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Cessationism Refuted [i.e. Gifts & Operations of HS Stopped at End of Rev]
http://www.charlescarrinministries.com/ [Partially] ^ | 28 FEB 2010 | Charles Carrin & Steven Lambert

Posted on 03/21/2011 5:09:22 PM PDT by Quix

On February 28, 2010, in Charismatic Gifts, False teaching, Real Truth, by admin

My good friend, Charles Carrin, as a Baptist pastor for more than twenty-five years, was much like Apollos before Priscilla and Aquila “took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately” (Ac. 18:24-26). Like Apollos, he was “an eloquent man…and he was mighty in the Scriptures,” he “had been instructed in the way of the Lord” in Baptist schools, was “fervent in spirit,” and “was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus,” meaning the Gospel of Christ’s sacrifice. However, Charles, like Apollos and myriad other sincere and fervent traditional denominational ministers today, was “acquainted only with the baptism of John,” the original Baptist.

This simply was the way it was for this very eloquent and learned Bible scholar and teacher for nearly three decades of service as a Baptist pastor, until one day when, in the midst of severe trial and spiritual dryness and emptiness, he had a personal encounter with the Holy Spirit, and despite all his refutations, protestations, and contrarian beliefs, was thoroughly IMMERSED or BAPTIZED in both the water and the fire of the Holy Spirit! Himself and his theology were forever changed! From that day forward, cessation theories for Charles Carrin were thoroughly expunged from his theology, but more importantly, from his personal relationship with the God-Head. From that day forward, he had no more questions regarding the reality of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, no not one!

After nearly eighty years of living and over sixty in the Kingdom, Charles has come to some specific conclusions concerning what the Spirit says in the Word of God about the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as well as the Dunamis-Power of God unto supernatural manifestations of the Spirit throughout the Church Age. This learned and articulate servant of God in this article does a masterful job of refuting the wholly indefensible cessation theories espoused by so many denominations and so-called “fundamentalists” today, who, unfortunately, continue to “invalidate the Word of God by their traditions.”

KINGDOM FAITH OR KINGDOM FICTION — WHICH IS IT?
By Charles Carrin

The New Testament gospel is powerful, eternal, perpetually true. Two thousand years after its presentation to the world it is still relevant, unabridged, unchallengeable. When Charles Spurgeon was asked how he defended the gospel, he replied, “I don’t defend the gospel any more than I would defend a lion. I just open the cage and let it out.”

Jesus called His message the “gospel of the Kingdom.” That message has never been, nor will ever be changed. Nor will it become a gospel of the church. The Kingdom knows no failure. The Kingdom is triumphant, victorious, all-conquering. The Kingdom is permanent, unchanging. The Kingdom needs no such excuse. To absolve herself of blame.

The church is subject to great failure. The church is schismatic, self-indulging, unreliable. The church is temporal, justifies herself and vindicates her failures. The church has invented an escape-hatch called Cessationist Theology. This pleasant sounding expression declares that God has withdrawn the Holy Spirit’s miraculous power from the church. The church has a book — the Bible — and little more than that. We have no power because God has removed it. The fault is not our’s.

Much of modern, evangelical Christianity is a parallel of the ministry of Apollos. It is sincere, eloquent, accurately teaching Bible truth as far as it allows itself to believe. But its doctrine is measured by its own opinion–it is afraid to measure its doctrine by Scripture.

Dispensationalism — the claim that miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit passed away — dominates traditional Christianity. Jesus said there would be no such change. Hear His words: “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matthew 28:20. Jesus fully expected the church “at the end of the age” to believe and teach “all things” that He had commanded the original disciples.

The Apostle Jude did not believe the cessationist claim. Instead, he presented one of the New Testament’s strongest defenses for the gospel’s unalterability. He said, “I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3). The “once for all” in our English Bibles comes from a valuable little Greek word, “hapax.” In spite of its small size hapax carries significant authority. It means: “one, a single time, conclusively, absolutely all, every one.”

This hapax-expression appears at least eight times in the Greek New Testament. It is translated “once for all” five times in the New King James Version. Three additional times the New International Version translates it as “once.” In every instance hapax establishes the unchangeability of its subject. Six of the references below apply directly to Jesus, one applies to the believer, and the final one to Kingdom faith. In four instances in the Greek text the preposition “epi” (upon) is added to reinforce the “once for all” meaning.

