How Do You Obtain Salvation Through Belief in Christ?

Antinomianism and Salvation ^ | 2/22/2001 | Gart O'Toole

[Benchim]

And what is the condition for this absolute forgiveness?

And what must we do to reach "imputed righteousness"?

Very simple. John 3:16

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world,but that the world might be saved through him. 18

He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son Of GOD.

[CottShop]

[[You do know, don’t you, that those verses about Esau and Jacob are referring to them as nations and don’t have anything at all to do with the individual salvation of either of those two persons?]]

It is about individual salvation- each individual in those two nations was eaither loved of God or Hated- both Jacob and Esau were their nation’s representatives- God hated the one, loved the other, and so went the nations. God can not love sin- He can love the sinner, inthat He has provided a way out of sin for everyoen that will accept, but He KNEW beforehand who will and will not aaccept. Even if you take the position that ‘hate’ simply means ‘loved less’, then how does ‘God so loved the world’? Some He ‘loved more than others’? The more loved one shall inherit the kingdom of God, but hte less one won’t? Whether you think Hate means hate, or ‘less loved’ it still means the one shall inherit, while the other won’t, which was all known beforehand by omniscient God

“Does God hate the sin and love the sinner? I refer you first of all to Revelation 20:15, “And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” If God genuinely loves the sinner but hates the sin, why are sinners cast into the furnace of eternal torment?”

The nation of Jacob, will receive their inheratence, Jacob’s nation will not. both Jacob and Esau were born in sin, yet God, for His own reasons and divine purposes, chose to change the heart of one, while keeping unchanged, the heart of the other.

“But here is more on this verse.
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth ,)

Now read this for comparison:

Isaiah 45:4

For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me”

[[What a tangled web Calvin and those who followed him have weaved. The sovereign God has called all to repentance, not a select few.]]

Has He called All? Where in His word does it say this? The only place it says ‘all’ is ‘whosoever’ shall call upon Him- Does ‘world’ mean Everyone? or ‘All’?

“For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.”

It’s pretty clear from the above verse, that ‘world’ does not infact mean ‘all’ or ‘everyone’

[[God’s grace and love and mercy are poured out through Jesus Christ on all of humanity,]]

Really? I haven’t read that anywhere in God’s word- His word and grace, according to the bible, however, Is available to ALL who will call upon His name

you know, it’s fien that you and I might have dissagreements, but let’s not throw out barbs by insinuating that one congregation or another is ‘twisted’ in it’s thinking, and ‘deceitful’- when it comes to difficult passages and meanings, we MUST remember, that we are goign to see as though through a glass darkly- not everythign is going to be crystal clear- clear cut-

I’m not saying I’m 100% right, and I’m not saying you’re 100% right- there may be truth in both positions ultimately- the subject of Soveriegnty isw aq VERY difficult one, one hwich theologians have been wrestling with for many thousands of years- let’
s be civil enough to recognize the difficulty on both sides of the issue- state what we beleive, or htink, for the sake of discussion, and leave it at that

[CottShop]

[[I also believe that some try to define “works” and “fruit” too narrowly. That older lady that is not a door- knocker, and who may not be a Sunday School Teacher... but always has a kind word for the pastor, is a faithful prayer warrior, and shines her own Christian light to those who get to know her... she is bearing fruit as well - it may not be the “big glamorous” fruit that some seem to set their sights on... but it is none the less.]]

or even the janitor who ‘just has that somethign special about their character- somethign you can’t quite put into words’, may be used by the Holy spirit to inspire some child to seek out what it is that makes that janitor different, without hte janitor ever having done or said anything about Christ (doing so these days will get you arrested in School apparently). The Holy Spirit listeth where it will- We NEVER know where or when or how God will use us-

[[Even the lowly “jobs” within a church are important and demonstrate fruitful work when done with a glad heart to Glorify God.]]

Exactly- We tend to forget this, and think ourselves uselss i nthe servive of God- it’s just ‘natural’ to do so I guess- always looking to ‘improve’ ourselves- but even the blind staving child of God living in the street may so move a stobbornly Atheistic philanthropist as to Seek out the face of God just by seeing that it’s not the circumstances that dictate joy in the Lord, but our relationship to God that does so.

[CottShop]

Anotgher Verse

“For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.”

