Israel: The Super Sign of the End-Times (Part 3) (Open)

In others words, when God begins to bring the Jews back into their land He gave them, Christ will return! The phrase “will return” is omitted from most modern translations of the Bible since the Masoretic text (upon which the majority of modern translations of the Old Testament are based upon) and the Septuagint (Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament) do not include it. But the Dead Sea Scrolls copied some 150 years before the birth of Christ and over 1,000 years older than any previously discovered manuscript of the Bible includes this very phrase! The passage reads as follows:

lol ... I think you realize full well that is a loaded question. You and I have two totally different ideas concerning what the restoration of Israel means.

It wasn't loaded at all. What OT prophecies point to the restoration that Christ accomplished at His first coming? Doesn't the fact that you would stumble say something about your theology?

So the answer to your question is ... technically, no prophecy concerning the first coming of Christ relates to a restoration of Israel ... since no restoration took place.

Of course it did. You just refuse to see it because you see the prophecies in (unbiblical) nationalistic terms. For example, Paul tells the (former) gentile believers that they have been brought into the commonwealth of Israel in Ephesians 2. How could this happen or make any sense without the restoration of Israel being a reality?

And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." (Matt. 1:21)
'But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, Are not the least among the rulers of Judah; For out of you shall come a Ruler Who will shepherd My people Israel.' " (Matt. 2:6)

But I'm glad to see you got the point. While the NT deals extensively with the restoration of Israel, it is silent on the restoration of “national Israel” as perceived by modern futurists. Restoration has happened. Jesus is the King of Israel seated on the throne of David in heaven.

The first coming was all about salvation, for Israel and the nations. The second coming will be all judgment. There is no second chance for Israel or anyone else. Once Christ returns that is “the end” when He delivers up the kingdom to the Father.

I know you said you have been busy, but I think I never got a response to these questions

A couple questions/issues from our previous exchange that I don't think got answered:
One more thing— and I realize I ask a lot of questions but I asked this before — is the [millennial kingdom] throne of David the actual very same throne that David and Solomon, et al sat on 2500 or so years ago? If so, where is it today?
You wrote: I should have been more clear ... the "taken away into judgment" that is mentioned in Matt 24 is merely death. At the second coming Christ kills all unbelievers. Their final judgment awaits the GWT judgment after the MK. Sorry about that. And I asked:
So what coming and judgment is being pictured in Matt. 25:31ff?
31 " When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
It says “when He comes … then He will judge.”

Thanks.

Quickly ...

You mean the physical piece of wood/stone/whatever that they sat on? Don't know where it is today, and not sure what your point is ... Are you claiming that futurism requires that Christ sit on the same block of wood that David sat on?

The judgment in Matt you refer to is at the of the tribulation, His second coming, after the battle of Armegeddon. There are believers on the earth, there are unbelievers on the earth, the unbelievers are taken away in judgment.

I would think by now you are well aware of the dispensational understanding of Matt 24 +

Futurists make much of the notion that Jesus is not currently seated on “the throne of David” because David’s throne is on earth, which I take to mean that “the throne of David” is the actual throne that David himself sat on. Otherwise, if it’s not the actual throne that David himself sat on then it is just a symbol, a representation, a type, if you will. And if it is just a symbol/type, then the throne could very well be in heaven ala Acts 2:30ff where Peter tells us that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit is the very evidence Jesus is seated on the throne of David.

I would think by now you are well aware of the dispensational understanding of Matt 24 +

I’m well acquainted with the dispensational view(s) of Matt. 24 (they are legion), I was more interested in your prior claim from a long time ago, i.e.:

I should have been more clear ... the "taken away into judgment" that is mentioned in Matt 24 is merely death. At the second coming Christ kills all unbelievers. Their final judgment awaits the GWT judgment after the MK. Sorry about that.

You seem to be claiming that there is no judgment of unbelievers at the second coming. That it awaits the judgment after the MK. And so I asked what Matthew 25:31ff was all about, where His coming and judgment are linked. In fact, the judgment in this passage involves both the righteous and the unrighteous, rewards and punishment, given together.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: (Matt. 25)

This is clearly final judgment language. And not only that, it is indicating a general judgment, believers and unbelievers, not one of the many, segregated judgments of futurist dispensationalism. Your answer here seems to be contradicting your earlier claim. Is this just a case of the facts as you see them not fitting the text?

BTW, it says here that He will “sit on the throne of His glory.” Which throne is that, dispensationally speaking?

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