The Hapax Scriptures

1. Romans 6:10. “For the death that Jesus died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.”

2. Hebrews 7:27. “Who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this Jesus did once for all when He offered up Himself.”

3. Hebrews 9:12. “Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood Jesus entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.”

4. Hebrews 9:26-27. “He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.”

5. Hebrews 10:2-3. For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins.

6. Hebrews 10:10. “By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

7. 1 Peter 3:18. “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

8. Jude 3. “Beloved … I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.”

To which of these hapax–”once for all” — passages are you willing to apply Cessation Theology? Would your theology be complete if any of the “once for all” references were removed from the work of Jesus? Would you like any of these subjects to be vulnerable to change? Are you genuinely glad that they are “hapax” — “once for all” — secure? If so, it is impossible for you to endorse Cessationist Theology. You cannot accept the works of Jesus as hapax and then deny the Holy Spirit the same respect in His maintaining hapax in the permanency of Scripture. You cannot do it and uphold integrity with the Word!

Modern Christianity has convinced itself that Jesus provided two distinct gospels and two distinct faiths — one for the first century church and one for those who followed after. The first was miraculously empowered; the second was not. The first had the baptismal gift of the Holy Spirit; the second was merely given a book telling what the Holy Spirit had achieved in the past. Hear the truth: Jesus provided everyone — past, present, future — with a faith which was hapax-true, hapax-strong, hapax-forever.

The fact is this: Whether you and I accept it or not, the original “faith that was once for all delivered to the saints” is still intact. It is unaltered. In a conclusive, unchangeable way the faith of the Apostolic Era was delivered for “all time” intact to every subsequent generation. There will never be another.

Someone argues, “But I have never seen the miraculous works of the Holy Spirit in my church!” True. But the fault lies with the church, not with God. The contemporary church is a victim of its own unbelief. It has created its blighted condition.

Observe that the Apostle Jude said he:

1. Found it “necessary”

2. To “exhort you”
3. To “contend earnestly”

This agrees perfectly with Jesus’ instruction in Matthew 28:18-20 that believers to “the end of the age” be taught to “observe all things that I have commanded you” (the original disciples). Then, as if to emphasize the unchangeability of the gospel’s time-span, He said, “Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Observe the expression “all things”. What did He mean by that expression? Scripture does not leave us to wonder. Matthew 10:7-9 makes it very plain: “As you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.” When He said, “teach them all things…to the end of the age,” this is what He meant.

The obvious message is that the gospel — and the faith arising from it — have been permanently given one time and will never be given again. That initial provision is sufficient “once for all” time and “once for all” people. In an emphatic way, this says that New Testament faith, doctrinally and experientially, as it was originally presented by the Holy Spirit, is unchangeable. It cannot be added to or taken from. Any cessationist claim otherwise is a hoax. Such an accusation insults the Cross and the work of the Holy Spirit (cf., 2 Peter 1:21).

Even so, the idea is rampant in modern Christianity that parts of the Covenant-Book which Jesus ratified by the sprinkling of His blood (Hebrews 9:11-15), have lost validity. This supposedly occurred at the death of the Apostle John in 70 a.d., or when the New Testament books were canonized into one volume in a.d. 367.

The truth is, modern Christians have invented that monstrous idea. We have done so because we do not want accountability for our own failures. If we can justify the absence of God’s miraculous presence by claiming He withdrew it from us, we don’t have to accept blame for our having withdrawn ourselves from Him.

The Bible’s Example

The Book of Acts gives us a working model of a conscientious, godly pastor who preached a powerless gospel. Like many today, Apollos was pastor of a small, struggling congregation. He was faithful, loved God, served the congregation, but was totally bereft of power. While he was away from his home at Ephesus, Paul came and found his church of 12 male disciples with wives and children. In spite of Apollos having excellent credentials for ministry, Paul immediately recognized powerlessness in the man’s flock. Both Paul and Apollos were servants of God, both equally loved the church, and each possessed vast knowledge of Scripture. Even so, a major discrepancy existed between their ministries. Paul had power; Apollos did not. Paul preached the gospel of the Kingdom; Apollos obviously knew nothing about it.

