Well, if you insist:
Posted on 01/14/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by topcat54
Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...
Frankly, and with all due respect to Kosta, if someone does not believe in the inerrant and infallible word of God then I'm not impressed with whatever purported knowledge they and others claim to have. People can cite Greek and Hebrew until the cows come home but it means nothing.
The Church declared the scriptures to be infallible. We can argue, and have, about whether scripture derives it authority from the Church or the Church derives its authority from scripture. But the bottom line is the scriptures are the only writing to be declared by the Church to be infallible and inerrant. So for someone to come along and say the scriptures are in error and incomplete goes against centuries of Church teaching. I don't need to hear the arguments laid out by atheists and agnostics. Yet you subscribe to this as "knowledgeable" and as an "expert".
Are you ready right here and now to accept our friend kosta's view that the scriptures are in error or are you going to accept the Church's teaching of the inerrant and infallibility of scripture? Do you think that Paul's writings were bigoted? Frankly, I don't expect an answer. When I have asked this questions of other Catholics they become silent on the matter. Catholics no longer believe in the inerrant and infallible word of God.
I'll settle for those who have a child like faith in God's word any day then those who fancy themselves as "experts". Those who accepts God's word as it exist and look for insight rather than controversy. I am not impressed by those who have a low view of God's word. God certainly doesn't and neither should we. Experts such as this provides me with no spiritual insight.
From an earthly perspective, we lose the amount of happiness, joy and love that God has for us.
From a heavenly perspective, when we all reach heaven, when we all see our Lord Jesus, when we know of all the works that He has done through our lives, we will take off our crowns and cast them down at His glorious feet. It will be our blessing to know that those works were freely given for God loves a cheerful giver.
Boy! You’ve got the witmeister turned up to high this evening. You got a date??? ;o)
Some Scripture to ponder.
2 Peter 2
1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; 5if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked 8(for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); 9then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, 10and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.
Bold and willful, they do not tremble as they blaspheme the glorious ones, 11 whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a blasphemous judgment against them before the Lord. 12 But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming about matters of which they are ignorant, will also be destroyed in their destruction, 13suffering wrong as the wage for their wrongdoing. They count it pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, while they feast with you. 14They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! 15Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing, 16but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
17 These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm. For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved. 18For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. 20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22What the true proverb says has happened to them: "The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire."
Romans 1:18-23
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
Great photos of some wonderful statues of the righteous theologian, John Calvin. Thank you.
There is no admonition against building statues.
There is, however, God’s curse on anyone who builds a statue and prays to that statue, such as the many statues of Mary and various saints Roman Catholics pray to, thus revealing their grave error.
If and when you EVER find a Protestant praying to John Calvin, be sure to let us know.
Until then, please post as many pictures of John Calvin as possible. They remind us that brave men before us, armed with the word of God and the shield of faith, challenged the blasphemy and superstition of Rome, and in Calvin’s case, left us with an elegant Commentary to the Scriptures and the brilliant “Institutes of the Christian Religion.”
Taking a break from grading papers.
LOL.
Thx.
Frankly, and with all due respect to Kosta, if someone does not believe in the inerrant and infallible word of God then I'm not impressed with whatever purported knowledge they and others claim to have. People can cite Greek and Hebrew until the cows come home but it means nothing.
Nothing to you, you mean. I am an engineer. I prefer facts where facts matter. I believe that existance exists and that reality is reality. I also hold the Faith. I'm not impressed with those who create their own faith.
The Church declared the scriptures to be infallible. We can argue, and have, about whether scripture derives it authority from the Church or the Church derives its authority from scripture. But the bottom line is the scriptures are the only writing to be declared by the Church to be infallible and inerrant. So for someone to come along and say the scriptures are in error and incomplete goes against centuries of Church teaching. I don't need to hear the arguments laid out by atheists and agnostics. Yet you subscribe to this as "knowledgeable" and as an "expert".
You are not of the Faith. What does it matter what the Church teaches? I never called Kosta expert; I merely said that he is knowledgeable. I believe the Church; I appreciate Kosta's knowledge of how Scripture developed.
Are you ready right here and now to accept our friend kosta's view that the scriptures are in error or are you going to accept the Church's teaching of the inerrant and infallibility of scripture? Do you think that Paul's writings were bigoted? Frankly, I don't expect an answer. When I have asked this questions of other Catholics they become silent on the matter. Catholics no longer believe in the inerrant and infallible word of God.
The Word of God is infallible. The interpretation of the word of God is infallible. That is the Catholic belief. If you think that you hold the original writings of whoever Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were in your hands, then you are sadly mistaken. Hint: they didn't write the King James version.
I'll settle for those who have a child like faith in God's word any day then those who fancy themselves as "experts". Those who accepts God's word as it exist and look for insight rather than controversy. I am not impressed by those who have a low view of God's word. God certainly doesn't and neither should we. Experts such as this provides me with no spiritual insight.
Is it all about you? What you'll settle for? What impresses you? Who provides you with things? Your discourse has degenerated over the months, my friend. You don't have the word of God as it exists; you have the KJV or whatever it is that you are reading. In English. God gave us His word in Greek and we have exactly none of the original manuscripts. We have what the Nicene Council tells us is the word of God in Greek. Do you accept that?
