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Jerusalem, the Have-not Whore
American Vision ^ | Feb. 4, 2011 | Joel McDurmon

Posted on 02/04/2011 11:29:26 AM PST by RJR_fan

Bottom Line (last few paragraphs):



TOPICS: History; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: antisemitism; apostasy; bezotted; bs; ibtz; inheritance; israel; jewhatingmorons; replacementtheology; rot; tribulation
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To: paladin1_dcs
What am I missing here?

They are called metaphors. Divine accommodation to human understanding. Our marriage to God is in a spiritual sense. And thus it is portrayed that way in the Bible using human experiences. How they map to future reality is unstated. I’m sure we will be surprised. I’m confident in the truth that God has but one wife/bride, and we are it, Jews and gentiles together, all the redeemed from all of human history.

181 posted on 02/09/2011 10:47:57 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: paladin1_dcs
but a physical Kingdom will not be established until Christ returns and sets His throne in Jerusalem.

This notion, like many of the other flawed ideas of dispensationalism, is not taught in the Bible.

The Bible teaches that the next event on our eschatological horizon is the second coming, the “day of the Lord,” and then is the new heavens and new earth. There is no possible of an intervening “millennial/physical kingdom” in Jerusalem or any place else.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. (2 Peter 3)
There is no room in this passage, or any other passage, for any pre-eternity physical kingdom after Christ’s return. The “day of the Lord” is a day of judgment and ushering in of eternity. Such was the expectation of the apostolic church.
182 posted on 02/09/2011 10:55:06 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: paladin1_dcs
Clear as mud yet? ;)

And beholding that the one in error yet spoke kindly and clearly, the acolyte of the ArmEnian Calvinist said, "Thou art not far from the Kingdom."

183 posted on 02/09/2011 11:12:51 AM PST by RJR_fan (The press corpse is going through the final stages of Hopium withdrawal. That leg tingle is urine.)
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To: topcat54
He doesn’t need anything. He’s God after all. But He does ordain means, including human means, to accomplish His perfect, holy, and sovereign will.

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, " All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. (Matt. 28)

We are given marching orders, “Go therefore,” precisely because Jesus has been given “all authority.” We can expect to see gospel success in this age.

Christ reigns over the nations, and we are His vice-regents, instructing the nations to do His perfect will.

AMEN! I honestly never realized Christians believed anything else until I came to Free Republic.

Maybe Christian churches should be singing "Onward Christian Soldiers" more often.

184 posted on 02/09/2011 11:33:03 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: topcat54; paladin1_dcs; 1000 silverlings
When folks refer to the “Scofield Bible,” they are usually referring to the Notes written by “Dr.” Scofield that were eventually added to the text of the KJV Bible. Scofield did not create a new translation of the Bible itself.

The "New Scofield Bible", from the 1960s, modernized the KJV language somewhat. I'm not seeing that one at Amazon now, but I am seeing a "Scofield Bible III", using the NKJV, as well as the NIV. That's just the first page of hits. And there's still the "Old Scofield Bible" preserving the classic golden age dispensationalism.

185 posted on 02/09/2011 11:37:29 AM PST by Lee N. Field (Bad eschatology has consequences.)
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To: topcat54
"All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."

In fact, that single statement alone by Christ to His flock tells us everything we really need to know about this life we're living.

Christ is King NOW "in heaven and on earth."

That means He rules. Not Satan. Not sin. Christ alone.

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." -- Col. 1:16-17

"All things" serve the perfect, sovereign will of God, whether they understand that fact or not.

186 posted on 02/09/2011 11:38:11 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: topcat54

Then how do you explain the contents of Revelation 20? It specifically deals with the first resurrection of the dead, the 1,000 year reign of Christ and the Great White Throne Judgment. It specifically mentions that Satan will be loosed upon the Earth to tempt the nations into rebellion against God once again. It specifically states that the Beast and the False Prophet are already in the Lake of Fire when God casts Satan into it.

How do you explain this passage, if there is no 1,000 year reign of Christ?

Rev 20:7-10 KJV - “[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. [9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. [10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”


187 posted on 02/09/2011 11:48:12 AM PST by paladin1_dcs
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To: Netizen

Shalom!

I meant to stir an intellegent discussion on the matter and I appreciate your contribution.

It has been said before that, “Iron sharpens iron...” I hope and pray that we are mutually edified through this discussion.

