>”He, like David, would have to wait for that resurrection from the memorial tombs (John 5:28, 29) of the “righteous and unrighteous” sometime in the future. “
Let’s see what Jesus has to say about death and the soul:
Luke 16:19-31
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Where was Lazarus? Answer: In Hell.
Where were his five brothers while Lazarus’s soul was burning in Hell? Answer: They were alive and well, living on planet Earth.
Was Lazarus asleep, awaiting some future resurrection? Answer: No!
Therefore, you do greatly err in not listening to what Christ, Himself has to say on the subject.
Cheers
How did they determine that Christ had died? Were they sure he was dead?
The Catholic Creed states
” ... He descended into Hell. On the third day he arose again ... “
It doesn’t say what He did during those days in Hell.
As children in Catholic school, we were taught that he was meeting and freeing those souls there.
The day of his death was Day One. The next day was Day Two. The day of his resurrection, and of its discovery by the women that came to visit the tomb, was Day Three. On the third day is not the same as three days (72 hours) later, which seems to trouble many minds.
Minute by minute, day by day chronology, is a matter of much significance to the human mind and experience. In other realms, perhaps not so much.
Are we not told that He visited the souls in prison (hell)? I have a recollection of having heard that,but cannot find it written by a cursory search.
For my money, this is the crux of the issue. Everything else is fluff.
I don't care if I'm in limbo when I die, until the 2nd coming, or rapture, or 1000-year-reign. I don't care if I go straight to heaven to reside with Him. It's not my decision, and there's nothing I can do to influence it. It's God's game, and He makes the rules.
I'm just grateful to be a part of it, and that Jesus died so that I might live.
And Jesus is true God and true man, correct?
The second person of the Holy Trinity, correct?
christ went to hell and gathered the peeps that believed in his coming before he came, and remove the keys of death from satan— old testiment= to believe that the messiah will come .. new testiment= to believe the messiah has came and risen from the dead
man was doomed before jesus cause it took a blood sacrafice to remove sin in gods eyes- thats why only a few made it in the old testimement (the flood only noahs family made it, i think 9 peeps)- when jesus (gods son) died, his blood was for all peeps. god accually repented for making man and was going to destoy mankind, thats when gods son jesus stepped in and said he take them- god tells jesus that a blood sacrafice will be needed- so jesus did it- no one goes to father except through me jesus says.. jesus decribes the god head meaning 3 differ peeps- jesus says if you blasphem against god or me it will be forgiven, but if you blasphem against the holy ghost it will not be forgiven. — to prove my point about jesus was around before the old testiment- peeps was asking him why he was changing the law of moses and speaking like he was there cause your only 30 years old, and jesus replied, “BEFORE moses was i was”— and had to escape the crowd before they stoned him
Full public disclosure, here.
You are perfectly happy to openly attest to the Divinity of Jesus, right? Jesus Christ was true God and true man, right?
You are equally happy to attest to the reality of the Most Holy Trinity, correct? Of which Jesus is the second person, correct?
C'mon.......you can do it........out with it!!
Well, wasn't that around the time of MLB opening day? Maybe he watched the Angels play the Padres.
“Jesus said he, “the son of man” was to “be killed and on the third day raised up (resurrected)”. (Luke 9:22) and Peter confirms that this is exactly what occurred at Acts 10:40,41 saying Christ ‘rose from the dead’. “
This was a physical body resurrection, not a spiritual resurrection.
In the story of the rich man and Lazarus we know that Lazarus was in paradise after his death. In what form, we do not know but we do know that the rich man recognized him.(Luke 16:20)
The today is unnecessary ..the thief knew when Jesus was saying it..he did not need to be told
In eternity, He could have "been" an infinite number of places, doing an infinite number of things.
AWESOME!
A questioned answered. Thank you for this post. Appreciate your explanation for coma placement with word “today”.
It was driving me nuts
Oh look, a Jehovah’s Witness thread!
Right...tell me something. What grammatical rule allowed the Watchtower to remove the comma? One has to assume that it wasn't done willy-nilly, that heavy textual and hermeneutical reasons underlied that change.
Let's have them!
-Theo
They were in the same paradise (the ‘nice’ side of Hades) that the beggar Lazarus went to.
His body was in a tomb.
His soul was in Hell, the center of the earth, which would, until the resurrection, contain two compartments : Paradise and "Torments" (a place of burning punishment).
Christ descended into Hell, left our sins there after suffering ; then went through Paradise with the Keys of Hell and of Death, opening the door of Paradise personally and leading "captivity captive," the OT Saints whose souls were there until the Redemption, the "cutting off of Messiah" (Daniel ch. 9) and the Resurrection of Christ, which made the Third Heaven accessible.
This is what "the gates of Hell" not prevailing against the church of Matthew 16 is dealing with. The "Assembly" of the saints could not forever be kept confined in "Hell" (the lower parts of the earth, still containing Abraham's Bosome until then) -- the gates of Hell could NOT prevail against them when Christ with the keys of Hell and death opened the doors to let them out and lead them into the Third Heaven, God's immediate presence.
And more, and more . . .