In light of the Apostle Jude’s exhortation to “contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints,” we see how Apollos — though innocent of any evil intent — had accepted a partial gospel and experienced partial results. The ministries of Paul and Apollos are a parallel of pastors and churches today. I emphasize the fact that Apollos was ignorant because he had never been taught — not because he had knowingly rejected the truth. In our day pastors fall into two groups: Those who have never been taught and are innocently ignorant of spiritual gifts and those who willfully reject spiritual gifts. Carefully observe these seven facts which Scripture records about Apollos:

1. He was a Jew.
2. An eloquent man.
3. Mighty in Scripture.
4. Instructed in the way of the Lord.
5. Fervent in spirit.
6. Taught accurately the things of the Lord.
7. But: He knew only the “baptism of John” — that is, he knew nothing about the Baptism in the Spirit. He had a partial gospel and a partial faith.

When Paul recognized spiritual-powerlessness in the Ephesians, he asked the all-revealing question, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They responded, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” This tragic ignorance existed because Apollos knew only the “baptism of John.” He knew nothing about the baptism in the Holy Spirit and had left his congregation in that same condition. Paul immediately instructed the Ephesians about the Holy Spirit’s empowering and when he “laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.” That event proved to be a cataclysmic change not only for Ephesus but for the rest of the Roman world.

Under Apollos’ ministry, the church at Ephesus accomplished absolutely nothing to awaken the city. It demonstrated no Kingdom power, remained spiritually paralyzed, and except for the local Synagogue, its presence was virtually unknown. In that state, the congregation had no effective witness, made no impact on the people, was no threat to “powers, principalities, rulers of the darkness of this world,” etc. Instead, the dark cloud of paganism gripped the land with unchallenged control. The Temple of Diana — or Artemas — already famous as the greatest of all Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, dominated the area. It was in the shadow of this formidable enemy that this minuscule church, ineffective and unknown, lay dormant.

That changed when Paul arrived. When he came on the scene, Ephesus experienced a “Kingdom of God” earthquake. Paul was not the power but he was the instrument for the truth that produced the shaking. He merely provided the window through whom the power roared; Apollos and twelve other windows were already present in Ephesus but they had never been opened.

Jesus Said “The Scripture Cannot Be Broken”

“Jesus answered them, ‘Is it not written in your law*, ‘I said, “You are gods’? If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him. Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.” (John 10:34-40) [*Psalm 82:6]

Jesus reminded the Jews that it was David — not Himself — who first wrote about God miraculously empowering the saints. Those fortunate ones to whom “the word of God comes” are so changed and endowed that in the eyes of the demonic-world — in a comparative sense — they become gods (with a little “g”). Simply stated, Jesus intended the saints to exercise power over the demonic realm (cf., Luke 10:19).

It was Jesus who said “The Scripture CANNOT be broken.” That means that the New Testament is still intact. No part is out-dated and it cannot be victimized by cessationist teaching. In believing it we open ourselves to receive a miraculous imparting of its “word”. Those to whom the word of God comes are changed from ordinary humanity into extraordinary humanity. The “word of the Lord came” to Abraham, Samuel, Nathan, Gad, Solomon, Elijah, Elisha, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Haggai, Zechariah, John the Baptist, the first disciples, others. All of these experienced transformation when the “word of God” came to them. This is the only sensible explanation for the explosive growth of Christianity in the Roman world.

What Happens Today When The True “Word of God” Comes With Power?

1. Psalm 107:19-20. “Then they cried unto the LORD in their trouble, and he saved them out of their distresses. He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.”

2. Matthew 8:16-17. “When evening had come, they brought unto him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with His word, and healed all who were sick: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, He Himself took our infirmities, and bore our sicknesses.”

3. Luke 4:31-36. “Then He went down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days. And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power. And in the synagogue there was a man, who had a spirit of an unclean demon, and he cried out with a loud voice, Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with you, Jesus of Nazareth? Did you come to destroy us? I know you who you are — the Holy One of God. But Jesus rebuked him, saying, Be quiet and come out of him. And when the demon had thrown him in their midst, it came out of him, and did not hurt him. Then they were all amazed, and spoke among themselves, saying, What a word is this! For with authority and power he commands the unclean spirits, and they come out.”

