Mary, Worthy of Honor But a Sinner in Need of a Savior

[count-your-change]

Was Mary, Jesus' mother and wife of Joseph, immaculately conceived, i.e., free of original sin from conception? If we accept the teaching of the Scriptures we must answer, "No". The Bible is not ambiguous on this subject as the inspired writer, the apostle of Christ, Paul, wrote at Romans 5:12: "Well then, sin entered the world through one man (Adam), and through sin death, and thus death has spread through the whole human race because everyone has sinned".(JB)

Mary was part of the human race and grew old and died just as Paul wrote.

As The Catholic Encyclopedia, under the topic, "Immaculate Conception" says, "Genesis 3:15 No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture. But the first scriptural passage which contains the promise of the redemption, mentions also the Mother of the Redeemer. The sentence against the first parents was accompanied by the Earliest Gospel (Proto-evangelium), which put enmity between the serpent and the woman: "and I will put enmity between thee and the woman and her seed; she (he) shall crush thy head and thou shalt lie in wait for her (his) heel" (Genesis 3:15). The translation "she" of the Vulgate is interpretative; it originated after the fourth century, and cannot be defended critically."

Thus, while admitting an "immaculate conception" for Mary is not Scriptural an attempt is made to connect it with Genesis 3:15, an interpretation that "cannot be defended critically". "the woman" of Gen. 3:15 was not Mary, yet further along in the article Mary is termed the "second Eve" and 1 Cor. 15:22 is referred to, which reads:

"For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive".

Mary explains how God would be her savior and that of Israel by fulfilling His promise to Abraham. (Luke 1:54).

[mountn man]

If Mary was free from sin, why did she say
"And Mary said: "My soul exalts the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in
God my Savior."?

Why did Mary need a savior?

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned

Now either Mary was born into sin, as Romans 5:12 states and thus NEEDS a savior-which SHE HERSELF claimed. Romans 5:18 states
So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

Or by being immaculatly conceived, like Christ, as you are claiming, she is without sin-but then, would be without sin. Then her claim for needing a savior would be wrong.

If Mary DID need a savior, as she stated, but was immaculately conceived as you stated, then the very same standard applies to Jesus, who was then LIKEWISE immaculately conceived BUT then ALSO born into sin, who would then also require a savior.

So either Christ is different from Mary,and not requiring a savior, or he is the same as Mary, requiring a savior.

Now, if Jesus is considered by birth to a woman to be man, but being conceived by the spirit, by nature be God. Then the very same applies to Mary, if she were as you claim, immaculately conceived. Mary would be born of a woman be man (human), but being conceived of God, by nature be God.

Thus, if Mary were by her very nature God also, would Christ be God BOTH through Mary and the Holy Spirit? Thus eliminating man from his lineage.

But Luke gives us Jesus' lineage through Mary and Jesus' lineage through Joseph. The two lineages converge at David-But through 2 different sons. Joseph comes through the line of Solomon, heir to the kingdom, thereby making Jesus, heir to the kingdom. But Mary comes from the lineage of Nathan, through blood.

Now what is interesting when you read of the lineages of Mary and Joseph, in Joseph's lineage, Rahab, Bathsheba and Ruth are mentioned. A harlot, an adulterer and a Moabite.

BUT... in Mary's lineage, not one woman is named. Just who the father and son is.

If Mary was immaculately conceived, would not HER MOTHERS lineage need to be known, just as her lineage was needed for Jesus? But the Bible does not give us Mary's mothers lineage, just her fathers.

So IF Mary was immaculately conceived, why post her lineage through her father and not her mother also???

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Show me you quotes from 50 ad that support your claim, please...

[sr4402]

The reason Catholic's insist on Mary's Sinlessness, is that she is their Savior - not the Lord Jesus Christ!

The Ubi Primam of 1849 States "For, God has committed to Mary ... every hope, every grace, and all salvation." This is on the Catholic Website: http://www.ewtn.com/library/encyc/p9ubipr2.htm

But know there is Salvation in no one else but the Lord Jesus Christ. Turn away from the worship of Mary and believing Salvation is in her. She would say to you "Do everything he (The Lord Jesus Christ) says. And the Lord Jesus Christ said "That you believe in He" (the Lord Jesus Christ) "whom He" (God the Father) "has Sent".

Believe upon Christ Alone. Christ plus anything else is not Salvation.