Please refer to the following rebuttals to your answers...

Isaiah 52:3 - First problem. The JPS renders the verse in the past tense. The KJV uses future and present tense.

True, the JPS renders the verse in the past tense and the KJV uses future and present tense. However, the book of Isaiah was written between 701 and 681 B.C., 6 to 7 centuries before Christ. Some could then argue that it could not refer to Jews after 600 B.C. and it that case could not support either view, nor anything that took place with Israel after that date.

Isaiah 52:3 - Again, same argument as verse 2 regarding past & present tense. Zechariah 8:23 is a wonderful passage though and can also be applied to Yehoshua, who was Jewish or even the 12 Apostles who were all Jewish.

Isaiah 52:4 - This verse could also beautifully applied to Yehoshua’s suffering on the cross.Psa. 22:14,15...Suffered agony on Calvary...Mk. 15:34-37; Psa. 22:15........He thirsted........Jn. 19:28; Psa. 22:16...They pierced His hands and His feet....Jn. 19:34,37;20:27; Psa. 22:17,18...Stripped Him before the stares of men...Lu. 23:34,35; Psa. 22:18.....They parted His garments.....Jn. 19:23,24

Isaiah 52:5 - As far as nations blaming Israel for its problems, well the same argument could be used regarding past or present tense excluding it referring to Jews after 600 B.C. when the text was written.

Isaiah 52:6 - Iniquity conclusively refers to sin in the Old Testament. This word is the same one used in Leviticus for the scapegoat on the Day of Atonement.

Isaiah 52:7 - This refers to Yehoshua opening his mouth to defend himself against the accusations. You need to read Yehoshuas trial before Pontius Pilate, since the New Testament clearly says Yehoshua did NOT defend himself before his accusers, “Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?
And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly.” Matthew 27:13-14; Also, regarding Yehoshua crying to the Father, Psalm 22:1 foretold of this.

Isaiah 53:8 - This can also be applied to Jesus, since he was also sentenced to death by crucifixion.

Isaiah 53:9 - This passage refers to the fact that Jesus died between two criminals and also the historical fact that Joseph of Arimethea, a Pharisee and member of the Sanhedrin, a wealthy man, donated his own tomb for Jesus’ burial.

Isaiah 53:10 - Through faith in Yehoshua ha’Mashiach, Jew or Gentile can be adopted into G-d’s family. Yehoshua would see “lineage” in those throughout the ages that put their trust in Him. In Old Testament, the Jews look forward to coming Mashiach and were justified through the ritual animal sacrifices point to Yehoshua ha’Mashiach, the Lamb of God, and after the Cross, we look back to that fulfillment.

Isaiah 53:11 - Yehoshua left the commission to proclaim the Good News of the Gospel to the four corners of the world to His Disciples, who were Jewish and these 12 Disciples represented the 12 Tribes of Israel.

Isaiah 53:12 - Jesus prayed for His captors and executioners – Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. - Luke 23:34

Shalom b’Shem Yah-shua haMashiach

Baruch Hashem Adonai

May the Hashem Bless you and Keep You.


188 posted on 02/09/2011 12:25:04 PM PST by hope_dies_last
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To: paladin1_dcs

Great way to explain this!


189 posted on 02/09/2011 12:42:04 PM PST by cinciella
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To: paladin1_dcs
Then how do you explain the contents of Revelation 20? It specifically deals with the first resurrection of the dead, the 1,000 year reign of Christ and the Great White Throne Judgment. It specifically mentions that Satan will be loosed upon the Earth to tempt the nations into rebellion against God once again. It specifically states that the Beast and the False Prophet are already in the Lake of Fire when God casts Satan into it.

The way I deal with it is to point out the things it says and the things it doesn’t say. For example, it doesn’t say anything in there about a) the Second Coming being prior to the “thousand years”, or b) Jesus reigning on the earth during the “thousand years.” You can search high and low and you won’t find either teaching.

It says that the purpose of the “binding of Satan” is “so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.” It says nothing about Satan being totally powerless during the thousand years. The binding has but one purpose. You might compare this binding with the binding of the strongman and the coming of the kingdom that Jesus teaches about in Matthew 12.

Rev. 20 says, “Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.” The first resurrection is Christ’s resurrection from the dead. All believers have a part in His resurrection, both spiritually and eventually physically.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, (Eph. 2)
This is resurrection language. Spiritual resurrection. All those who have a part in the first resurrection – Christ’s – experience spiritual resurrection from the dead.