4. Acts 2:40-41. “And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, Be saved from this perverse generation. Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that about three thousand souls were added unto them.”

5. Titus 1:1-3. “Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began; But has in due times manifested his word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior.”

6. I John 2:4-6. “He who says, I know him, and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him: By this know we that we are in him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.” (The “Word” is already perfected, so what is being perfected? The one who receives the word.)

7. Luke 1:38. Mary was impregnated when she told the angel, “Be it unto me according to your word.”

8. Matthew 4:4. Jesus said: “But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”

9. Matthew 24:35. Jesus said: “Heaven and earth shall pass a way but My words will by no means pass away.”

10. God the Father said: “My Covenant I will not break nor alter the Word that is gone out of my lips.” Psalm 89:34.

11. John 17:8. Jesus said to the Father: “For I have given to them (the disciples) the words which You have given Me, and they have received them….”

12. I Peter 1:25. Peter said: “But the word of the Lord endures forever. Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.”

13. II Peter 1:21. Peter said again: “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”

14. II Timothy 3:16. Paul said: “Be diligent…rightly diving the word of truth.” II Timothy 2:1. Paul said again: “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable.”

15. Galatians 1:8. Paul said once more: “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.”

16. Psalm 119:89. David said: “Forever, O Lord, Your Word is settled in Heaven.”

If you are one of those believers whose Cessationist Theology denies the integrity of Scripture or the Holy Spirit’s miraculous gifts, stop it! You are on the losing team! You are on God’s opposing team!

Kingdom faith is fact, not fiction! Hapax — “once for all.”###

Charles Carrin
Apr 23, 2009


CHARLES CARRIN’S ministry spans the final half of the twentieth century. He was ordained in 1949 and in his youth traveled with men who preached in the 1800′s. For the first twenty-seven years of his ministry, Charles was a hyper-Calvinist Baptist pastor and Presbyterian seminarian who denied the miraculous works of the Holy Spirit. Mid-way in his ministry that abruptly changed. Personal crisis forced him to acknowledge Scriptures he had previously ignored. It was a time of intense pain and testing. The truths he saw were frightening; they had power to destroy his denominational ministry and at that point he had no hope that another, more wonderful ministry awaited him. As a result of his submitting to God in that crisis, Charles emerged with an amazing anointing of the Holy Spirit. Today, his ministry centers upon the visible demonstration of the Spirit and imparting of His gifts. This new ministry has taken him to London’s Westminster Chapel, the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship, and other significant places. He, R.T. Kendall, the former, 25 year pastor at Westminster Chapel, and Jack Taylor, former Vice President of the Southern Baptist Convention, travel together holding “Word, Spirit, Power, Conferences.” As an evangelist/writer, Charles’ articles have appeared in major Christian magazines in the United States and abroad. He travels extensively, teaching believers how to operate in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Charles Carrin Ministries


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: cessationism; dispensationalism; holyspirit; miracles
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To: Gamecock; Joya; Quix

In fact, why do you, Gamecock say: “This goes to what the Reformers taught; that is the “enthusiasts” or what we call today Pentecostals, are really no different from the Roman Catholics”


81 posted on 03/29/2011 6:02:14 AM PDT by Cronos (Palin: 2012)
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To: Gamecock; Joya; Quix
Why does your group the OPC/PCA say that
sharply contradicts the view popularized today by the neo-Pentecostal movement. In essence this view would have us believe that we can have the same charismatic gifts that we read about in the age of the Apostles - such as prophecy, speaking in tongues, and healing - today.

This is a very serious error (of the Pentecostals). In essence it is a result of a failure to grasp the Biblical teaching concerning the history of salvation.

If you want to drop out of this group tell us what your new group believes about Pentecostals....
82 posted on 03/29/2011 6:03:14 AM PDT by Cronos (Palin: 2012)
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To: Gamecock; Joya; Quix

Give us some adequate proof that whichever sub-cult of the OPC/PCA you belong to, it supports child molesters and homosexual partnership pastors.


83 posted on 03/29/2011 6:05:33 AM PDT by Cronos (Palin: 2012)
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To: Joya

THX THX


84 posted on 03/29/2011 7:54:42 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

Quix sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner.

