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Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ
LDS.org ^ | Dennis B. Neuenschwander

Posted on 01/02/2011 5:46:30 PM PST by Paragon Defender

Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ

By Elder Dennis B. Neuenschwander Of the Seventy

 

 

 

Dennis B. Neuenschwander, “Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ,” Ensign, Jan 2009, 16–22

Adapted from a presentation to the Seventy.

 

 

 

In the Doctrine and Covenants we read that Joseph Smith was “called of God, and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ” (D&C 20:2). The call of an Apostle is first to witness or testify of Jesus Christ. Old Testament prophets testified of His coming. The New Testament Apostles bore personal witness of Christ’s being and of the absolute reality of His Resurrection. This apostolic witness was the basis of their teaching. “Ye shall be witnesses unto me” (Acts 1:8) was Jesus’s instruction to the original Twelve. Peter testified on the day of Pentecost to the Jews who had gathered “out of every nation” (Acts 2:5) that “this Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses” (Acts 2:32). Similarly, Paul wrote to the Corinthians that Jesus “was seen of me also” (1 Corinthians 15:8). The sure witness of Christ’s being and the reality of His Resurrection is the first pillar of apostolic testimony.

The second pillar is centered on the Savior’s redemptive and saving power. Peter teaches that to the Lord “give all the Prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43).

Without these twin pillars of testimony concerning Christ, there could be no Apostle. Such testimonies are born of experience, divine command, and instruction. For example, Luke writes that Christ showed Himself to the Apostles “alive after his passion … being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God” (Acts 1:3).

How does the Prophet Joseph Smith fit into these apostolic requirements? The answer is “Perfectly.”

The First Vision

Joseph Smith’s apostolic instruction began in 1820. Pondering the questions of religion, he soon found that there was no way to reason or argue one’s opinion to an authoritative conclusion concerning the correctness of the various churches or their doctrines. Short of a divine manifestation, young Joseph could add only one more opinion to the already existing “war of words and tumult of opinions” (Joseph Smith—History 1:10). But Joseph’s questions on religion were answered by the personal and physical manifestation of God the Father and His divine and living Son, Jesus Christ—an experience referred to as the First Vision.

Like that of the original Apostles, Joseph’s experience with Deity was direct and personal. There was no need for the opinion of others or the deliberations of a council to define what he saw or what it came to mean to him. Joseph’s vision was at first an intensely personal experience—an answer to a specific question. Over time, however, illuminated by additional experience and instruction, it became the founding revelation of the Restoration.

As apostolic as this manifestation of Christ’s being, existence, and Resurrection was to Joseph Smith, it was not the only thing Jesus wanted to teach him. The boy Joseph’s first lesson arose from the manifestation of Christ’s absolute, omnipotent, and divine power. Joseph learned firsthand at least one meaning of the redeeming and saving power of Christ when he prayed in the grove. As he began to pray, “Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction” (Joseph Smith—History 1:15). With every bit of energy Joseph had, he began to call upon God to deliver him from the grasp of this enemy.

“At the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction … , I saw a pillar of light. …

“It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound” (Joseph Smith—History 1:16–17).

Joseph Smith’s confrontation with the adversary is reminiscent of an experience Moses had, about which the Prophet would learn some few years later. Unlike the boy Joseph, however, Moses saw God’s greatness first and then was confronted with the power of the adversary before being delivered from his influence. (See Moses 1.)

The difference in the order of events is significant. Moses was already far into maturity and had much knowledge and influence prior to this event. By displaying His magnificent power to Moses before he faced the adversary, the Lord helped Moses put his life into perspective. After experiencing God’s glory, Moses said, “Now, for this cause I know that man is nothing, which thing I never had supposed” (Moses 1:10). This incident enabled Moses to withstand the temptations of the adversary that followed.