There is nothing in Rev. 20 that is inconsistent with the teaching that at the Second Coming comes “the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.” (1 Cor. 15:24)

People presume too much when they read image-filled passages like Rev. 20.

190 posted on 02/09/2011 12:51:55 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: topcat54
Actually, it does state that Satan would be powerless during his binding during the thousand year reign. Rev 20:1-3 KJV - "[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. [2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, [3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season." I'd say that is pretty strong language indicating that Satan is bound for literally a thousand years. Combined with the following passage, I'd say that it presents a pretty solid picture of Christ reigning both on Earth as well as in Heaven for a literal thousand years. Rev 20:4-8 KJV - "[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. [6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. [7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth , Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea." Now is this the same thing as what is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18? The day of the Lord and the End of Days are two seperate, different events. Otherwise, how would Christ return with His followers to destroy the Anti-Christ as shown in Revelation 19? Rev 19:11-21 KJV - "[11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. [12] His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. [13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. [14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. [15] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. [16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. [17] And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; [18] That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. [19] And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. [20] And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. [21] And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh." There's more here than just "Christ returned, everyone's judged, end of time" and the thousand year literal reign is actually a solid part of that future.
191 posted on 02/09/2011 1:30:44 PM PST by paladin1_dcs
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To: paladin1_dcs
And I really, really wish I could figure out the formatting on this site. It's terribly aggravating to put together a post only to have a mess like my last one show up.
192 posted on 02/09/2011 1:32:37 PM PST by paladin1_dcs
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To: hope_dies_last
I'm answering in sections so to try and keep the responses from being so long.

YHWH is an unapproachable light.

YHWH is NOT unapproachable.  We are supposed to call upon Him, pray to Him.  Our line of communication is open at all times.  It isn't like there is an on or off switch.  Id you mean can I touch Him right now?  Nope.  Can't reach and touch Yehoshua either.  Yehoshua tells people to pray to YHWH/Our Father, Yehoshua did NOT tell us to pray to Yehoshua.  Why would Yehoshua tell people to pray to YHWH/Our Father if YHWH wasn't approachable through prayer?

Jeremiah 29
12 And ye shall call upon Me, and go, and pray unto Me, and I will hearken unto you.
13 And ye shall seek Me, and find Me, when ye shall search for Me with all your heart.

2Ch 7:14
14 if My people, upon whom My name is called, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their evil ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.


193 posted on 02/09/2011 2:01:40 PM PST by Netizen
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To: hope_dies_last; blasater1960
Jesus is the embodiment of YHWH's Word, made manifest to the world in action, because YHWH's Word is verb and ACTION. As believer's we are called to the light and to walk in it as living sacrifices to the One and Only Holy One of Israel, the Ancient of Days, the Eternal One and to be proclaimers of the Everlasting Gospel, keeper's of the Covenant, defenders of the Faith and doers of the Law, allowing YHWH to inscribe His Holy Covenant in our Heart's. Grace, contrary to popular belief, does not nullify the Law of YHWH.


Yes and Grace existed in the Tanach, it isn't something reserved for the NT.

Genesis 6
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of YHWH.

Noah was given grace, that's why he was saved from the flood.

Jeremiah 31:2 Thus saith YHWH: the people that were left of the sword have found grace in the wilderness, even Israel, when I go to cause him to rest.

God promises the descendants of Israel who, through captivity, exile, and intermarriage with Gentiles became assimilated and inculturated Gentiles today that they will find "grace in the wilderness".

The exile mentioned in Isaiah

From the JPS (1917) Jewish Bible Tanakh
8 In full measure, when Thou sendest her away, Thou dost contend with her; He hath removed her with His rough blast in the day of the east wind.
9 Therefore by this shall the iniquity of Jacob be expiated, and this is all the fruit of taking away his sin: when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in pieces, so that the Asherim and the sun-images shall rise no more. Their exile was their atonement. No blood was shed for atonement.  

Yehoshua was sent as a prophet/messenger.  He tells us that he is 'son of man'.  He was sent to preach repentance and he did that.  

Matthew 3
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 3:
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew 11:20
Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Mark 6
11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.

He tells us he is a prophet.

Mat 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. It is possible that Yehoshua was prophesied in Deuteronomy 18, but, there were other prophets after Moses, so it really is hard to say.

