The Not So Secret Rapture

reformed.org ^ | W. Fred Rice

[topcat54]

Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.

[Cronos]

1. a. Whatever a poster says is his opinion is his opinion, to extrapolate it to all the members of his religious group is like me taking the views of an Oneness Pentecostal and saying all Protestants believe that -- it's silly.
1.b. --> Mark hasn't ever said that "scripture contains errors" -- he has just pointed out that the Bible being an inanimate non-decision making entity is neither fallible nor infallible. However, he HAS pointed out that it is inerrant, i.e. without error. No inanimate non-decision making entity can be fallible/infallible -- that word indicates a decision making capability. however, it can be errant/inerrant AND, the Bible IS inerrant.
1.c. --> I've posted you a link to what The Church teaches -- and those are pretty clear (see post 2471 above)

2. You posted a link to an internet poll of 41 people and you think that you can extrapolate that to say 1.2 billion people think that way? That's stupid, I'm sorry to say

3. I posted a link to Catholic doctrine online and you say that you don't believe what the Church puts in writing, yet you'll believe an MSM like the Times of London? Especially when the article is wrong and only quotes excerpts from the original bishops articles and out of context -- read my post 2479 for more details

4. I posted what Dei Verbum ACTUALLY says (This is what Dei Verbum actually says: "it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error", and " For the Sacred Scriptures contain the word of God and since they are inspired really are the word of God; and it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error " --> this is NOT quoted in the Times of london article, they only refer to it and give their own interpretation of it" --> refer my post 2571 for what Dei Verbum ACTUALLY says

You aren't even reading Dei verbum yourself but quoting from a misquote. REad it if you want to posit serious scholarship instead of hearsay.

[Cronos]

Let me repeat this

2. You posted a link to an internet poll of 41 people and you think that you can extrapolate that to say 1.2 billion people think that way?




That's stupid, I'm sorry to say

[Cronos]

And, let me repeat what Dei Verbum actually says once more so that you actually READ it

1. Therefore, since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit,
2. it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings
3. God speaks in Sacred Scripture through men in human fashion, (6) the interpreter of Sacred Scripture, in order to see clearly what God wanted to communicate to us, should carefully investigate what meaning the sacred writers really intended, and what God wanted to manifest by means of their words.....no less serious attention must be given to the content and unity of the whole of Scripture if the meaning of the sacred texts is to be correctly worked out..
4. The Church has always venerated the divine Scriptures just as she venerates the body of the Lord, since, especially in the sacred liturgy, she unceasingly receives and offers to the faithful the bread of life from the table both of God's word and of Christ's body.
5. Therefore, like the Christian religion itself, all the preaching of the Church must be nourished and regulated by Sacred Scripture. For in the sacred books, the Father who is in heaven meets His children with great love and speaks with them;
6. For the Sacred Scriptures contain the word of God and since they are inspired really are the word of God; and so the study of the sacred page is, as it were, the soul of sacred theology.

Get it?

[Cronos]

Finally, you said "the Dei Verbum which is quoted in the Times of London " --> that's a lie, I repeat, that is a lie.

All that the article does say is "The new teaching has been issued as part of the 40th anniversary celebrations of Dei Verbum," --> no quote from it, nothing.

[Cronos]

If you are in any way seriously discussing, you have to admit that an internet, unscientific poll of 41 people is hardly any better than a show of hands at a discussion club and extrapolating that to 1.2 billion people is sheer stupidity.

Secondly, if you in any way want to display serious scholarship, read the Dei verbum (link above) or read the excerpts I gave you. If you want to read the REAL article that the Times of London distorts, you can download it here

[topcat54]

Depends on what you mean by "Reformed Theology."

How so? I'm not aware of any significant debate over the meaning of the term.

[metmom]

[metmom]

Let me repeat this

2. You posted a link to an internet poll of 41 people and you think that you can extrapolate that to say 1.2 billion people think that way?

That's stupid, I'm sorry to say

And yet when I pointed out that most Catholics don't read the Bible and someone told me that three on FR did.

So I asked what percentage of three out of 1,200,000,000 was and was told that three out of three was 100%.

Whatever works best, eh?

[Religion Moderator]

Both of you, do not make the thread "about" individual Freepers. That is also a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[Cronos]

Bluntly, Alamo-Girl, it’s a hit-piece by the MSM. The Scripture is GOLD-Standard to us, Tradition must be verified against it. You may not believe that we hold Church teachings, but we do not in any way subordinate scripture.

[Cronos]

Let's see, you say you would believe a Times excerpted article: "another article Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible."

This is after I gave you adequate links from Catholic doctrine that we believe scripture to be inerrant and you reply that "Quite frankly, I don't give two hoots what the Church has stated in writing"

[Cronos]

RM, Thanks for pulling Dr. E's "marking it personal" post.

I have no intention of stooping to that level. I'll just post excerpts from the opc website that talk about how they consider Arminians as d*mnable heresy

[Cronos]

Dear Metmom,

HarleyD and me, folks who believe that Jesus Christ is God are discussing Christian topics among ourselves.

If you wish, you can go to this website which has a lot of Biblical proof that Jesus Christ IS God.

Thank you and Regards,
Cronos

[Cronos]

bai caramba (btw, Dr. E — that is some spanish exclamation, I don’t think it has any meaning) — you’re still there on YOUR thread after it degenerated like most into an anti-Catholic screed? :-P

[count-your-change]

“How did the Roman Catholic church historically do it?”

Pope(far from)Innocent issued an order for the extermination of the Waldeneses in France and thousands were killed.

Just makes a person long for the “good old days”.

[Quix]

Indeed.

[Quix]

ANOTHER GREAT ONE.

Won’t likely get to Quixicating it but AM posting it on my FR home page.

Thx.

[Alamo-Girl]

The Scripture is GOLD-Standard to us, Tradition must be verified against it. You may not believe that we hold Church teachings, but we do not in any way subordinate scripture.

I'm very glad to hear your testimony, dear brother in Christ!

It is deeply disturbing to me whenever a Catholic around here claims that the Catholic Church wrote the Scriptures and so forth - because such a boast appropriates glory which belongs to God. Moreover, the boast subordinates the Scriptures to the Catholic Church as the author/creator of them.

The oracles are God's and it is He who commits those oracles to safekeeping by His own chosen people.

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. - Romans 3:1-2

As every man hath received the gift, [even so] minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. If any man speak, [let him speak] as the oracles of God; if any man minister, [let him do it] as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. - I Peter 4:10-11

And again,

The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. – Psalms 12:6-7

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it. - Isaiah 55:11

I do not recall hearing the Jews boast that they wrote Torah. Quite the opposite.

Perhaps the Catholics so boasting believe they are justified on belief that members of the Catholic Church alone comprise the body of Christ. But even if they were right (and they are not) Christ Himself is the head of His body, the church, and surely all glory for a manuscript goes to its author, his mind, not his fingers, elbows and toes.

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. - Colossians 1:18

And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. - Ephesians 1:22-23

To God be the glory, not man, never man.

[Quix]

Very well put.

[Quix]

Stopping 2 year old yellow water shots seems to be a recurring task for you.