Yeah, 30 foot tall statues of Calvin dwarfing the other Reformers, when after all, he was described as a short man. I guess that his deficiencies were not all in one area.
Until then, please post as many pictures of John Calvin as possible. They remind us that brave men before us, armed with the word of God and the shield of faith, challenged the blasphemy and superstition of Rome, and in Calvin’s case, left us with an elegant Commentary to the Scriptures and the brilliant “Institutes of the Christian Religion.”
Yes, they dwarf all the other Reformation literature. Very big of you to notice.
Wrong, profoundlty wrong. If you were correct then the ministry of Paul would be an after thought. Perhaps that is why some in the grand institution want to marginalize Paul and the revelations Jesus gave Paul to pass along to us!Awaken to truth and stop swallowing the koolaid of institutional origin.
The ministry of Paul is no more wrong than are the ministries of Peter, James, John, et al. There is no marginalization of Paul - he, along with Peter are considered the two greatest of the Apostles by the Church. But remember that the Paulicians (of various sorts) were all condemned as heretics by the Church in the first millennium. If you read Paul as a great Apostle, bishop and evangelist, then you are in accord with the Church. If you read Paul as the central figure or conveyor of theology in Christianity, then you are a Christian heretic.
Then you’ve just branded some of your Catholic cohorts here on FR as heretics.
There are a couple at the very least, who say that the Catholic church’s theology is Pauline.
Then who or what is the central figure or conveyor of Christian theology? Or more precisely, who or what is the central figure or conveyor of CATHOLIC theology?
Care to elaborate on this? And would you care to let us know your understanding of Pauline versus Paulician?
And you call yourself a former Catholic? You don't know?
The central figure is Christ. Read the Catechism if you don't believe it. The more we converse, the more that I think that there is no possible way that you could have been Catholic.
Well, if you insist:
I don’t recall the Catholic church teaching that I must be born again (John 3).
Or that the work of God is to believe Him (John 6)
Or that salvation is through faith (Luke 18, John 3)
And where did Jesus instruct us to pray to those canonized as saints and to Mary?
Or to establish a new system of works by which to earn our salvation?
So establish a new tradition to replace the one He spend three years condemning because it nullified God’s word?
Where did Jesus instruct us to canonize saints to begin with?
The Catholic church of course ignores Scripture it finds inconvenient. That’s why, even though Peter called Paul’s writings *Scripture* the Catholic church dismisses them as insignificant.
Then what do you hold in your hands? It is either the infallible word of God exactly as Matthew, et alt wrote it to be or it's trash.
Nothing to you, you mean. I am an engineer. I prefer facts where facts matter.
So? I'm a computer analyst who deals with a great deal in statistical data. I to am interested in facts where facts matters. So let's look at the facts. You state that you believe in the infallible word of God. Then you state that we don't really have the word of God as it exist. Then you state that the Nicene Council agree on the word of God. Then you state that you appreciate kosta's view on how scripture develop even though he doesn't agree on the infallibility or inerrancy of scripture. Those are the facts. So for someone to tell me they're interested in facts, don't these facts seem a bit inconsistent?
Your discourse has degenerated over the months, my friend. You don't have the word of God as it exists;
Perhaps my discourse seems to have degenerated over months because all that seems to be written is double-speak. Either the scriptures are the word of God as it exists or it's not. If you don't believe it's the King James, then would you believe it's the Catholic approved American Standard?
God gave us His word in Greek and we have exactly none of the original manuscripts. We have what the Nicene Council tells us is the word of God in Greek. Do you accept that?
We don't have the Ten Commandments written by God's finger from Mount Sinai. Yet we know what the Ten Commandments are. The Nicene Council was formed in 325AD. They knew they had the infallible word of God otherwise they wouldn't have said so, isn't that correct? The Church can't be wrong, can it?
And the Church was condemned by the church...
If you read Paul as a great Apostle, bishop and evangelist, then you are in accord with the Church. If you read Paul as the central figure or conveyor of theology in Christianity, then you are a Christian heretic.
No, a Catholic heretic maybe, but certainly not a Christian heretic...
The mystery of the Gospel of the Grace of God was given to Paul to bring to the church...Jesus did not teach anyone the Gospel of the Grace of God...Paul did...
To Paul it was given the responsibility to bring the church to the Gentiles...Jesus didn't do it; He was buried and risen...
To Paul it was given to explain the workings of the church and it requirements and responsibilities...Jesus didn't do it; He had been resurrected...
It was given to Paul by Jesus to teach the church on this side of the Cross the new revelations of Jesus...The adoption of the Gentiles, the Gospel of the Grace of God, the Rapture, Faith without works, the Body of Christ, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the believer, the Judgment Seat of Christ, etc...
None of these things were revealed by Jesus while He was on the earth...These things are all on this side of the Cross...Your religion is stuck on the other side of the Cross...
You all will be judged by your works...We have been judged already; and found to be just...Jesus made the complete payment for us, in full...
It's almost funny but actually really sad to see people who are stuck on the wrong side of the Cross try to explain the scriptures to those of us on this side of the Cross...
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