Posted on 02/04/2011 11:29:26 AM PST by RJR_fan
Bottom Line (last few paragraphs):
Based on the continuity of themeswealth, kingdom, inheritanceJesus teaching to the disciples should be considered of one piece with the parable of the rich fool. The section of Scripture, Luke 12:1334, should be taken as a whole. And the immediate message was the disinheritance of Israel, and the transfer of the Kingdom to the New Testament church. This blessing, we are told, is the Fathers good pleasure (12:32).
They are called metaphors. Divine accommodation to human understanding. Our marriage to God is in a spiritual sense. And thus it is portrayed that way in the Bible using human experiences. How they map to future reality is unstated. Im sure we will be surprised. Im confident in the truth that God has but one wife/bride, and we are it, Jews and gentiles together, all the redeemed from all of human history.
This notion, like many of the other flawed ideas of dispensationalism, is not taught in the Bible.
The Bible teaches that the next event on our eschatological horizon is the second coming, the day of the Lord, and then is the new heavens and new earth. There is no possible of an intervening millennial/physical kingdom in Jerusalem or any place else.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.There is no room in this passage, or any other passage, for any pre-eternity physical kingdom after Christs return. The day of the Lord is a day of judgment and ushering in of eternity. Such was the expectation of the apostolic church.
11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. (2 Peter 3)
And beholding that the one in error yet spoke kindly and clearly, the acolyte of the ArmEnian Calvinist said, "Thou art not far from the Kingdom."
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, " All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. (Matt. 28)
We are given marching orders, Go therefore, precisely because Jesus has been given all authority. We can expect to see gospel success in this age.
Christ reigns over the nations, and we are His vice-regents, instructing the nations to do His perfect will.
AMEN! I honestly never realized Christians believed anything else until I came to Free Republic.
Maybe Christian churches should be singing "Onward Christian Soldiers" more often.
When folks refer to the Scofield Bible, they are usually referring to the Notes written by Dr. Scofield that were eventually added to the text of the KJV Bible. Scofield did not create a new translation of the Bible itself.
The "New Scofield Bible", from the 1960s, modernized the KJV language somewhat. I'm not seeing that one at Amazon now, but I am seeing a "Scofield Bible III", using the NKJV, as well as the NIV. That's just the first page of hits. And there's still the "Old Scofield Bible" preserving the classic golden age dispensationalism.
In fact, that single statement alone by Christ to His flock tells us everything we really need to know about this life we're living.
Christ is King NOW "in heaven and on earth."
That means He rules. Not Satan. Not sin. Christ alone.
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." -- Col. 1:16-17 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
"All things" serve the perfect, sovereign will of God, whether they understand that fact or not.
Then how do you explain the contents of Revelation 20? It specifically deals with the first resurrection of the dead, the 1,000 year reign of Christ and the Great White Throne Judgment. It specifically mentions that Satan will be loosed upon the Earth to tempt the nations into rebellion against God once again. It specifically states that the Beast and the False Prophet are already in the Lake of Fire when God casts Satan into it.
How do you explain this passage, if there is no 1,000 year reign of Christ?
Rev 20:7-10 KJV - “[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. [9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. [10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
Shalom!
I meant to stir an intellegent discussion on the matter and I appreciate your contribution.
It has been said before that, “Iron sharpens iron...” I hope and pray that we are mutually edified through this discussion.
Please refer to the following rebuttals to your answers...
Isaiah 52:3 - First problem. The JPS renders the verse in the past tense. The KJV uses future and present tense.
True, the JPS renders the verse in the past tense and the KJV uses future and present tense. However, the book of Isaiah was written between 701 and 681 B.C., 6 to 7 centuries before Christ. Some could then argue that it could not refer to Jews after 600 B.C. and it that case could not support either view, nor anything that took place with Israel after that date.
Isaiah 52:3 - Again, same argument as verse 2 regarding past & present tense. Zechariah 8:23 is a wonderful passage though and can also be applied to Yehoshua, who was Jewish or even the 12 Apostles who were all Jewish.
Isaiah 52:4 - This verse could also beautifully applied to Yehoshua’s suffering on the cross.Psa. 22:14,15...Suffered agony on Calvary...Mk. 15:34-37; Psa. 22:15........He thirsted........Jn. 19:28; Psa. 22:16...They pierced His hands and His feet....Jn. 19:34,37;20:27; Psa. 22:17,18...Stripped Him before the stares of men...Lu. 23:34,35; Psa. 22:18.....They parted His garments.....Jn. 19:23,24
Isaiah 52:5 - As far as nations blaming Israel for its problems, well the same argument could be used regarding past or present tense excluding it referring to Jews after 600 B.C. when the text was written.
Isaiah 52:6 - Iniquity conclusively refers to sin in the Old Testament. This word is the same one used in Leviticus for the scapegoat on the Day of Atonement.
Isaiah 52:7 - This refers to Yehoshua opening his mouth to defend himself against the accusations. You need to read Yehoshuas trial before Pontius Pilate, since the New Testament clearly says Yehoshua did NOT defend himself before his accusers, Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?