I was talking about the signs and wonders, that we are not to “seek a sign” but rather that signs and wonders follow believers.

You mixed up signs and wonders with the gifts. Jesus said (as you know) “it is a wicked generation that seeks after a sign”

I don’t worry about the gifts that much. I have some of them, but they pale in importance to my own heart and my own propensity for fellowship with God and praying that my own sin nature is in check.

The gifts are not what is important it is the Giver.

Bless you and bless all the Freepers, Lord. We need You!


85 posted on 04/01/2011 1:48:58 AM PDT by Sontagged ( Faith without works is dead. This also means incessant prayer without attendant works is dead.)
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To: Sontagged

AGREED.

Important points.

Thx.


86 posted on 04/01/2011 2:04:20 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Sontagged
The gifts are not what is important it is the Giver.

Of course. Yet God may give gifts as He sees fit, when He sees fit. You are correct that we are not to “seek a sign” but rather that signs and wonders follow believers

87 posted on 04/01/2011 2:52:08 AM PDT by Cronos (The OPC/PCA donÂ’t worship the same God we Christians do:)
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To: Quix; All

Happened across this

http://www.watchmanscry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7710

The Watchman’s Cry Forum

An End Time Fellowship Hall


88 posted on 05/01/2011 6:00:42 AM PDT by Joya (Everything is ruined. Jesus is coming back. Something to look forward to, it is more than enough.)
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To: Quix; All

Archive for January, 2010

Internet Collapsing

The Internet is going down. The only means of communication is texting.

Even texting will be sparse most of the time because of low signal strength. With a low signal calls won’t go through but texting will.

January 20, 2010
The Church Change
There is coming a drastic change in the church. It will be the true church of God that will emerge and be revealed.

Some, wealthy to poor, will change but not be able to continue in it.

Some wealthy preachers will say they have made the change but they haven’t really. They just want everyone’s attention with that flamboyant flare for everyone to see.

The change is doing Gods will instead of doing man’s own prideful desires.

The Christian Church as drifted so far away from God that no one realizes or recognizes it anymore.

I saw a four to one ratio. One part the true believer and four parts church with no power of God in it.

The change is coming with or without the churches approval or participation in it.

The change is for the sincere at heart that truly want to serve God.

Those will walk as Jesus walked. He is our mentor and guide.

This will lead to the great falling away.

We will see the church of/with many faces

January 16, 2010

Removing Apostasy

God is removing the many cancers from his body and do that with the help from the woman.

The woman is the church and the cancer is the many false apostate teachings and ministries.

We will always have the false Christ’s, false teachers, false prophets and false ministries out there, but they will be ejected from the TRUE body of Christ.

Please read Jer.23:1-22

January 13, 2010


89 posted on 05/01/2011 6:06:35 AM PDT by Joya (Everything is ruined. Jesus is coming back. Something to look forward to, it is more than enough.)
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http://www.watchmanscry.com


90 posted on 05/01/2011 6:07:27 AM PDT by Joya (Everything is ruined. Jesus is coming back. Something to look forward to, it is more than enough.)
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To: Joya; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; aragorn; auggy; ...
THANKS JOYA,

THIS RINGS TRUE, TO ME:

To: Quix; All

Archive for January, 2010

Internet Collapsing

The Internet is going down. The only means of communication is texting.

Even texting will be sparse most of the time because of low signal strength. With a low signal calls won’t go through but texting will.

January 20, 2010

The Church Change

There is coming a drastic change in the church. It will be the true church of God that will emerge and be revealed.

Some, wealthy to poor, will change but not be able to continue in it.

Some wealthy preachers will say they have made the change but they haven’t really. They just want everyone’s attention with that flamboyant flare for everyone to see.

The change is doing Gods will instead of doing man’s own prideful desires.

The Christian Church as drifted so far away from God that no one realizes or recognizes it anymore.

I saw a four to one ratio. One part the true believer and four parts church with no power of God in it.

The change is coming with or without the churches approval or participation in it.

The change is for the sincere at heart that truly want to serve God.

Those will walk as Jesus walked. He is our mentor and guide.

This will lead to the great falling away.

