, Philipines, Democratic Republic of Congo Lubumbashi and more.  All new missions being formed outside the U.S. are in areas that have indisputably high illiteracy rates. 

 

A new mission in St George, Utah will stretch all the way to Farmington, New Mexico and is likely being built to support LDS immigrants to the areas of  traditional LDS communities.

 

However, it is interesting to note the total number of missions worldwide will fall by four from 344 to 340.

 

 

Now to the Student Manual for Missionaries and their program for conversion.

 

President Gordon B. Hinckley explained the importance of the Book of Mormon in relation to the Church and the Bible:
“If the Book of Mormon is true, the Church is true, for the same authority under which this sacred record came to light is present and manifest
among us today. It is a restoration of the Church set up by the Savior in Palestine. It is a restoration of the Church set up by the Savior when he visited
this continent as set forth in this sacred record.

 

Okay, so the reasoning is the same as defense of the Bible, which unlike Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, etc, has historical proof of certain events and the geography, where the events took place, is undisputed and the Bible is very stark proof of it's own provenance.

 

Gordon Hinckley continues:

"If the Book of Mormon is true, the Bible is true...."

 

And yet LDS claims the Bible to be rife with mistakes, lost books or purposely misleading.  This while they claim right to the very same scriptures, but maintain interprations of convenience, by way of contrivance.

 

President Benson also offered inspired counsel regarding how to use the Book of Mormon to respond to objections investigators(read possible converts) may have to the restored truths of the gospel:
“We are to use the Book of Mormon in handling objections to the Church. . . .
“. . . All objections, whether they be on abortion, plural marriage, seventh-day worship, etc., basically hinge on whether Joseph Smith and his successors were and are prophets of God receiving divine revelation.

 

• Here, then, is a procedure to handle most objections through the use of the Book of Mormon.
  “First, understand the objection.
  “Second, give the answer from revelation.
  “Third, show how the correctness of the answer really depends on whether or not we have modern revelation through modern prophets.
  “Fourth, explain that whether or not we have modern prophets and revelation really depends on whether the Book of Mormon is true.

So LDS recognizes there are real objections to their faith and to be fair so does Traditional Christianity.  Both have plans for conversions with the key difference between the two being as follows:

 

Church of Christ Latter Day Saints:

Their premise is that most converts come from the foundation of Traditional Christianity, which forms the basis of belief for their doctrine, which is of a slightly different story.  They hold that converts are worshipping Apostate Religions and they are the One True Church and therefore the only arbiters of ones future when it comes to eternal salvation.

 

No reason to look further than where ever you find Christians you will find LDS missionaries teaching a new way of thinking,  a new road to salvation and of a superior system that plays to man's innate vanity and hope to be something  more, such as deifying oneself through work.

 

But first they start their premise with unworthiness and shame the Christian into believing they have been had.  With no real defense of literacy and learnedness the most important decision in one's life is now called into question.

 

What will you do?  If the Book of Mormon is true and your heart is open to learning it's truth, you can be saved.  Bit of a canard and a highly charged emotional question that is a leading question of conscious, heart and spirit.

 

Traditional Christianity:

Here we find missionaries seeking out converts not from other religions but from souls of sola fide(by faith alone) and those very converts come from areas where God, in the light of Traditional Christianity, are not understood by lost souls nor has the salvation of Jesus Christ reached them yet.  Here we can think of China, North Korea, Middle East or Russia where God is a challenge to their authority, especially in the form of Christianity and is therefore outlawed.

 

The difference in Christianity and Mormonism goes to Sola Fide.

 

In Sola Fide we find salvation by God's grace and Jesus paying the ultimate sacrafice and the only path to eternal salvation and it is brought to you by faith alone that your pardon is secure, forever, through the gift of God, who recognizes that man could never hope to work his way to heaven or pay for his salvation as he is an imperfect being.

 

And so "For God so loved the World, he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life".

 

Mormons teach a version of God's greatest gift but if comes with qualifiers.  Their belief, in direct contradiction to historical Christian Doctrine, is one must some how become worthy to enter into God's kingdom.  How does one become worthy? There is no answer of specific definition, only that you must perform certain works showing your worthiness and that Joseph Smith will be the one who approves your "Passport" to heaven.  Yes, they do use the term passport in their doctrine, though one wonders what information should be contained in that passport.

 

 

And yet God tells "For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God"  "There is none worthy, No, not one".  Seems pretty clear that God didn't even bother so single anyone out just lumped us all into a definition of lesser beings, who has shown great mercy on despite our incredible shortcomings.

 

Jesus tells us"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God". (John 3:4-5)

 

Paul in his letter to the Ephesians:
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” -Ephesians 2:8,9

 

“Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.” –James 2:19.  This presents a huge conflict with Mormon belief that one can become a god, just like God.  It doesn't appear God agrees or approves.

 

“Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” –James 2:18.  So we are being presented with what the effect of faith is and that is: a belief, truly of the heart and spirit, will result in works demonstrating your walk in and with Christ.  It will be plainly apparent and motivated by spirit to excersise works of God in daily action or in specific witness of testimony.

