Posted on 01/31/2011 1:29:50 PM PST by NYer
.- Rome is already bracing for the impact of the many pilgrims who will converge on St. Peter's for the May 1 beatification of Pope John Paul II.
Sleeping space in religious communities across the city - around 15,000 beds - was booked up within a day of the Jan. 14 announcement.
The Domus Aurelia hotel run by the Emmanuel Community has been reserved "since literally two minutes after the announcement," said Lorenzo Amico, who was working the hotel desk at the time. The hotel is located a short way from St. Peter's on foot
Two large groups made the reservations, filling the facility to capacity for an entire week.
"We've received calls continuously since then," Amico told CNA during a Jan. 31 phone conversation. "Even though the entire area is completely full, they keep on calling."
Rooms in hotels around the Vatican were snatched up quickly and those vacancies that remain are in establishments further from St. Peter's. They are priced at more than double - and even triple - normal rates, according to local media reports.
On top of the traffic the beatification will be bringing to the streets of the Eternal City, on May 1 Italy observes a national Day for Workers holiday. The annual celebration is marked by a concert in the square just outside the Basilica of St. John Lateran.
This year, the nationally-televised event that draws around 200,000 young people every year, just happens to fall on Divine Mercy Sunday.
The grand occasions are likely to give Rome a similar feel to the last Vatican event of this magnitude, John Paul II's funeral in 2005. According to the Italian Department of Civil Protection, more than three million people were present for that event.
The city is already organizing itself for the possibility of more than a million visitors. It has a special "operating room" in place as it prepares for an onslaught of pilgrims from all over the world - whether they have a place to stay or not.
With the preliminary decision that no tickets will be issued to pilgrims for the celebration, the weekend is sure to be a long one out in the open for some.
The Via Conciliazione is outside of St. Peter's Square. With the beatification coinciding with the Feast of the Divine, this event may prove to be the most widely attended ever.
No need to look for rooms in Rome. EWTN will provide live coverage! Will post details as they become available.
What place is it of man to declare someone a “Saint”?
Come, rejoice with us in God's abundant mercy!
Like many trads, I’m made uncomfortable by this particular beatification. Think if I were in Rome, the Alps would look especially appealing for some skiing that weekend.
The practice of recognizing saints dates back to the 1st century. It is based on scripture. The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2).
Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).
And those in heaven who offer to God our prayers aren’t just angels, but humans as well. John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.
We see examples of this in the Old Testament as well. In Tobit 12:12,15 - angels place Tobit and Sarah's prayers before the Holy One. This teaches us that the angels are also our subordinate mediators. We pray to the angels to take up our prayers to God. And, in 2 Macc. 15:12-16 – the high priest Onias and the prophet Jeremiah were deceased for centuries, and yet interact with the living Judas Maccabeas and pray for the holy people on earth.
For the same reason that man (Peter) and his successors were given full authority by Christ to declare things bound and unbound on earth and the decision would be acceptable in heaven.
Sleeping space in religious communities across the city - around 15,000 beds - was booked up within a day of the Jan. 14 announcement.
It's a fundraiser!
He has not been declared a saint. That may happen, or not, sometime in the future. A beatification is a step on the road to sainthood, but not the final step.
“The practice of recognizing saints dates back to the 1st century.”
I can find NO historical citation that demonstrates this in this in the 1st century. Do you have one?
“It is based on scripture.”
No. There is NO command to the Church to pray to departed saints. There is no encouragement to pray to departed saints. There is no example of praying to departed saints.
“Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us.”
No. The passage in Revelation does not demonstrate an angel
praying for saints, nor a saint.
“John sees that “the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints” (Rev. 5:8). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.”
This poor Bible work is a result of choosing a doctrine and
then attempting to find scriptural support.
If this were intended by God, it would be commanded and you
could easily find First century demonstrations that it was
the practice of the Church. It arose later and is pagan, I
fear.
Christ is available to take your calls right now. He is standing by!
ampu
ROFL!!!
Thank you for that perfect description of the misnamed "reformation" and the bizarre cult called protestantism that arose from it.
JPII was one of the greatest leaders the world ever saw- him and Reagan and Thatcher brought down Russia without firing a shot...
But saint?
First off, JPII is not being canonized a saint! He is only being beatified. That is the first step. The Catholic Church at one time proclaimed saints by popular acclaim. That changed, decades ago. Here is the current process:
VATICAN CITY, SEP 12, 1997 (VIS) - Today the Holy See Press Office made public the following note on canonical procedure for causes of beatification and canonization:
"1. Canon norms regarding the procedure to be followed for causes of saints are contained in the Apostolic Constitution 'Divinus Perfectionis Magister,' promulgated by John Paul II on January 25, 1983.
"2. To begin a cause it is necessary for at least 5 years to have passed since the death of the candidate. This is to allow greater balance and objectivity in evaluating the case and to let the emotions of the moment dissipate.
"3. The bishop of the diocese in which the person whose beatification is being requested died is responsible for beginning the investigation. The promoter group ('Actor Causae'): diocese, parish, religious congregation, association, asks the bishop through the postulator for the opening of the investigation. The bishop, once the 'nulla osta' of the Holy See is obtained, forms a diocesan tribunal for this purpose. Witnesses are called before the tribunal to recount concrete facts on the exercise of Christian virtues considered heroic, that is, the theological virtues: faith, hope and charity, and the cardinal virtues: prudence, justice, temperance and fortitude, and others specific to his state in life. In addition, all documents regarding the candidate must be gathered. At this point he is entitled to the title of Servant of God.
