Posted on 03/25/2011 9:19:12 AM PDT by Colofornian
Written by a local ex-Mormon Christian friend of mine: —
This is the Christ of Mormonism:
1. He lives as a humanoid god on a star near Kolob along with his father god, bound by the physical world; he does not transcend the material.
2. He is the brother of satan.
3. He had to earn his own salvation while he was on earth.
4. He offers his “grace” only to those who work hard enough.
5. He is not from everlasting to everlasting, but was created a finite time ago by his father god, who in turn was also created by his own father god, who in turn was created by his own father god, so on and so forth
6. He is not the greatest being possible.
7. He is finite.
8. His blood is not powerful enough to wipe away any sin.
9. He aided his father in creating earth by organizing already existing matter; he is not capable of creating things out of nothing.
10. He must submit to a moral law that existed before he did.
11. You can one day become just like him.
This is the Christ of the Bible:
1. He is a spirit being that transcends space and time.
2. He is the brother of no creature; He is God, from everlasting to everlasting. No one can claim kinship with Him except those He purchased for Himself on the cross. And He is not the same type of creature they are. He is not a creature, He is God.
3. Jesus is the Author of Salvation; to say that He needed to earn His salvation is absurdity.
4. He offers His sovereign grace to whomever He sovereignly chooses; we are all tainted by sin and vile in His holy eyes. Therefore, no one is more worthy than any other human being. Thus, His grace that He offers is given unconditionally. His grace is true grace, a beautiful gift.
5. He is from everlasting to everlasting. He was never created, and Has been in relationship with the Father and the Holy Spirit forever.
6. He is the greatest being possible, the Most High God. There is no one like Him and there is no one who will ever be anything like Him.
7. He is infinite, both in essence and in His divine perfections.
8. His blood is powerful enough to wipe away any sin, regardless of heinousness and duration. The only sin that cannot be forgive is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; and this is not because the blood of Christ is not powerful enough to wash it away, but because God has so sovereignly decreed that all persons who blaspheme the Holy Ghost should not receive forgiveness.
9. He created everything that exists out of nothing by the mere word of His mouth.
10. There is no external law that He submits to; He is the Author and the Source of the Law.
11. No one can ever come near to obtaining the glory and excellency of Christ.
Dang!
What was her crime of unworthiness, she tried to restore her relationship with her father (my uncle) after a falling out that was encouraged by the then bishop of her ward. For trying to restore the relation ship with her father, mormonISM killed her.
So sorry for your loss...but your story is quite common and I have seen similar things happen when mormonism exerts its powers over the sheep.
CULT BEHAVIOR, NOT CHRISTIAN BEHAVIOR!
Now you are arguing like a mormon. Just because the ruach hakodesh comes from G-d doesnt mean it is G-d.
G-d NEVER equates Himself with or includes the holy spirit as part of Him or forms a godhead with the holy spirit. Again, when G-d introduces Himself to the Nation at Sinai, he does NOT include a spirit or a god-man hybrid as part of His oneness. For you to claim that 1500 years later, G-d changes his revealed nature and then tell us to worship, give glory and accept as savior this god-man hybrid, when G-d repeatedly insists He is alone is HERESY!
It is the same heresy as the mormon claiming that since G-d "walked" with adam, he must be a physical man.
You are reading into the text...eisegesis your heretical bias. You have shot the arrow and then are painting the target around the arrow and claiming a bullseye.
We see this TriUNITY
Tri=3...1 is a true unity not three. You can spin it like a liberal all you want. But G-d isnt fooled.
Isaiah 45:5-6 I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God; I will strengthen you . . . . In order that they know from the shining of the sun and from the west that there is no one besides Me; I am the Lord and there is no other!
Very clear. No Other. No one besides Me. Notice he NEVER SAYS...Besides me is my son and the holy spirit....we are three yet one. NEVER!
Isaiah 40:18 To whom then will you liken God? To what likeness will you compare unto Him?
To whom? To what LIKENESS? The likeness of a god-man hybrid? Heresy!
Isaiah 40:25 “To whom then will you liken Me, that I should be his equal?” says the Holy One.
To whom? Who is his EQUAL? A god-man hybrid? Heresy!
Isaiah 63 you are again thinking like a mormon. You are taking a preconcieved bias then looking to justify it by eisegetically interpreting the passages. G-d doesnt sneak in three personalities getting credit. That is a mormon-esqe cobbling together of scripture to overturn the VERY CLEAR passages and the TOTAL absence to a direct and forthright decree by G-d.
You are spinning like a liberal to defend your heresy.
Forgot to add my friends husband is a Rabbi.
Now YOU are telling G-d that he must be like a man? Needing to be social? You are casting your anthropomorphic feelings onto G-d. You accuse me of having a mumbling unity but then you give G-d a buddy to talk to? Who is actually himself? That is more twisted than a unity talking to himself. You make G-d with Dissociative identity disorder. He need to love his other 2 personalites which are really him. They put people in a rubber room for that kind of thinking.
If you see vapor ascending from the water, they are both one. Yet the water embodied in the pool is not in vapor form.
