Archdiocese of Milwaukee filing Chapter 11

Archdiocese of Milwaukee ^ | 1/4/2010 | Archbishop Jerome Listecki

[ADSUM]

Letter from Archbishop Jerome Listecki, Milwaukee

[marshmallow]

How did the Catholic Church allow him to become an Archbishop in the first place? On a much earlier thread, I was told that Weakland was in "denial of key points of Catholic teaching." How then did he make it through the bishop selection process? Who was so impressed as to later promote him to archbishop? Who was his overseer? Who gives such an ungodly man a place of authority and trust in a church, and why?

The mystery of iniquity, Alex, the mystery of iniquity..........

"Ungodly men" are to be found within the Church in any historical era. The very first Apostles contained a Judas in their midst and their latter day successors are likewise afflicted. It will be so until the end.

It makes no difference if it's 4%, 66% or 99%. The Church will always endure. That's the Catholic Church, I mean. No amount of sin, scandal or human wretchedness will ever negate its apostolic origins nor the promises Jesus made to it. On the contrary, the Church's perseverance in spite of it being wounded so often and so grievously from within is proof of its Divine origin.

It's a mistake to believe that if sin and scandal rises to some arbitrary level, the Church's mission is voided and we're free to abandon it.

[A.A. Cunningham]

I’ve had countless flame wars with folks right here on FR who tell me there are no pedophiles in the Catholic church.

No doubt you've got links to those "countless flame wars", right?

You aren't so much of a simpleton to fail to distinguish the difference between a pedophile and an ephebophile are you?

[dangus]

Well, I for one, am one who’s led the charge on pointing out that the perpetrators are not truly pedophiles, because their victims are post-pubescent. But they are still boys.

The intent in this charge is not to excuse the priests, as if their crimes are any less heinous, but to give lie to the false claims by the media that this has nothing to do with homosexuals. Rather, it has everything to do with homosexuals, and an extremely urgent requirement of reform is to man up to political-correctness crowd and keep those with disordered sexuality out of the priesthood.

Personally, I believe that the crisis stems from three very politically incorrect facts:

1. The celibate life of a priest is a very dangerous environment for those with dysfunctional sexuality.

2. Far too many with disordered sexuality sought out the priesthood precisely because of their disorders, believing that celibacy would render their dysfunctions moot.

3. A major cause of the perpetuation of abuse was that the church looked to secular “experts,” such as civil lawyers and psychologists, instead of canonical lawyers, confessors, and even exorcists. Civil lawyers’ purposes were to avoid lost investment, and psychologists’ purposes was rehab; the church’s purpose should have been to remove offenders from their ministry (cf. Nicene Council), THEN incarcerate the guilty, THEN spiritually assist the victims and ALL THE WHILE looking to spiritual combat to save the souls of the scandalized and yes, the perpetrators.

[dangus]

Well, I for one, am one who’s led the charge on pointing out that the perpetrators are not truly pedophiles, because their victims are post-pubescent. But they are still boys.

The intent in this charge is not to excuse the priests, as if their crimes are any less heinous, but to give lie to the false claims by the media that this has nothing to do with homosexuals. Rather, it has everything to do with homosexuals, and an extremely urgent requirement of reform is to man up to political-correctness crowd and keep those with disordered sexuality out of the priesthood.

Personally, I believe that the crisis stems from three very politically incorrect facts:

1. The celibate life of a priest is a very dangerous environment for those with dysfunctional sexuality.

2. Far too many with disordered sexuality sought out the priesthood precisely because of their disorders, believing that celibacy would render their dysfunctions moot.

3. A major cause of the perpetuation of abuse was that the church looked to secular “experts,” such as civil lawyers and psychologists, instead of canonical lawyers, confessors, and even exorcists. Civil lawyers’ purposes were to avoid lost investment, and psychologists’ purposes was rehab; the church’s purpose should have been to remove offenders from their ministry (cf. Nicene Council), THEN incarcerate the guilty, THEN spiritually assist the victims and ALL THE WHILE looking to spiritual combat to save the souls of the scandalized and yes, the perpetrators.

[TSgt]

You aren't so much of a simpleton to fail to distinguish the difference between a pedophile and an ephebophile are you?

Ephebophilia is the sexual preference of adults for mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19.

22% were younger than age 10

51% were between the ages of 11 and 14

27% were between the ages to 15 to 17 years

73% of the victims were under the age of 15. Who is the simpleton?

