The Pentecostal argument is often, “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever,” implying that whatever methods the Spirit used in the lives of first century believers would still be the ones used today. Presbyterians agree that Christ is immutable, but would make the distinction that, though God in his essence is unchanging, the methods and manners in which he operates towards humankind does change (for example, the Holy Spirit came and left people in the Old Testament, but in the New Testament, he is described as a permanent resident in the believer).
record it and translate- then I’ll believe it is not gross deception
Having said that, I am greatly troubled by what SOME Pentecostal and Charismatic churches teach - that the only evidence one is saved is speaking in tongues. That is most definitely not biblical.
But not just to validate the apostles. I imagine some of these miracles were also intended to pass God's love on to the person being healed.
The author argues that miracles ended with the New Testament age because God needed that validation to inspire the New Testament canon. However, God also did miracles at other times in history i.e. Moses, Elijah, the Judges. I suspect that God will break through and do miracles until the end of time.
Sigh.
My Pastor told me one time privately that he had the gift of tongues. He didn’t bring it up, I asked about it because I wanted to know more about it and see what he thought. He never mentions it because he thinks it would distract from his message. I’ve know him for at least three years and this was the first I heard of it. I believe him, too. He is a man of great integrity and humility and I cannot see him lying.
I would like to hear it though.
Does God still move with power? I think so.
While I believe that 99% or more of the “tongues”, “prophecy” and “healings” you see in the modern Pentecostal and Charsimatic movements are fake (though many of those “experiencing” them honestly believe they are real), I find no Biblical basis for the idea that these gifts would totally cease, before the return of Christ.
Total cessesationists are effectively (and ironically) practicing experiencial theology (”We haven’t seen these gifts in a long time, so they must have ceased no matter what the Bible says”) just like the crazier Pentecostals and Charismatics.
I agree with John Wesley who basically taught that the miraculous gift were probably rare in biblical times and were even rarer in his time.
When St Paul uses the KJV term “unknown” tongue in Corinthians he is referring to foreign languages, as the Geneva Bible shows. Other bibles use the term “tongues”.
Matthew Henry’s commentaries shows it is foreign languages.
Some of Jim & Tammy Bakker’s people later said they “faked” tongues.
In some Penticostal churches you better come out of the baptismal waters speaking in tongues or you are not “saved”. So there was a private class on how to fake it. I talked with a former Penticostal who told how to fake it, and get children to learn how.
Speaking in tongues in reality is saying something in one's chosen language with the intent of transmitting a particular message but having the Holy spirit impart the message "He" desires the listener to hear.
e.g. Speaker: "It sure is a nice day today." Listener hears: "Today is a good day to visit your sick mother."
Based on the chorus to the song “Angels We Have Heard On High”, its pretty obvious that the language spoken in Heaven is Latin.
Though based on Genesis where Moses claims to get antediluvian genealogies and maps from ‘The Book of Adam’, one could argue that Hebrew is God’s language.
I find it amusing that people only speak in tongues in churches where speaking in tongues is spoken.
Posted by a Roman Catholic, this thread is painfully obvious. I’m sorry to disappoint all those Roman Catholic apologists who would like to see swords drawn over this issue, but it won’t happen.
In my reading of Scripture, I believe “speaking in tongues” was most probably speaking another language; a language foreign to most of the assembled. And from this it became obvious that the Bible should be translated into the vernacular so that all men everywhere could read the Bible in their own language to know the things of God, if God so willed.
If a Pentecostal chooses to believe differently, it makes for an interesting discussion. But in no way is this difference a salvation issue. Men have either been redeemed by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross ALONE, or they have not. And that merciful understanding is what sets apart the sheep from the goats.
Sadly, Rome, with its “co-redeemers” and “another Christ,” is more often than not on the wrong side of that truth.
Why do you care?
You’re EO by your own admission. What’s it to you what non-Catholics believe about speaking in tongues and why’d you post this thread?