Deuteronomy 18
15 A prophet will YHWH thy God raise up unto thee, from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16 according to all that thou didst desire of YHWH thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying: 'Let me not hear again the voice of YHWH my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.'
17 And YHWH said unto me: 'They have well said that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it of him.
20 But the prophet, that shall speak a word presumptuously in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.'

Unfortunately, a lot of people later took some of the words that Yehoshua spoke and gave him the credit instead of YHWH.

194 posted on 02/09/2011 2:04:19 PM PST by Netizen
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To: paladin1_dcs

well, I see that you’ve figured out how to bold-face text. Just replace the b with a p (for paragraph) between the capital , and capital . and you will have a “paragraph” tag. You only need one, at the end of each paragraph.


195 posted on 02/09/2011 2:04:34 PM PST by RJR_fan (The press corpse is going through the final stages of Hopium withdrawal. That leg tingle is urine.)
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To: hope_dies_last
I would like your opinion on the topic of the Seventh Day Sabbath and the perpetuity of YHWH's Law.

The sabbath was created for all mankind. There were no Jews/Israelites in Genesis, at that time all mankind were gentiles.

Genesis 2
1 And the heaven and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God finished His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it; because that in it He rested from all His work which God in creating had made.

In the above verses we have God blessing and sanctifying the seventh day. Making the seventh day holy.

Exodus 20
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath unto YHWH thy God, in it thou shalt not do any manner of work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates;

In the two verses above we see once again, that the seventh day is holy, and we now see that this day is called 'the sabbath'. The seventh day of the week is the sabbath. Over time the numbers given to the days of the week, were replaced by names. Saturday was the name given to the seventh day.

The weekly sabbath day is a foretaste of the "rest" of the millennial kingdom. The Bible is replete with instructions pointing out how to keep the sabbath, the meaning of the sabbath, the blessings of keeping the sabbath, and why the seventh day of the week is important to mankind. Keeping the sabbath allows you to practice, and prepare yourself for the millenial kingdom.

Sabbath Will Be Kept in the Millennium

Isaiah 66
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before Me, saith YHWH, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, saith YHWH.

In the verse above we can see that ALL flesh are to worship before YHWH, on the sabbath.

Revelation 14
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Remember that the faith of Yehoshua is Judaic, though it didn't have a name at the time that Yehoshua practiced it.

Revelation 22
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Keeping the sabbath is the 4th commandment, aand part of the Mosaic Covenenat which we are told is Eternal/Everlasting.  At no point has YHWH  changed the 4th commandment.  YHWH sanctified the Sabbath, Saturday. The Sabbath is YHWH's day. That is from YHWH, and not man-made like SUNday worship, via the 'edict' of Constanintine, in veneration of the Sun.

Constantine placed no Christian appellation upon the worship on the first day of the week,  referring to it as the "venerable day of the sun."
 

Let all judges and all city people and all tradesmen rest upon the venerable day of the sun. But let those dwelling in the country freely and with full liberty attend to the culture of their field; since it frequently happens that no other day is so fit for the sowing of grain or the planting of vines; hence, the favorable time should not be allowed to pass, lest the provisions of heaven be lost.  Quoted in Blakely, p. 269


Or if you prefer the Codex Justinianus:
 

On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time [A.D. 321].)  Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p. 380, note 1.


Mark 2
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

The Sabbath is YHWH's Day."


196 posted on 02/09/2011 2:05:41 PM PST by Netizen
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To: hope_dies_last
I consider myself as a spiritual Jew, not according to the flesh, but according to the spirit. For YHWH is spirit and those who worship Him, must do so in spirit and in truth... But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth. John 4:23-24



John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Notice that he said IS not WAS.

Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

197 posted on 02/09/2011 2:07:26 PM PST by Netizen
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To: Netizen
YHWH is an unapproachable light.

I was referring that no living man can come into YHWH's presence and live, and even more so, Moshe only partially witnessed YHWH's Glory from the cleft in the rock... not even the Priests in the Sanctuary were able to minister when YHWH Glory filled the tabernacle. Although there is an instance when the people witnessed YHWH's glory in the passage from Deuteronomy below.