Joseph Smith, on the other hand, was an inexperienced young man, who in his lifetime would repeatedly face adversarial power and the overwhelming problems it brings. By facing the adversary first, then being saved from his assault by the appearance of the Father and the Son, Joseph learned this indelible lesson: as great as the power of evil might be, it must always withdraw with the appearance of righteousness.

This lesson was critical in Joseph’s apostolic education. He needed this knowledge not only because of the personal trials that lay ahead of him but also because of the overwhelming opposition he would face in founding and directing the Church.

The boy Joseph went into the grove seeking wisdom, and wisdom he received. His apostolic instruction had begun. Among the great apostolic lessons of this First Vision were both the physical nature of the Savior and Heavenly Father and the initial and fundamental lessons relating to Their power—each a pillar of apostolic testimony.

The Book of Mormon

Joseph Smith’s early apostolic instruction continued with his translation of the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon gave Joseph access to “the fulness of the everlasting Gospel” (Joseph Smith—History 1:34), principles that were necessary to understand even prior to the organization of the Church. The Prophet was introduced to numerous “plain and most precious” (1 Nephi 13:26) prophetic and apostolic testimonies regarding the Savior, all of which served as models for him.

Indeed, the Book of Mormon prophets employ over 100 titles in their teachings of Christ, each of which helped Joseph understand the Savior’s divine role.1 By virtue of these teachings, Joseph Smith became intimately acquainted with ancient prophets, giving him insight into the divine purpose of his responsibilities.

The Book of Mormon illuminates the universality of Christ’s Atonement. The Savior’s holy sacrifice is not confined to the borders of the Holy Land of His day or even restricted to the apostolic world of the original Twelve. The Atonement encompasses all of God’s creations—past, present, and future. What an impression Jacob’s teaching of the “infinite atonement” (2 Nephi 9:7) must have made on the mind of young Joseph, especially in contrast to Christian teachings at the time.

The Book of Mormon also introduces the universality of the Resurrection and other doctrines relating to it. Discourses on this doctrine by Lehi, Jacob, King Benjamin, Abinadi, Alma, Amulek, Samuel the Lamanite, and Moroni are all rich sources of instruction.

During the translation of the Book of Mormon, the Prophet received additional valuable personal instruction concerning the redemptive and saving power of Christ. In 1828 Martin Harris persuaded Joseph to lend him the first 116 pages of the Book of Mormon manuscript. When Martin Harris lost those pages, the Prophet felt an enormous despair.2 His mother, Lucy Mack Smith, recorded that Joseph exclaimed: “Oh, my God! … All is lost! all is lost! What shall I do? I have sinned—it is I who tempted the wrath of God. … How shall I appear before the Lord? Of what rebuke am I not worthy from the angel of the Most High?”3

For well over a month the Lord left Joseph in this terrible condition of remorse.4 Then came relief and the apostolic lesson. The Lord told Joseph:

“The works, and the designs, and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated, neither can they come to naught. …

“For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him” (D&C 3:1, 4).

These words carefully describe what Joseph Smith had been experiencing. He had learned the exacting nature of the apostolic call and to whom the Apostle, at all cost, owes his loyalty. “Although men set at naught the counsels of God, and despise his words,” Joseph was told, “yet you should have been faithful” (D&C 3:7–8). Joseph Smith had lost access to the plates for a season and had been taught an invaluable lesson. Subsequently, the plates were returned, and his position as translator restored.

How critical were the lessons provided by the translation of the Book of Mormon as Joseph Smith grew in his apostolic calling! The Book of Mormon is the “keystone of our religion”5 because it contains so many prophetic testimonies of Christ and stands as a tangible witness of the Restoration.

Continuing Revelation and Scripture

After finishing the translation of the Book of Mormon in 1829 and organizing the Church in 1830, Joseph Smith had the opportunity to receive continuing apostolic education through the process of translating other scripture. This included three years of translating the Bible and, beginning in 1835, translating the book of Abraham. Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible expanded his understanding of the role of Old Testament prophets and New Testament Apostles. It also resulted in additional revelation, namely the book of Moses.