Does ‘all’ mean ‘all’? Can we at least agree that John 3:16 is a difficult passage when it comes to the Issue of God’s love for mankind? If we insist that God means ‘all people’ when He says ‘the world’ in J 3:16, then what about the verses I posted? Either God’s word can not be broken, or there must be another explanation to the assertion that ‘world, means ‘the whole world’.

and just for the Record, I have no idea what Calvanism teaches- I only know what I’ve studied over the years, and the difficulties I’ve had with some passages, and seekign answers- I don’t really care what organization has answers, as long as I feel they are scripturally sound thriough prayer and study- I hesitate to even claim a denomination as I’ve foudn unsoundness in most of the denominations I’ve studied, but I’ve also foudn soundeness in some of what some of hte denominations have said as well- if however, they preach as their central tenants stuff that is clearly contradictory to fairly easily understood portions of God’s word, expecially concidering Salvation, I steer clear- however, that doesn’t mean that some denominations who might be in error have nothign of value to add regarding theological issues-

I have a somewhat strong leaning regarding predestination, however, I will NOT bet the farm on it one way or the other, as I don’t beleive it’s really an essential issue- is it important? Sure, but is it critical to the salvation message of Christ? Nope- As we don’t know who God may have chosen IF infact God does choose, we STILL NEED to be witness of God’s love to everyone we meet one way or another- The way I figure it is this- IF God wanted us to know in no uncertain terms, one way or the other, then He would have spelled it out VERY clearly so that there would have been no ucnertainties- Since He didn’t- and since it’s not real clear, subjects like predestination are ineteresting, but not really essential to the central message of the Word- and I’ll not live or die accordign to whether predestination is gospel truth or not- but that doesn’t mean I won’t have an opinion on it

[circlecity]

“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:28-29"

Good verse - it clearly shows that belief in Jesus is the work of God not man.

[CynicalBear]

>>it clearly shows that belief in Jesus is the work of God not man.<<

Nope, that’s not what the verse means. If it meant that then Jesus would have been telling them that they could do the work of God.

[ruesrose]

What a wonderful gift this is! That our father in heaven loves us so much that He will not hold us to rigid laws and rules, which He knows we cannot follow perfectly, but bestows his grace on us through our acceptance of His son as our savior.
In return, we should want to give him the gifts of adoration and obedience. Some of this we can achieve through simple prayer..which He loves to hear us do.

I recently heard an instruction on how to pray that makes prayer so simple...that is to think ACTS-A-Adoration, C-Confession, T-Thankfulness-S-Suplication. Follow that order and pray out loud when you can. Prayers prayed out loud keep our minds from straying during prayer. But it is ok to pray in our minds too.

[circlecity]

"If it meant that then Jesus would have been telling them that they could do the work of God."

It means just the opposite, that they can't. They can't believe by themselves, that is the work of God.

[Natural Law]

"Believing that Christ is the Son of God is not enough."

I think we need to better define "believing in Him". I am sure that even Satan believes that Jesus is the Son of God and possesses the ability to forgive all sin, but Satan will not be saved.

[CynicalBear]

Look at the verse just preceding. 27 “Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.”

They had followed Jesus after He fed the 5000. Jesus claimed they were following for the food and had been “filled” with physical food and not the miracles. Jesus told them not to labour (work) for earthly satisfaction (food).

In the next verse they ask about what the work (labour) is that they should do other then working for earthly satisfaction (food). The answer is that they should believe “in Him (Jesus) whom He (the Father) hath sent”. In other words, believe on Him “and all these other things will be added”.

29 “Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

In context He could not have been talking about the Father’s work. He was talking about the focus the of the people should have. The work (labour) should be believing on Jesus.

[circlecity]

The verse (Jn 6:29) is the first of Jesus' words emphasizing the sovereignty of God in salvation which are contained in chapter 6 of John. It marks the transition of the chapter from the feeding of the crowds miracle to his “bread of life” sermon. He makes the point here and in v. 44, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him..” and v. 65, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father." and even verse 40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who behilds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." Belief in Christ is the work of God. God makes the first step and is sovereign over everything and everyone.

[Quix]

Thanks for the ping.

[CynicalBear]

Obviously we are not going to agree. As I said earlier that people asked about how they could do the “work of God” in that He made the loaves and fishes feed 5000. Jesus said that was not the work that they should focus on. The work that they should focus on was to believe and that all those things would come to them.

We can leave this to the fact that we do not agree on what it’s saying and leave it at that.

[RnMomof7]

Believing that Christ is the Son of God is not enough.