And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly. Matthew 27:13-14; Also, regarding Yehoshua crying to the Father, Psalm 22:1 foretold of this.
Isaiah 53:8 - This can also be applied to Jesus, since he was also sentenced to death by crucifixion.
Isaiah 53:9 - This passage refers to the fact that Jesus died between two criminals and also the historical fact that Joseph of Arimethea, a Pharisee and member of the Sanhedrin, a wealthy man, donated his own tomb for Jesus burial.
Isaiah 53:10 - Through faith in Yehoshua haMashiach, Jew or Gentile can be adopted into G-ds family. Yehoshua would see lineage in those throughout the ages that put their trust in Him. In Old Testament, the Jews look forward to coming Mashiach and were justified through the ritual animal sacrifices point to Yehoshua haMashiach, the Lamb of God, and after the Cross, we look back to that fulfillment.
Isaiah 53:11 - Yehoshua left the commission to proclaim the Good News of the Gospel to the four corners of the world to His Disciples, who were Jewish and these 12 Disciples represented the 12 Tribes of Israel.
Isaiah 53:12 - Jesus prayed for His captors and executioners Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. - Luke 23:34
Shalom b’Shem Yah-shua haMashiach
Baruch Hashem Adonai
May the Hashem Bless you and Keep You.
Great way to explain this!
The way I deal with it is to point out the things it says and the things it doesnt say. For example, it doesnt say anything in there about a) the Second Coming being prior to the thousand years, or b) Jesus reigning on the earth during the thousand years. You can search high and low and you wont find either teaching.
It says that the purpose of the binding of Satan is so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. It says nothing about Satan being totally powerless during the thousand years. The binding has but one purpose. You might compare this binding with the binding of the strongman and the coming of the kingdom that Jesus teaches about in Matthew 12.
Rev. 20 says, Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The first resurrection is Christs resurrection from the dead. All believers have a part in His resurrection, both spiritually and eventually physically.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,This is resurrection language. Spiritual resurrection. All those who have a part in the first resurrection Christs experience spiritual resurrection from the dead.
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, (Eph. 2)
There is nothing in Rev. 20 that is inconsistent with the teaching that at the Second Coming comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. (1 Cor. 15:24)
People presume too much when they read image-filled passages like Rev. 20.
YHWH is an unapproachable light.
YHWH is NOT unapproachable. We are supposed to call upon Him, pray to Him. Our line of communication is open at all times. It isn't like there is an on or off switch. Id you mean can I touch Him right now? Nope. Can't reach and touch Yehoshua either. Yehoshua tells people to pray to YHWH/Our Father, Yehoshua did NOT tell us to pray to Yehoshua. Why would Yehoshua tell people to pray to YHWH/Our Father if YHWH wasn't approachable through prayer?
Jeremiah 29
12 And ye shall call upon Me, and go, and pray unto Me, and I will hearken unto you.
13 And ye shall seek Me, and find Me, when ye shall search for Me with all your heart.
2Ch 7:14
14 if My people, upon whom My name is called, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their evil ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Jeremiah 31:2 Thus saith YHWH: the people that were left of the sword have found grace in the wilderness, even Israel, when I go to cause him to rest.
God promises the descendants of Israel who, through captivity, exile, and intermarriage with Gentiles became assimilated and inculturated Gentiles today that they will find "grace in the wilderness".
The exile mentioned in Isaiah
From the JPS (1917) Jewish Bible Tanakh
8 In full measure, when Thou sendest her away, Thou dost contend with her; He hath removed her with His rough blast in the day of the east wind.
9 Therefore by this shall the iniquity of Jacob be expiated, and this is all the fruit of taking away his sin: when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in pieces, so that the Asherim and the sun-images shall rise no more. Their exile was their atonement. No blood was shed for atonement.
Yehoshua was sent as a prophet/messenger. He tells us that he is 'son of man'. He was sent to preach repentance and he did that.
Matthew 3
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 3:
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 11:20
Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Mark 6
11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.
He tells us he is a prophet.
Mat 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. It is possible that Yehoshua was prophesied in Deuteronomy 18, but, there were other prophets after Moses, so it really is hard to say.
Deuteronomy 18
15 A prophet will YHWH thy God raise up unto thee, from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16 according to all that thou didst desire of YHWH thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying: 'Let me not hear again the voice of YHWH my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.'
17 And YHWH said unto me: 'They have well said that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it of him.
20 But the prophet, that shall speak a word presumptuously in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.'
Unfortunately, a lot of people later took some of the words that Yehoshua spoke and gave him the credit instead of YHWH.
well, I see that you’ve figured out how to bold-face text. Just replace the b with a p (for paragraph) between the capital , and capital . and you will have a “paragraph” tag. You only need one, at the end of each paragraph.
The sabbath was created for all mankind. There were no Jews/Israelites in Genesis, at that time all mankind were gentiles.
