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To: PastorBooks

Any specifics?


3 posted on 03/19/2011 8:48:14 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
What is Wrong with Lordship Salvation?

Well for one, it is patently unscriptural. Salvation is by grace, not of works. Our salvation does not depend on us, it is the gift of God. Ephesians 2:8 spells it out loud and clear.

4 posted on 03/19/2011 8:53:10 AM PDT by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.....Eagle Scout since Sep 9, 1970)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I wish I had time for a good debate right now, but I don’t. I was kept up most of the all night and got very little sleep. I may try to get back to this in a day or two.

Let me sum up my thoughts in a too-short way. The Church has made a terrible mistake by “theologizing” salvation. We talk about it as salvation which is by grace alone (and Yes and Amen to that!) and then sanctification and later glorification — which is all true — but our problem is that we talk about “it.” An “it”, not a “Him.” Jesus Christ is life to all who trust in Him. He *is* salvation. His Name is Yeshua... remember what that word means?

Jesus doesn’t have some salvation in His pocket and when someone asks He reaches in and pulls out a handful. It’s HIM, it’s all about Him. It is about walking with Him, talking with Him, listening to Him, basking in His love and loving Him back.

The debate about “Lordship Salvation” completely misses the point. The discussion all revolves around “it” and you can get a Lordship preacher and a non-Lordship preacher in the same room and have a rousing argument... and never mention Jesus once.

The word “repent” in Greek is metanoia, “change the mind.” Most preachers have said that this means to change your mind about sin. But that is impossible for the unsaved. Only the Holy Spirit can convict of sin and bring someone in. It is much more a changing of the mind about *Jesus.* I didn’t know Him, didn’t care about Him, didn’t appreciate Him... and Jesus did WHAT for me??? Salvation is the Holy Spirit tackling someone with His love and saying “Here is Jesus! This is what He did for you! This is Who He is! This is how much He loves you!” and the reply, with trembling lips, is “Dear God... Yes!”

The Lordship guys want some level of pre-commitment to make sure they are REALLY SERIOUS. Impossible for the unregenerate.

The non-Lordship guys are just so eager for the lost person to pray “THE MAGIC PRAYER” that will say anything to get the person to repeat it. Regardless of the sins they are holding onto.

True story: I met a man from a church who was raving about a “new technique” some traveling evangelist had taught them. This “evangelist” — and I use that word lightly — had said the best way to get someone saved is to lead the person in “THE” prayer *whether the person meant it or not.* According to this evangelist/false teacher, the person would be magically converted even if they didn’t believe that Jesus was the Son of God when they started the prayer. No joke!

I would argue that BOTH the Lordship guys and the non-Lordship guys are completely wrong. One of them has the right train on the wrong track and the other has the wrong train on the right track and the whole thing is a trainwreck.

Grace is way, way, way bigger than this. Jesus is totally, radically, insanely, so much of grace that if you meet Him, I mean REALLY MEET HIM, and He falls on you... there is no going back. There is no earning. No levels of pre-commitment. No praying magic words and maybe something will stick. Salvation is JESUS falling on you in the person of the Holy Spirit, forgiving you and giving you Himself. It is a grace, love, relationship, mind-changing reality-shattering God-encounter.

True salvation — Jesus Himself — and the clinical arguments of Lordship vs. non-Lordship are as far apart as the brilliant flash the very moment God spoke light into existance... and a used physics textbook. The textbook can only dissect what the author thinks he knows, the reality of which is incomprehensible.


10 posted on 03/19/2011 10:10:32 AM PDT by PastorBooks
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