The book of Moses provided the Prophet with important knowledge about the Savior’s ministry, including His role in the Creation. “The Lord spake unto Moses, saying: … I am the Beginning and the End, the Almighty God; by mine Only Begotten I created these things” (Moses 2:1). Further, He said, “And worlds without number have I created; … and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten” (Moses 1:33).

The book of Moses clarified Christ’s relationship to the Father in the premortal existence and reinforced the Prophet’s understanding of the ascendant power of righteousness. One of the most beautiful of all the apostolic lessons that came to Joseph Smith in this revelation was the confirmation of God’s love. It was so different from the harsh, unforgiving, and judgmental personage so many believed God to be; the book of Moses reveals a God of infinite compassion. Enoch saw that the “God of heaven … wept” (Moses 7:28) over those who would not receive Him. Wishing to know how it was possible, Enoch was given an answer that has a familiar biblical feel to it: “I [have] given commandment, that they should love one another, and that they should choose me, their Father. … Wherefore should not the heavens weep, seeing these shall suffer?” (Moses 7:33, 37; see also Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 22:37–39).

Through the translation of the book of Moses, the Prophet also became more acquainted with the redeeming and saving power of the Savior. As the Lord said, this earth was created “by the word of my power” (Moses 1:32) for the purpose of bringing “to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). Many long years before the Savior taught Thomas and the Twelve that “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6), He revealed to Moses that “this is the plan of salvation unto all men, through the blood of mine Only Begotten, who shall come in the meridian of time” (Moses 6:62).

The First Vision in the grove, the translation of the Book of Mormon, the revision of the Bible, the revelation of the book of Moses, and the translation of the book of Abraham laid the basic foundation of the Church, largely through the rapidly expanding knowledge and testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith relating to Jesus Christ.

Revelations given to him and compiled in the Doctrine and Covenants contain a wealth of knowledge concerning the Savior. One could research the numerous topics and cross-references of the Topical Guide and Guide to the Scriptures referring to Jesus Christ and still not understand the breadth of information on the Savior that the Prophet Joseph Smith brought to the world. I am grateful to know that Jesus was “in the beginning with the Father” (D&C 93:21). I am grateful to know that He “suffered these things for [me], that [I] might not suffer if [I] would repent” (D&C 19:16).

My Testimony of What the Prophet Revealed

I am grateful for yet one other thing about the Savior’s ministry that stirs my soul deeply. From studying the promises of Malachi, Moroni’s initial visit with Joseph, the Savior’s words to the Nephites, and the visit of Elijah in the Kirtland Temple, I learn that God loves His children and has provided a way for each to return to Him. I know of no doctrine more just, no teaching that gives more hope than that of redemption of the dead. I am so grateful for the revelations that teach me that the Savior’s Atonement reaches to those who have lived, loved, served, and hoped for a better day yet never heard of Jesus or had the opportunity to embrace His gospel. This knowledge alone would be sufficient to convert me to the gospel if I knew nothing else at all. Here, at least for me, is the ultimate testimony of Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice.

What, then, can be said of the incomparable saving power of Christ? That which Joseph Smith learned in the Sacred Grove about the power of righteousness overcoming evil foreshadows the final scene. So reveals the Lord:

“I, having accomplished and finished the will of him whose I am, even the Father, concerning me—having done this that I might subdue all things unto myself—

“Retaining all power, even to the destroying of Satan and his works at the end of the world, and the last great day of judgment” (D&C 19:2–3).

Our own testimonies of the Savior are framed by the testimony and teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Is it any wonder then that the Prophet taught that “the fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”6

Joseph Smith’s apostolic testimony of the divine reality and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, as well as his knowledge of the redemptive and saving power of the Savior, can best be seen by the Prophet’s own beautiful, powerful, and succinct witness:

“And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

“For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—

“That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22–24).