In the NT we read, referring to YHWH: "who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen. I Timothy 6:16

And in the Old Testament:
Exd 40:34 NIV - Then the cloud covered the Tent of Meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
Exd 40:35 NIV - Moses could not enter the Tent of Meeting because the cloud had settled upon it, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
Deu 5:24 NIV - And you said, "The LORD our God has shown us his glory and his majesty, and we have heard his voice from the fire. Today we have seen that a man can live even if God speaks with him.

We are undoubtedly permitted to approach YHWH through prayer, and come before His presence, but not face to face.

198 posted on 02/09/2011 2:24:18 PM PST by hope_dies_last
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To: Netizen
Unfortunately, a lot of people later took some of the words that Yehoshua spoke and gave him the credit instead of YHWH.

That is unfortunate, since Yehoshua gave all the credit to the Father:

Jhn 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Jhn 3:17 - For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Jhn 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Jhn 3:19 - This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Jhn 3:20 - Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

Jhn 3:21 - But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

Jhn 5:36 - "I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me.

Jhn 5:43 - I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

Jhn 5:45 - "But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.

Jhn 6:32 - Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. Jhn 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Jhn 8:16 - But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.

Jhn 12:49 - For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.

Jhn 12:50 - I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."


199 posted on 02/09/2011 2:37:57 PM PST by hope_dies_last
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To: hope_dies_last
One other point I forgot to mention is the meaning of the name, Jesus.

'Jesus' originates from a defective pronunciation of the original Greek word, Iesous, which was a transliteration - NOT a translation.

The most profound fact, however, is that Christian leaders know this yet continue to intentionally misrepresent truth. They knowingly promote a false name for their messiah.

Acts 7 (KJV)
45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

Hebrews 4 (KJV)
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

Acts 7 (NASB)
45 "And having received it in their turn, our fathers (1) brought it in with Joshua upon dispossessing the nations whom God drove out before our fathers, until the time of David.

Hebrews 4 (NASB)
8 For (1) if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.

In BOTH of these verses the person being referred to is Joshua - the servant of Moses that lead Israel into the promised land. The reason the KJV says 'Jesus' is because it comes from the exact same Greek word, Iesous, and the King James Version translators apparently did not catch the error.

These verses help to further understand the difference between translation and transliteration. 'Joshua' is NOT a transliteration, but it does come from the Greek word Iesous, which IS a transliteration. 'Joshua' is a correct translation from the original Hebrew and is the actual "english translation" of their messiah's name. The translators CORRECTLY rendered 'Joshua' because they knew it to be the TRUE translation of the original Hebrew name for the servant of Moses. In short, they ignored the Greek transliteration, Iesous, because they knew it to be faulty.

If the translators of Scripture elsewhere, especially in the O(riginal) Testament and also in most modern versions of the New Testament, CORRECTLY render the SAME Greek word, Iesous, as 'Joshua' in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8, why do they refuse to correct the false rendering of 'Jesus' for the name of their messiah? IT IS THE SAME GREEK WORD! The English equivalent of their messiah's name is 'Joshua' (Yeshua, Yahshua, Yehosua), NOT 'Jesus'.

Why is their messiah's name correctly translated ONLY in the cases where it doesn't apply to him? Why does Christianity willfully refuse to correctly render their messiah's Hebrew name even when they correctly render the exact same Greek word in cases where he is not the one being referenced?

This shows that even translators know 'Jesus' is NOT correct.

There was no J common in the English language until around the 16th century. Prior to that time, those words now shown with a J were pronounced as though the J was a Y. So 'Joshua', even in English, is proven conclusively to be (Yeshua, Yahshua, or Yehoshua) when the original Y sound is used. Thus, it is IMPOSSIBLE for 'Jesus' to be anything close to the true name, because the 'J' sound did not exist when he was alive!

The name that is above all human names on Earth and above all the names of the heavenly host in Heaven, save the name of YHWH, is Yehoshuah or Yeshua, which literally means, “YHWH Saves” or, Yehovah Saves.

"YHWH SAVES" Yep, just doesn't make Yehoshua a g-d.

Yehoshua is NOT YHWH.
Paul tells us that Yehoshua was a man.

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.
Yehoshua makes no distinction between himself and others. We are explicitly told that he is a man, and a prophet.  Jesus never explicitly says that he is Our Father/YHWH.  Why do people accept vague verses over explicit statements?  

Matthew 26
39  And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

There are clearly two different wills here.  Yehoshua and YHWH are NOT one in the same!

200 posted on 02/09/2011 2:57:19 PM PST by Netizen
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