 

Now in the Student Manual for Missionaries, of LDS, on page 77 we find the beginning discussion of Apostacy, in which the LDS begin to lay the foundation for proof of a foul religious belief and that theirs is the one and only true way:

Under the direction of Jesus Christ, the priesthood and the Church were restored through His servants.
The Restoration dispelled the darkness of the Apostasy. Priesthood authority was restored.
Through the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Lord organized His Church again upon the earth so that the saving principles and ordinances of the gospel could be correctly administered in order to help people come unto Christ.

 

President Gordon B. Hinckley also bore witness that the Church of Jesus Christ has been restored:
“This is the restored Church of Jesus Christ. . . . We testify that the heavens have been opened, that the curtains have been parted, that God has spoken, and that Jesus Christ has manifested Himself, followed by a bestowal of divine authority.

 

“Jesus Christ is the cornerstone of this work, and it is built upon a ‘foundation of . . . apostles and prophets’ (Ephesians 2:20)” (in Conference Report,
Oct. 2002, 87; or Ensign, Nov. 2002, 81).

Really?  How can Mormons possilby quote scripture from a book that was organized in the fourth century and specifically call out scripture by chapter and verse, even though they have their provenance in other religions, which are antithetical to your belief and an apostacy in the view of LDS?

 

And now begins the teaching of conversion from other faiths and the superiority of Mormonism with their unique and new scripture:

 

Elder Robert D. Hales of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles explained that faith is part of the fertile ground that nourishes conversion:
“The first seeds of conversion begin with an awareness of the gospel of Jesus Christ and a desire to know the truth concerning His restored Church.
‘Let this desire work in you’ (Alma 32:27). A desire to know the truth is like a seed which grows in the fertile ground of faith, patience, diligence and
long-suffering (see Alma 32:27–41). . . .

 

The Church of Christ Latter Day Saints makes no pretense as to who their target market is for conversion.

 

Elder Dallin H. Oaks taught that conversion requires a complete willingness to give up all practices contrary to the teachings of the restored
gospel:

“The gospel of Jesus Christ challenges us to change. ‘Repent’ is its most frequent message, and repenting means giving up all of our practices—
personal, family, ethnic, and national—that are contrary to the commandments of God. The purpose of the gospel is to transform common
creatures into celestial citizens, and that requires change” (in Conference Report, Oct. 2003, 39; or Ensign, Nov. 2003, 37).

 

So I could finish a whole dissortation on the subject of specific market converts and what LDS has to say about their doctrine but, suffice to say they are well aware of opposition to their faith and have a plan to counter objections.

 

Also, we are given specific demands of faith, by LDS, in their writings.  So why the opposition to being "called on the carpet" as it were?

 

I think down deep, many in LDS know there are some real challenges in the history of their formation, by "Apostles" and "Prophets".  They also know their founders had some real errors of heart and spirit, such as having several wives and even taking the wives of other men and then having those men officiate or act as witness to their wife being taken by another man.

 

Talk about losing your way.  I mean, what man would accept that god had commanded and ordained another man to take his wife?  Where would you scriptural imprimatur for such a thing?  No where.

 

[Vendome]

Topic	Christian	Mormon
GOD	There is only one God (Isaiah 43:11; 44:6,8; 45:5).	"And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3).
	God has always been God (Psalm 90:2; Isaiah 57:15).	"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see," (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).
	God is a spirit without flesh and bones (John 4:24; Luke 24:39).	"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's," (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22; Compare with Alma 18:26-27; 22:9-10). "Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
TRINITY	The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in all the universe and that He exists in three eternal, simultaneous persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.	The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).
JESUS	Jesus was born of the virgin Mary (Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23).	"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115). "Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 547).
	Jesus is the eternal Son. He is second person of the Trinity. He has two natures. He is God in flesh and man (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2;9) and the creator of all things (Col. 1:15-17).	Jesus is the literal spirit-brother of Lucifer, a creation (Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).
THE HOLY SPIRIT	The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. He is not a force. He is a person. (Acts 5:3-4; 13:2)	Mormonism distinguishes between the Holy Spirit (God's presence via an essence) and the Holy Ghost (the third god in the Mormon doctrine of the trinity). "He [the Holy Ghost] is a being endowed with the attributes and powers of Deity, and not a mere force, or essence," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 144).
SALVATION	Salvation is the forgiveness of sin and deliverance of the sinner from damnation. It is a free gift received by God's grace (Eph. 2:8; Rom. 6:23) and cannot be earned (Rom. 11:6).	Salvation has a double meaning in Mormonism: universal resurrection and . . . "The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79).
	Salvation (forgiveness of sins) is not by works (Eph. 2:8; Rom. 4:5; Gal. 2:21).	"As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements -- 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,'" (Articles of Faith, p. 79).
BIBLE	The inspired inerrant word of God (2 Tim. 3:16). It is authoritative in all subjects it addresses.	"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. . ." (8th Article of Faith of the Mormon Church).

This is only a sample of many of the differences between Christianity and Mormonism. As you can see, they are quite different doctrines.