[Secret Agent Man]

It would also be good to take down Weakland’s name off the buildings it still owns. Why you’d want the guy’s name who is responsible for all the stuff you mentioned the church has done since 2002, still on the buildings honored that way, is beyond me.

Why honor the guy that caused the dicoese to have to do all you mentioned in that long list?

[Salvation]

Church Renovation ("Wreckovation")
Fr. Richard Vosko	Well known for modernist Church renovations which do not uphold the Catholic requirements.
Bishop Rembert Weakland  (now retired)	Modernist militant Bishop of Milwaukee openly defies Vatican orders that his Cathedral wreckovation does not meet Church teachings.

[TSgt]

You got to see this unbelievable apologist quote:

"Well, I for one, am one who’s led the charge on pointing out that the perpetrators are not truly pedophiles" - dangus

Per the incomplete John Jay report: 22% were younger than age 10, 51% were between the ages of 11 and 14, 27% were between the ages to 15 to 17 years

73% of the victims were under the age of 15.

But they weren't pedophiles...

[TSgt]

Salvation, we often disagree but I personally think you are very likely a good natured person who truly wants to do right her faith.

That said, do you not agree that the priests who molested children were pedophiles?

Not all priests, just those who were found to be guilty or plead guilty.

Throw me a bone.

[metmom]

The denial amongst Catholics of any flaw or impropriety within the Catholic church or in regard to its actions or decisions, is simply staggering.

And just what’s a CHURCH doing filing Chapter 11 anyway?

[wmfights]

And just what’s a CHURCH doing filing Chapter 11 anyway?

Recognizing their total failure and the unwillingness of their members to keep giving huge sums for the defense of evil.

Because the RCC chose to try and "sweep the problem under the rug" instead of doing the right thing and aggressively investigating it, alerting the public and notifying law enforcement they deserve all the scorn they get.

[Hieronymus]

If one believes that Judaism is from God, then priests who are guilty of sexual exploitation being sheltered by superiors does not rule out the possibility that the Church is still from God, as precisely that situation arises in I Samuel 2:22-25, with Eli and the boys. They are not walking a godly path, but they are still the representatives of God—very flawed representatives, but representatives none the less.
If I were king of Wisconsin and could get the Church to strip Weakland of his clerical state, he would be facing a date with a millstone. If I were Pope, I would strip him of his clerical state. If I were God . . . but I am none of these, and trust that God in His providence will work things out for God’s greater glory.

That said, the horrible way in which the Church is run is actually a proof of divine grace. One Pope, I believe Pius VI, responded to Napoleon when Napoleon said that he would destroy the Church “You silly little man, if we and our priests haven’t managed to destroy the Church in 18 centuries, what makes you think that you can do it.”

I trust the authorities of the Church, when teaching authoritatively, to say things that ought to be listened to—and I trust providence to order things through them in such a way that God’s glory will eventually be manifest. I also suspect that words attributed to St. John Chrysostom (rightly or not I do not know) may be proven right: The walls of hell are lined with mitres. This is not to say that bishops are not ordained by Christ, but that much is expected from those to whom much is given, and so the path of salvation for a bishop is very hard and full of all sorts of temptations.

Trust God, and trust Him to act through those who He bestows authority upon—He writes straight with crooked lines.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

What the Church has Done

Huh? The "church" of Rome has destroyed children and families and faith. Rome has elevated pedophiles to the ignominious position of "another Christ" and let them loose to minister to innocents whom they betray in the most vile way possible.

The RCC will NEVER rid itself of this disgusting, Christ-denying, faith-corrupting blight until it abolishes its blasphemous belief in its "alter Christus."

Parents who hand over their children to this property management conglomerate cross-dressing as a church can never say they haven't been warned.

God willing, Milwaukee signals a trend.

[presently no screen name]

The denial amongst Catholics of any flaw or impropriety within the Catholic church or in regard to its actions or decisions, is simply staggering.

IMO, they can't see evil when it starts them in the face. Products of brainwashing.

[metmom]

If one believes that Judaism is from God, then priests who are guilty of sexual exploitation being sheltered by superiors does not rule out the possibility that the Church is still from God, as precisely that situation arises in I Samuel 2:22-25, with Eli and the boys. They are not walking a godly path, but they are still the representatives of God—very flawed representatives, but representatives none the less.