"4. Once the diocesan investigation is finished, the acts and documentation are passed on to the Congregation for the Causes of Saints. The public copy used for further work is put together here. The postulator, resident in Rome, follows the preparation of the 'Positio', or summary of the documentation that proves the heroic exercise of virtue, under the direction of a relator of the Congregation. The 'Positio' undergoes an examination (theological) by nine theologians who give their vote. If the majority of the theologians are in favour, the cause is passed on for examination by cardinals and bishops who are members of the congregation. They hold meetings twice a month. If their judgment is favourable, the prefect of the congregation presents the results of the entire course of the cause to the Holy Father, who gives his approval and authorizes the congregation to draft the relative decree. The public reading and promulgation of the decree follows.
"5. For the beatification of a confessor a miracle attributed to the Servant of God, verified after his death, is necessary. The required miracle must be proven through the appropriate canonical investigation, following a procedure analogous to that for heroic virtues. This one too is concluded with the relative decree. Once the two decrees are promulgated (regarding the heroic virtues and the miracle) the Holy Father decides on beatification, which is the concession of public worship, limited to a particular sphere. With beatification the candidate receives the title of Blessed.
"6. For canonization another miracle is needed, attributed to the intercession of the Blessed and having occurred after his beatification. The methods for ascertainment of the affirmed miracle are the same as those followed for beatification. Canonization is understood as the concession of public worship in the Universal Church. Pontifical infallibility is involved. With canonization, the Blessed acquires the title of Saint."
In the case of Pope John Paul II, the first approved miracle happens to be that of a woman religious who, like him, suffered from Parkinson's disease.
French religious sister reveals details of John Paul II miracle
In Psalm 103 we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20–21). And in the opening verses of Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!"
Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.
Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3–4).
Jesus himself warned us not to offend small children, because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10).
As the following passages show, the early Church Fathers not only clearly recognized the biblical teaching that those in heaven can and do intercede for us, but they also applied this teaching in their own daily prayer life.
"In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]" (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208]).
Clement of Alexandria"Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides [of death] always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy" (Letters 56[60]:5 [A.D. 253]).
Cyprian of Carthage
There are others but this should be sufficient for your purposes.
No. There is NO command to the Church to pray to departed saints. There is no encouragement to pray to departed saints. There is no example of praying to departed saints.
"Then [during the Eucharistic prayer] we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition . . . " (Catechetical Lectures 23:9 [A.D. 350]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
This poor Bible work is a result of choosing a doctrine and then attempting to find scriptural support.
Lol! Have you ever asked someone to pray for you? People ask people to "pray for me" all the time. Why not ask the Virgin Mary or any other saint to "pray for you?" Just because they are no longer "of this world" does not mean they don't "talk" to God. The saints in heaven are not "separated" by death from the community of the Church (Romans 8:38-39) as we are all one Body in Christ (Romans 12:5; 1 Corinthians 12:12) and Christ "abolished death" (2 Timothy 1:10 ). Therefore, the saints in Heaven can pray for us just as anyone here on Earth can. In fact, better, as they are presently in His Presence. The Virgin Mary asking God to help you should "carry more weight" so to speak than having your best friend on this earth praying for you. In fact, Christ's first public miracle was performed upon the "intercession" of His own mother (John 2:2-11).
“Thank you for that perfect description of the misnamed “reformation” and the bizarre cult called protestantism that arose from it. “
OK, then you should be able to show that this was indeed part of the Apostolic teaching during the 1st century, since
it isn’t found in the writings of the Apostles.
I’m open and not part of the Reformation. Show me.
NYer, you’re a saint. And one day I hope you are a Saint. You have such a wonderfully Christian tilting-at-windmills, casting-pearls-before-swine sticktoittiveness. Yeah, I know it’s not a word, but in your case it should be.
God bless you. And may he keep you as ever patient as you always seem to be.
NYer,
Thanks for your response. Unfortunately, none of your historical references are from the 1st century. None of your passages were written to the Church.
... as to your comments
“Why not ask the Virgin Mary or any other saint to “pray for you?”
Because you do not have any idea that they hear you. Does the Virgin Mary ask you to pray for her? Do the other departed saints ask you to pray for them? Lol. Asking does
not mean you are heard, whereas CHRIST CAN hear and answer.
Mary or other departed believers, who knows?
“Just because they are no longer “of this world” does not mean they don’t “talk” to God.”
Yes, but this begs the question. The issue isn’t whether they
talk to God. It is whether they hear us when we “talk to them”.
“The saints in heaven are not “separated” by death from the community of the Church (Romans 8:38-39)”
This passage says nothing can separate us from the Love of God. It doesn’t say what you imply.
“Therefore, the saints in Heaven can pray for us just as anyone here on Earth can.”
And we are back to substituting praying directly to Christ, as we should and back to not even knowing departed saints can hear us, if we don’t desire to talk to Christ.
“In fact, better, as they are presently in His Presence. “
They are in His presence, but have no more “pull” with Him than any other believer in Christ - present with Him or no.
“The Virgin Mary asking God to help you should “carry more weight” so to speak than having your best friend on this earth praying for you.”
No, according to the Bible, Christians are saints. All saints. Christ’s mom has no more “weight” than another believer in Christ.
“In fact, Christ’s first public miracle was performed upon the “intercession” of His own mother (John 2:2-11).”
Sure, Mary asked Him. This does not mean He will always agree with her.
All I asked for was a first century historical reference that would demonstrate that praying for saints was part of Apostolic teaching or the practice of the Church. As this point in searching, I haven’t found one.
Since the NT contains specific instructions in all that it
takes for operation of the Church and godliness, why is
there no command, instruction or example of praying to a
departed saint? Indeed.
Best,
ampu
Sounds like religion by committee
This is why I dont belong to any of the ‘organized’ religions
Read the bible, do good things. That’s all you need to know.
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