Yes of course water is water regardless of form, so what. G-d is an infinite indivisible singularity. Which means you cant divide him into 3 personalites, seperate, yet one. For the umpteenth time...G-d would have clearly...directly...and unambiguously said so, if He was a 3 in 1 being. HE DOES NOT. Show me ONE verse in which G-d says, I am the lord your god who being one, is three. I am the lord your god who has a son and he is me and I am him. I have a holy spirit and He is me and I am him and so forth.
Do you see such a verse? No! You see this:
Isaiah 40:18 To whom then will you liken God? To what likeness will you compare unto Him?
Isaiah 40:25 “To whom then will you liken Me, that I should be his equal?” says the Holy One.
Isaiah 44:6-8 This is what the Lord says, Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty, “I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no God! Who then is like Me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and lay out before Me . . . . Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”
Isaiah 46:9 Remember the first things of old, that I am God and there is no other; I am God and there is none like Me.
TAKE HIM AT HIS WORD! Stop being a heretic and an idolater! You think G-d is going to overlook you trying to shoe-horn a god-man hybrid into him? G-d goes out of his way to show humanity that he is One. MONOtheism. Over and over again. I am alone. I am one. Besides Me no other. no other savior...And what do christians do? Oh He does really mean it! We will use the obscure to overturn the CLEAR! We will tell G-d what He really means and what His nature really is!In SPITE on the clear evidence to the contrary. And that is EXACTLY what YOU accuse mormons of doing!
Angry? Huh? I am not the least bit angry. Dont mistake passion for anger.
A Jewish person teaching Old Testament? And New Testament? Must not be an Orthodox Jew. Well that is fine. You asked me what E said that was heretical. I gave you a very explicit answer. And you say it was anger. But curiously you offer no evidence to the contrary. And hey, do this, share that post with your Jewish Rabbi friend and see if they disagree! Have them join the thread, even better!
Did Jesus bring world peace? No. Did he bring a universal knowlege of G-d? No. Did he restore the lost tribes?No. Did he restore the Holy Temple? No. Infact the Temple still stood. Did he retore the pristhood and sacrifices? No. Did he restore the Jewish people to Torah? No. The world has been in total chaos ever since he was here.
He is not the messiah and there a no do-overs, second comings mentioned, ever, in the Tanach (OT)
As I look at the world events, the resoration of the Jewish people to our national homeland, the amont of Torah study in Israel, the bountiful production of the Land of Israel for its Jewish people, the miraculous protection HaShem has provided His people since teir return, the rise of the Jewish nation from the ash heaps of the Shoah to today, mearly 62 years later as the 24th largest economy in the world, with more patents per capita than anyone nation on earth, the advancements in medical, science, technology from this tiny 60 year old country......all this CLEARLY means we are in the era of redemption. Moshiach can arrive at any time! G-d has demonstrated to all who love him and seek him, that history is vindicating the Jewish narrative...not the Christian.
Proverbs 30:4
Who has gone up to heaven and come down?
Whose hands have gathered up the wind?
Who has wrapped up the waters in a cloak?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and what is the name of his son?
Surely you know!
Proverbs 30:4
Who has gone up to heaven and come down?
Whose hands have gathered up the wind?
Who has wrapped up the waters in a cloak?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and what is the name of his son?
Surely you know!
Here's a HERESY for you!
John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
John 3:16-18
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Don't you mean SOME of His word?
Curiously, the New Testement is NOT 'evidence' to you.
I understand.
WHO???
Interesting information.
Straw man. Since when is the Holy Spirit a man?
And before the Son of God was a man, He was was indeed the Son of God from eternity past.
Which means you cant divide him into 3 personalites, seperate, yet one
Who "divides" Him? (YOU do) Your juvenile mathematical formula for imposing your view upon the Trinity is 1 ÷ 3 = 1/3rd. Some Jews think it to be 1+1+1 = 3.
But even math eminates from God: 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 God is complete in Himself, yet multiplied upon Himself is still ONE.
Blasater, you give us your take on these OT texts, mostly Isaiah, but has it ever occurred to you that Christ’s 12 disciples, Paul, and the entire early church until Acts 10, were strict monotheist Jews also? They were fully aware of all these texts you used.
What makes you think you know more than than the 12 Apostles and the early Jewish church? They lived aprox. 2000 years closer to the events at issue here than you. You are Johnny come lately that has set yourself up as the last word on OT monotheism.
Truth is, your monotheism is no different from the Islamics...your bitter enemies who’d love to kill all of you if they could. Your God is ensconsed afar off in his unique oneness, with no transcendence of himself to mankind. Similar to the “En Soph” of the Kabbalists, and the so called “true God” of the Gnostics.
What you can’t see, and what your fellow Christian Jews of the early church did see, is that the Messiah’s name, Immanuel, really did mean God with us. This unique and far-distant-from-man God of Judaism (that you espouse) closed the distance by becoming “with us.” Mattthew, your fellow Jew, understood Isa. 7:14 aright, the Messiah was the Son of God born of a virgin, Immanuel, God with us.
“That which was from the beginning,” John, another of your fellow Jews, said, we have heard, we have seen with our eyes, we have handled, 1 John 1:1. He was talking about this Islamic-like God of yours.
That’s the straight dope from one of your fellow Jews some 2000 years ago: this remote God of yours, totally remote from mankind, became identified with suffering mankind, he became “with us.” He became mankind’s redeemer.
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