You are right , even the demons believe and tremble

An intellectual assent to who Christ is will never save.. We need to have God reveal His holiness to us.. and for Him to bring us to repentance with an understanding that I am a dirty rotten sinner in the eyes of God, no matter how much "good" I do, that I can never appease the wrath of God, or preform any God pleasing act will or approach His Holiness ... Then can we understand and believe that we need a Savior to propitiate our sin before God, and that Savior is Jesus Christ..who paid the sin debt for me...

[Zuriel]

**There is nothing else “stacked on top” of our salvation except**........

The Lord’s own command to “be born of the water (no comma) and of the Spirit, (or) he cannot enter into the kingdom of God”. John 3:5

Of course that command is not stacked at all; it’s omitted by those who prefer to start at 3:16, in which the Lord is telling all to believe on him through his words/commands.

People keep running to the ‘thief’ for an example of salvation, ignoring that moment was ‘before midnight’ of the rule of the Law. Now, you must have his Spirit ‘or you are none of his’.

[Zuriel]

**those seeking material gain in the name of God**

There is a whole LOT of that going on by people with the same ‘just believe’ (no physical action required; the Lord’s commands are optional)) message. It’s easy beliefism encouraged by men and women with charisma, but lacking the truth of God’s word.

[Benchim]

Christ earth and resurrection did away with things He said before tke cross. For Example read Matthew 5:20 and you will understand. “20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.”
Now,do you think that was the case after the atonement? It is all imputed righteousness. Not about anything but belief.

[HarleyD]

I just think there are people ‘called’ to be certain class of Christians- and I think we must fully accept whatever class we have been handed by God- and perhaps even learn to accept it happily at some point in time, and to stop trying to guilt oursdelves into being somethign we were never meant to be

Your comments shows great spiritual wisdom. It took me 30+ years to learn this truth. "Spiritual giants" are only giants because God has made them that way. We are to respect them that God is using them, but God loves them no more or less than anyone else. He simply has chose to use them.

There are biblical examples of this. For example when Elijah was lamenting he alone was left, God told him that He had 6,000 prophets hidden in a cave that He could call upon. Giddeon was a "mighty" man of God simply because God put into play how the Medianite army would fall.

On the flip side, we must not think too highly of ourselves. The rebellion of Korah was due to the Koranites believing they should have a greater position in the tabernacle. Aaron and Marian also believe they were just as important as Moses. All found out how wrong they were.

We are the way we are in our Christian life because this is the way God wants us to be. There is always room for us to improve, but that is God's Holy Spirit job which he works out in each of our lives, working specifically with each one of us. But God loves and uses each of us according to the measure that He has bestowed on us. Phrased another way, every Christian is equally as important in God's eye in carrying out His will, because all things comes from the Father.

[HarleyD]

God gave us the 10 Commandments, not as a way of earning salvation, but as a way to measure our lives against His standard, that we might be able to see how short we fall in trying to “live up”. That we might see how much we need The Savior. We should obey because of our love for Him.

I would agree with most of your statement. I would suggest however that the commandments and law was given to us for our benefit-to help us have the most perfect life. We shouldn't obey the law because of our love for God. Rather we should obey the law because it is good for us. Because we fail to keep the law on our own, God has given us His Son to help us.

[mitch5501]

“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:28-29"

"Good verse - it clearly shows that belief in Jesus is the work of God not man."

I respectfully disagree.

It is the work that we are set to do.To have the truths of God 'sink in'.God knows how we are wired (obviously!)and knows that we can have an intellectual knowledge of something and a heart knowledge of that same thing.How many times have we all heard someone say "I know but it hasn't sunk in yet"? When something sinks in is when we begin to act more appropriately to what we know.Things 'sink in' when we mull them over in our minds,when we start to think about the ramifications,the consequences,when we (in spite of how we feel) purposely bring them again and again to the front of our thinking.

Hebrews 4:11 - Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Philippians 2:12 - Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 3:14 - I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

The hoped for result?

Ephesians 3:16-19 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Belief of the heart (that which has sunken in) is what saves and is what we are told to work towards.Paul said he counted himself as having not attained but instead pressed toward...intellectual belief must proceed (with much labour,dilligence etc) toward heart belief so that we will not be ashamed at His appearing.

There really is no such thing as 'easy believism'.

Mark 5:36 - As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.

[mitch5501]

sorry circlecity meant to ping you to above.