We will see the church of/with many faces

January 16, 2010

Removing Apostasy

God is removing the many cancers from his body and do that with the help from the woman.

The woman is the church and the cancer is the many false apostate teachings and ministries.

We will always have the false Christ’s, false teachers, false prophets and false ministries out there, but they will be ejected from the TRUE body of Christ.

Please read Jer.23:1-22

January 13, 2010

http://www.watchmanscry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7710

The Watchman’s Cry Forum

An End Time Fellowship Hall

=========================================================

QUIX COMMENTARY: I believe this is accurate.

NOTE. EVERY DENOMINATION, ORGANIZATION, STRUCTURE THAT CALLS ITSELF CHRISTIAN--WILL BE SO AFFECTED.

RC's who believe thier 'MOTHER CHURCH' is exempted from such disciplines of The Lord will be shocked to discover otherwise.

Their choice, as ever, will be go GO WITH GOD--OR GO WITH THE INCREASINGLY DEADLY ORGANIZATION. This will be an extremely hazardous time for many RC's warranting our prayer and compassion. For many cannot conceive of God's will as anything other than through their structure and organization. They are very dangerously wrong.

However, Many Proddys are not THAT different in how they construe their own righteousness and the righteousness of THEIR congregation and organization. They are also very dangerously wrong.

At some point, the COME OUT FROM AMONGST THEM will ring like a clarion call from Holy Spirit. Either whole groups will shift as God directs or the true believers in them MUST leave those groups or be found on the wrong side and against God.

I believe there will be more on this soon.

BTW, argue with me, if you wish. Be a naysayer, if you wish.

Since the retreat, I suspect my face will be MUCH MORE SET LIKE FLINT TOWARD JERUSALEM than ever before.

May God have mercy on all who Call Him Lord.

And He will. Sometimes it will be a SEVERE MERCY as the book title reads.

BTW,

I believe the internet will be going down though it may be spotty for a while before utterly down.

FOLKS WHO HAVE FOUND USEFUL INPUT FROM FR POSTS WOULD DO WELL TO PRINT THEM OFF--ELECTRICITY WILL BE OUT ALSO, AT SOME POINT.

BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.

BLESSED BE THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY.

BLESSED BE THE WORD OF THE LORD.

91 posted on 05/01/2011 7:14:16 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Joya
What is meant by post - millenial?

http://www.gotquestions.org/postmillennialism.html

Postmillennialism is an interpretation of Revelation chapter 20 which sees Christ's second coming as occurring after the “millennium,” a golden age or era of Christian prosperity and dominance. The term includes several similar views of the end times, and it stands in contrast to premillennialism (the view that Christ’s second coming will occur prior to His millennial kingdom and that the millennial kingdom is a literal 1000-year reign) and, to a lesser extent, amillennialism (no literal millennium).

Postmillennialism is the belief that Christ returns after a period of time, but not necessarily a literal 1000 years. Those who hold this view do not interpret unfulfilled prophecy using a normal, literal method. They believe that Revelation 20:4-6 should not be taken literally. They believe that “1000 years” simply means “a long period of time.” Furthermore, the prefix “post-” in “postmillennialism” denotes the view that Christ will return after Christians (not Christ Himself) have established the kingdom on this earth.

Those who hold to postmillennialism believe that this world will become better and better—all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding—with the entire world eventually becoming “Christianized.” After this happens, Christ will return. However, this is not the view of the world in the end times that Scripture presents. From the book of Revelation, it is easy to see that the world will be a terrible place during that future time. Also, in 2 Timothy 3:1-7, Paul describes the last days as “terrible times.”

Those who hold to postmillennialism use a non-literal method of interpreting unfulfilled prophecy, assigning their own meanings to words. The problem with this is that when someone starts assigning meanings to words other than their normal meaning, a person can decide that a word, phrase, or sentence means anything he wants it to mean. All objectivity concerning the meaning of words is lost. When words lose their meaning, communication ceases. However, this is not how God has intended for language and communication to be. God communicates to us through His written word, with objective meanings to words, so that ideas and thoughts can be communicated.