If you use that example, your priests ought to be shaking in their boots.

You are aware, aren't you, of what fate awaited the sons of Eli because nobody dealt with them?

1 Samuel 2 27And there came a man of God to Eli and said to him, "Thus the LORD has said, 'Did I indeed reveal myself to the house of your father when they were in Egypt subject to the house of Pharaoh? 28 Did I choose him out of all the tribes of Israel to be my priest, to go up to my altar, to burn incense, to wear an ephod before me? I gave to the house of your father all my offerings by fire from the people of Israel. 29Why then do you scorn my sacrifices and my offerings that I commanded, and honor your sons above me by fattening yourselves on the choicest parts of every offering of my people Israel?' 30Therefore the LORD, the God of Israel, declares: 'I promised that your house and the house of your father should go in and out before me forever,' but now the LORD declares: 'Far be it from me, for those who honor me I will honor, and those who despise me shall be lightly esteemed. 31Behold, the days are coming when I will cut off your strength and the strength of your father’s house, so that there will not be an old man in your house. 32Then in distress you will look with envious eye on all the prosperity that shall be bestowed on Israel, and there shall not be an old man in your house forever. 33The only one of you whom I shall not cut off from my altar shall be spared to weep his eyes out to grieve his heart, and all the descendants of your house shall die by the sword of men. 34 And this that shall come upon your two sons, Hophni and Phinehas, shall be the sign to you: both of them shall die on the same day. 35 And I will raise up for myself a faithful priest, who shall do according to what is in my heart and in my mind. And I will build him a sure house, and he shall go in and out before my anointed forever. 36And everyone who is left in your house shall come to implore him for a piece of silver or a loaf of bread and shall say, "Please put me in one of the priests’ places, that I may eat a morsel of bread."'"

It never ceases to amaze me how Catholics will justify and excuse any evil perpetrated or protected in and by the Catholic church.

I have rarely seen a people so willfully blind to the evil in their midst.

Catholics condemn corrupt and immoral behavior in non-Catholics, but excuse and justify and cover up corrupt and immoral behavior in Catholic priests.

The kind of evil and corruption that exists in the Catholic church and has for centuries certainly does rule out the possibility that the Catholic church is of God.

That said, the horrible way in which the Church is run is actually a proof of divine grace.

IOW, the more evil and immoral it gets, the more it's proof it's from God?

just.......

wow.......

Words fail me.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

They haven't been encouraged to use their God-given conscience nor to read and understand the Bible on their own. They do not trust God to send the Holy Spirit to guide their learning.

Apparently it's a lot easier to just hand over your brains to a bunch of old men in dresses and to follow their directives right off the cliff.

They hear "private interpretation" and figure that means we're not supposed to read the Bible on our own, oblivious to the fact that the admonition against "private interpretation" means that it is the Holy Spirit who wields the sword of Scripture and enlightens our understanding.

Sadly, they are very poorly "catechized."

[metmom]

gamecock, here's another one for your list.

That said, the horrible way in which the Church is run is actually a proof of divine grace.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I have rarely seen a people so willfully blind to the evil in their midst.

Catholics condemn corrupt and immoral behavior in non-Catholics, but excuse and justify and cover up corrupt and immoral behavior in Catholic priests.

These are great threads, aren't they? We can see up-close and personal just how far RCs will go to defend the indefensible.

Corruption begets corruption.

[Hieronymus]

You are aware, aren’t you, of what fate awaited the sons of Eli because nobody dealt with them?

---

Yes, very much so, —if you had read as far as the second paragraph of my post, it is fairly evident. The elipsed out thoughts refer to re-enacting Leviticus 10:2—though this would likely reduce the number of men willing to become Bishops or priests significantly.

Things racked by sin are inherently unstable. The kingdoms of this world pass, even when they are well run over periods of time. The Church endures not because her human management is dominated by evil geniuses, but because God works through the weak tools that He has chosen.

I suspect, being a Catholic who has devoted some twenty years to studying the Church and her teachings, that I am far more aware of the weakness of the Church than you—but where weakness abounds, grace abounds the more.

Weakland has many other flaws, and frankly, has damaged the Church far more deeply than driving an archdiocese into chapter 11. But the Church will survive by God’s grace.

[presently no screen name]

That said, the horrible way in which the Church is run is actually a proof of divine grace

Don't associated God with evil!

Isaiah 5:20 "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter'.