How grateful I am for the apostolic call of Joseph Smith.

 

 

 

Notes

1. See Book of Mormon Reference Companion, ed. Dennis L. Largey (2003), 457–58.

2. See Lucy Mack Smith, History of Joseph Smith, ed. Preston Nibley (1958), 128–29.

3. History of Joseph Smith, 128, 129.

4. The 116 pages were lost in June 1828. In July Joseph Smith received what is now section 3 of the Doctrine and Covenants. In September the plates were returned to the Prophet. See the historical introductions to D&C 3; 10.

5. History of the Church, 4:461.

6. History of the Church, 3:30.

 

 

 

 

 

 


TOPICS: Breaking News; Other Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: braking; cult; heresy; inman; lds; lies; mormon; notbreakingnews; propaganda; religion
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To: T Minus Four; restornu
I thought the boys got some sort of “spiritual blood transfusions” of Levitical blood when they turned twelve so they could hold the priesthood.

God's gonna get around to that little problem at the same time He changes all the DNA and genetics to conform to the Book of Mormon. Just ask resty.

1,621 posted on 01/04/2011 4:14:31 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (("A Leftist assumption: Making money doesn't entitle you to it, but wanting money does.")
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To: TaraP

Personally I’m very thankful someone strong armed me into the body of Christ or I’d still be lost. I’d rather be strong armed into Heaven than loved into Hell any day of the week. But that’s just me.


1,622 posted on 01/04/2011 4:15:20 PM PST by conservativegramma
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To: caww

This is the kind of ministry for Christ and witnessing I believe Jesus Christ commanded..

A Great Witness for Christ who just passed away...

ELKTON, Maryland, January 4, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The pro-family movement is mourning the loss of a great advocate for authentic sexuality, as Courage founder Fr. John F. Harvey passed away December 27.

The priest, 92, died at Union Hospital in Elkton, Maryland; a funeral was celebrated on December 31 in Wilmington, Delaware.

Fr. Harvey founded the Courage apostolate in 1980 at the request of Cardinal Terrence Cooke, then-Archbishop of New York, and served as director until 2008. The ministry offers a spiritual support system to men and women struggling with same-sex attractions, and promotes chastity and the development of an integrated sexuality.

They now run over a 100 chapters in a dozen countries, and have been endorsed by the Vatican.

“For Fr. Harvey, homosexuality was not a cultural issue or a topic to be debated,” said Fr. Paul Check, Fr. Harvey’s successor at Courage. “It was a reality in the life of individual people, who came to the Church with the hope of finding some understanding, some maternal love and solicitude, some compassion, some mercy, and, of course, truth.”

“He understood very well the human condition in both its vulnerabilities and in its nobility,” he added.

Fr. Check called him a “remarkable” yet “undervalued” man and a “pioneer” in authentic pastoral care for homosexual persons. He said the late priest was characterized most by “fidelity to the Church, humility, cheerfulness, great generosity of heart.”

“No matter how much resistance or misunderstanding he encountered - which was a great deal over a long lifetime of dealing with a very controversial subject - he was always very charitable,” said Fr. Check.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/fr-john-harvey-priest-pioneer-for-pastoral-care-of-homosexuals-dies-at-92


1,623 posted on 01/04/2011 4:15:26 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP
As I said I do not believe in Strong Arm/Westboro tatics to bring people into the body of Christ....

Making accusations likening FReepers to the Westboro bunch doesn't go over well here. There are some former Freepers who learned that the hard way.

1,624 posted on 01/04/2011 4:18:14 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (("A Leftist assumption: Making money doesn't entitle you to it, but wanting money does.")
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To: conservativegramma

I tried once to Strong Arm my mother into the body of Christ, and all that did was cause great division, now I just love and pray for her, and let Christ take over and slowly I see some change in her........