A normal, literal interpretation of Scripture rejects postmillennialism and holds to a normal interpretation of all Scripture, including unfulfilled prophecy. We have hundreds of examples in Scripture of prophecies being fulfilled. Take, for example, the prophecies concerning Christ in the Old Testament. Those prophecies were fulfilled literally. Consider the virgin birth of Christ (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23). Consider His death for our sins (Isaiah 53:4-9; 1 Peter 2:24). These prophecies were fulfilled literally, and that is reason enough to assume that God will continue in the future to literally fulfill His Word. Postmillennialism fails in that it interprets Bible prophecy subjectively and holds that the millennial kingdom will be established by the church, not by Christ Himself.

It's a belief system which involves a lot of adding to and taking away from Scripture. IOW, a false doctrine.

92 posted on 05/01/2011 7:49:06 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: Joya
Also, if you're interested and have some time, take a look at this.

It's quite long, but very thorough in proving that premillennialism is dominant all throughout Scripture.

It's written by Dr. Fruchtenbaum, IMHO one of the absolute best Bible teachers around today.

93 posted on 05/01/2011 7:54:42 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: Quix

Lorica of Saint Patrick
I arise today
Through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,
Through a belief in the Threeness,
Through confession of the Oneness
Of the Creator of creation.

I arise today
Through the strength of Christ’s birth and His baptism,
Through the strength of His crucifixion and His burial,
Through the strength of His resurrection and His ascension,
Through the strength of His descent for the judgment of doom.

I arise today
Through the strength of the love of cherubim,
In obedience of angels,
In service of archangels,
In the hope of resurrection to meet with reward,
In the prayers of patriarchs,
In preachings of the apostles,
In faiths of confessors,
In innocence of virgins,
In deeds of righteous men.

I arise today
Through the strength of heaven;
Light of the sun,
Splendor of fire,
Speed of lightning,
Swiftness of the wind,
Depth of the sea,
Stability of the earth,
Firmness of the rock.

I arise today
Through God’s strength to pilot me;
God’s might to uphold me,
God’s wisdom to guide me,
God’s eye to look before me,
God’s ear to hear me,
God’s word to speak for me,
God’s hand to guard me,
God’s way to lie before me,
God’s shield to protect me,
God’s hosts to save me
From snares of the devil,
From temptations of vices,
From every one who desires me ill,
Afar and anear,
Alone or in a mulitude.

I summon today all these powers between me and evil,
Against every cruel merciless power that opposes my body and soul,
Against incantations of false prophets,
Against black laws of pagandom,
Against false laws of heretics,
Against craft of idolatry,
Against spells of women and smiths and wizards,
Against every knowledge that corrupts man’s body and soul.
Christ shield me today
Against poison, against burning,
Against drowning, against wounding,
So that reward may come to me in abundance.

Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me,
Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ on my right, Christ on my left,
Christ when I lie down, Christ when I sit down,
Christ in the heart of every man who thinks of me,
Christ in the mouth of every man who speaks of me,
Christ in the eye that sees me,
Christ in the ear that hears me.

I arise today
Through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,
Through a belief in the Threeness,
Through a confession of the Oneness
Of the Creator of creation

St. Patrick (ca. 377)


94 posted on 05/01/2011 8:05:20 AM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: Quix

Thanks for the ping!


95 posted on 05/01/2011 8:15:11 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Thanks.


96 posted on 05/01/2011 8:35:07 AM PDT by Joya (Everything is ruined. Jesus is coming back. Something to look forward to, it is more than enough.)
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To: Quix

You can already start to see this in some of the churches
that are tied to the eucamenical movement ... it’s becoming crystal clear that some of these churches are praying to demons.

BTW was listening to news earlier and one of the reporters was talking about Pope John Paul II and how people were praying TO him


97 posted on 05/01/2011 1:22:01 PM PDT by Lera
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To: johngrace

Thanks thanks.


98 posted on 05/01/2011 1:25:34 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Lera

INDEED.

AAARGH.


99 posted on 05/01/2011 1:26:18 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Lera; Quix

We Catholics, none of whom thinks the Church is exempt from discipline, have been praying to saints for a long time. We think that because we are one in the Spirit they can hear us and pray for us.

Some were asking for JP’s prayers before today, but a lot of us celebrated his being acknowledged as “blessed” by asking for his prayers. .


100 posted on 05/01/2011 9:12:26 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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