[HossB86]

Christian writers or SCRIPTURE?

I'll take scripture. And the only help needed here is the Holy Spirit to give you eyes to see and ears to hear.

You need it.

Hoss

[LetMarch]

Saving someone from the ditch, or even saving them from going into to the ditch is no comparison to everlasting life, nor eternal salvation!

You know, and I know, our Lord Jesus came to seek and to
save that which is lost. He came to save sinners.

“For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved.”
(John 3:17)

NOW THAT IS THE GOOD NEWS (That is the Gospel)

Mary was saved the same way every sinner is saved! By the offering of the Lord Jesus Christ, that is his death on the cross.

For He(God)made Him(Jesus)to be sin for us, who had no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.”
(2 Corinthians 5:21)

[HossB86]

She was "removed" from the curse of Adam at conception.

Care to provide scripture, chapter and verse, that states this?

Hoss

[HossB86]

The idea of an immaculate conception for Mary is not found in the Scriptures. period

Post #19. Luke 1:28.

Fail. That is eisegeted by Rome, not exegeted from scripture.

Try again. Hint: you won't find it in scripture.

Hoss

[LetMarch]

Point (and points) very well made! We all are in error when we get to teaching or preaching any thing apart from God’s message.

Like: “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)

“Let this mind be in you, was also in Christ Jesus: Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name:” (Philippians 2:5-9)

[count-your-change]

What ARE you talking about?

[count-your-change]

Thank you, I read all that but saw no need to post it.

[count-your-change]

The big words, “all, until” do seem to be difficult for some.

[the invisib1e hand]

What ARE you talking about?

Think that was covered in the reply.

You appear to be aspiring to your tagline. Godspeed.

[dangus]

LOL! Hey, everybody! Is your side losing an argument? No worries! Start your own THREAD and ignore all the posts which have exposed your argument for the worthless straw that it is!

[Salvation]

**Was Mary, Jesus’ mother and wife of Joseph, immaculately conceived, i.e., free of original sin from conception?**

Yes, oitherwise she could not have been the Ark of the New Ccovenant, holding the most holy Christ Child within her.

Think about it.

[dangus]

>> G5487 χαριτόω (kharitoō) >> - to grace, i.e. indue with special honor; >> Etymology: from G5485; >> KJV: make accepted, be highly favoured. << Yes, Xaritoo merely means, "grace." Except look in your own Greek: that's not the word used in the bible. The actual word adds the prefix "ke" and "mene." So Kexaritoomene means "filled with grace completely."

[count-your-change]

O.K., I've thought about it. What I've not been able to do is read about it in the Scriptures since no such idea is there.
Nowhere is Mary called an “ark” of anything, certainly not of the new covenant therein.
Having thought about it some more it's evident that some writers in an over abundance of hyperbole have gone far beyond what the historical Mary was and created an imaginary person to whom they can attribute the most extravagant qualities and types.

And I'm still thinking about it.

[Not gonna take it anymore]

“The reason Catholic’s insist on Mary’s Sinlessness, is that she is their Savior - not the Lord Jesus Christ!
The Ubi Primam of 1849 States “For, God has committed to Mary ... every hope, every grace, and all salvation.” This is on the Catholic Website: http://www.ewtn.com/library/encyc/p9ubipr2.htm

But know there is Salvation in no one else but the Lord Jesus Christ. Turn away from the worship of Mary and believing Salvation is in her. She would say to you “Do everything he (The Lord Jesus Christ) says. And the Lord Jesus Christ said “That you believe in He” (the Lord Jesus Christ) “whom He” (God the Father) “has Sent”.

Believe upon Christ Alone. Christ plus anything else is not Salvation.”

I can tell who the people are who do not have a clue what Catholics believe. I am a Catholic and I know that Jesus Christ is my savior. And Mary was his mother.

[Siena Dreaming]

The original wooden Ark was so holy that you would die if you touched it. Should the new Ark who carried God Himself be a creature under Satan's grip?

All of Mary's lineage was under Satan's grip. So was Mary.

Christ was born to redeem all mankind from Satan's grip...this includes Mary since she and her lineage were part of mankind.

For some reason Catholics choose to think that God could not have begotten the perfect Christ in an imperfect vessel. Not difficult...Christ also lived a perfect life in a corrupt world. Such things are easily overcome by God.

[RaceBannon]

So the Mary-God needed a Savior? You almost sound like a Mormon! LOL!