Genesis 2
1 And the heaven and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God finished His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it; because that in it He rested from all His work which God in creating had made.
In the above verses we have God blessing and sanctifying the seventh day. Making the seventh day holy.
Exodus 20
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath unto YHWH thy God, in it thou shalt not do any manner of work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates;
In the two verses above we see once again, that the seventh day is holy, and we now see that this day is called 'the sabbath'. The seventh day of the week is the sabbath. Over time the numbers given to the days of the week, were replaced by names. Saturday was the name given to the seventh day.
The weekly sabbath day is a foretaste of the "rest" of the millennial kingdom. The Bible is replete with instructions pointing out how to keep the sabbath, the meaning of the sabbath, the blessings of keeping the sabbath, and why the seventh day of the week is important to mankind. Keeping the sabbath allows you to practice, and prepare yourself for the millenial kingdom.
Sabbath Will Be Kept in the Millennium
Isaiah 66
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before Me, saith YHWH, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, saith YHWH.
In the verse above we can see that ALL flesh are to worship before YHWH, on the sabbath.
Revelation 14
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Remember that the faith of Yehoshua is Judaic, though it didn't have a name at the time that Yehoshua practiced it.
Revelation 22
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Keeping the sabbath is the 4th commandment, aand part of the Mosaic Covenenat which we are told is Eternal/Everlasting. At no point has YHWH changed the 4th commandment. YHWH sanctified the Sabbath, Saturday. The Sabbath is YHWH's day. That is from YHWH, and not man-made like SUNday worship, via the 'edict' of Constanintine, in veneration of the Sun.
Constantine placed no Christian appellation upon the worship on the first day of the week, referring to it as the "venerable day of the sun."
Let all judges and all city people and all tradesmen rest upon the venerable day of the sun. But let those dwelling in the country freely and with full liberty attend to the culture of their field; since it frequently happens that no other day is so fit for the sowing of grain or the planting of vines; hence, the favorable time should not be allowed to pass, lest the provisions of heaven be lost. Quoted in Blakely, p. 269
Or if you prefer the Codex Justinianus:
On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time [A.D. 321].) Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p. 380, note 1.
Mark 2
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
The Sabbath is YHWH's Day."
Acts 7 (KJV)
45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;
Hebrews 4 (KJV)
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Acts 7 (NASB)
45 "And having received it in their turn, our fathers (1) brought it in with Joshua upon dispossessing the nations whom God drove out before our fathers, until the time of David.
Hebrews 4 (NASB)
8 For (1) if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.
In BOTH of these verses the person being referred to is Joshua - the servant of Moses that lead Israel into the promised land. The reason the KJV says 'Jesus' is because it comes from the exact same Greek word, Iesous, and the King James Version translators apparently did not catch the error.
These verses help to further understand the difference between translation and transliteration. 'Joshua' is NOT a transliteration, but it does come from the Greek word Iesous, which IS a transliteration. 'Joshua' is a correct translation from the original Hebrew and is the actual "english translation" of their messiah's name. The translators CORRECTLY rendered 'Joshua' because they knew it to be the TRUE translation of the original Hebrew name for the servant of Moses. In short, they ignored the Greek transliteration, Iesous, because they knew it to be faulty.
If the translators of Scripture elsewhere, especially in the O(riginal) Testament and also in most modern versions of the New Testament, CORRECTLY render the SAME Greek word, Iesous, as 'Joshua' in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8, why do they refuse to correct the false rendering of 'Jesus' for the name of their messiah? IT IS THE SAME GREEK WORD! The English equivalent of their messiah's name is 'Joshua' (Yeshua, Yahshua, Yehosua), NOT 'Jesus'.
Why is their messiah's name correctly translated ONLY in the cases where it doesn't apply to him? Why does Christianity willfully refuse to correctly render their messiah's Hebrew name even when they correctly render the exact same Greek word in cases where he is not the one being referenced?
This shows that even translators know 'Jesus' is NOT correct.
There was no J common in the English language until around the 16th century. Prior to that time, those words now shown with a J were pronounced as though the J was a Y. So 'Joshua', even in English, is proven conclusively to be (Yeshua, Yahshua, or Yehoshua) when the original Y sound is used. Thus, it is IMPOSSIBLE for 'Jesus' to be anything close to the true name, because the 'J' sound did not exist when he was alive!
The name that is above all human names on Earth and above all the names of the heavenly host in Heaven, save the name of YHWH, is Yehoshuah or Yeshua, which literally means, YHWH Saves or, Yehovah Saves.
"YHWH SAVES" Yep, just doesn't make Yehoshua a g-d.
Yehoshua is NOT YHWH.
Paul tells us that Yehoshua was a man.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.
Yehoshua makes no distinction between himself and others. We are explicitly told that he is a man, and a prophet. Jesus never explicitly says that he is Our Father/YHWH. Why do people accept vague verses over explicit statements?
Matthew 26
39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
There are clearly two different wills here. Yehoshua and YHWH are NOT one in the same!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.