1,625 posted on 01/04/2011 4:19:49 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: DelphiUser; Tennessee Nana; Gamecock; reaganaut
Governor Boggs, yep, the Guy who signed the extermination proclamation in Missouri, yeah him. When people in Utah start talking about who their ancestors are and which wagon train or whatever, I can usually stop the conversation cold by telling them My ancestor tried to EXTERMINATE all theirs... It makes for some interesting conversation, many never considered that opponents of the church had children too.

'Webster' DU is NOT!

DU, I believe if my memory serves me correctly, is referencing how MO's Gov. Boggs is an ancestor of his. [Correct me DU if I'm off-base here]

What most people miss -- including DU -- & especially OTHER Mormons trying to express why they have a persecution complex...is that they fail to "land" upon the correct definition of "extermination" in the 1835 time period.

Evidence (a): Webster's Dictionary of 1828 under "exterminate" has: "Literally, to drive from within the limits or borders. Hence, 1. To destroy utterly; to drive away...."
Source: MORMONS - PERSECUTED, PERSECUTOR OR BOTH?

Evidence (b): A Mormon author, George W. Givens, likewise pointed this out in his book 500 Little-Known Facts in Mormon History: Latter-day Saints have universally condemned the notorious Haun's Mill Massacre by a mom-militia shortly after Missouri Governor Boggs issued the infamous extermination order...a second look at the definition of the word "exterminate" as it was used in 1838, however, might cause us to take a second look at Governor Boggs as well. An American Dictionary of English Language, published in 1828, defines "exterminate" as "literally, to drive from within the limits or borders." (p. 26) Bonneville Books, 2004

Q What implications does this have?

A Simply put, beware of Mormon Victimology Mythology!

Mormon Victimology Mythology: Or How Mormon Historical Revisitionists often need a Paul Harvey type 'rest of the story' to hold them accountable for their strange gaps in their history!

Early Summer, 1838 -- July 4, in fact: Joseph Smith's "partner in cult mayhem is Sidney Rigdon.

Rigdon chose this date to give an "inflammatory" sermon re: independence of the church from mobocracy. Rigdon "warned of a war of EXTERMINATION between Mormons and their enemies if they were further threatened or harassed." (Leland H. Gentry, Church History, p. 343). Lds writer Max Parkin conceded that Rigdon's June 19 and July 4 messages "further incensed the public against expanding LDS influences." (Church History, p. 348).

If DU & other Mormons were given history questions on understanding the word "extermination" in 1830s America, they would flunk outright! Certainly, what we almost NEVER hear from contemporary Mormon posters is that apparently the first group to threaten the other with "extermination" in Missouri wasn't Gov. Boggs. 'Twas Lds leader Sidney Rigdon four months prior to that!

To add even more to the complexity of why people acted as they did in those Missouri 1830s, the Lds Church History; Selections from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism adds other reasons:
(a) Sidney Rigdon's June 19, 1838 "Salt Sermon" reinforced local Mormon opposition;
(b) Lds militia officer Sampson Avard initiated a vigilante group known as the Danites
(c) Gamecock posted an article a few years back with a few interesting excerpts:

Late October, 1838:

[Author had just cited Lds apostle Bruce McConkie]: McConkie's dramatic rhetoric fails to take into account the fact that the Haun's Mill massacre took place just one week after the battle of Crooked River. [Former BYU History professor] Quinn writes: "A generally unacknowledged dimension of both the EXTERMINATION ORDER and the Haun's Mill massacre, however, is that they resulted from Mormon actions in the Battle of Crooked River. Knowingly or not, MORMONS HAD ATTACKED STATE TROOPS, and this had a cascade effect… upon receiving news of the injuries and death of state troops at Crooked River, Governor Boggs immediately drafted his extermination order on 27 October 1838 because the MORMONS 'HAVE MADE WAR UPON THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE.' Worse, the killing of one Missourian and mutilation of another while he was defenseless at Crooked River led to the mad-dog revenge by Missourians in the slaughter at Haun's Mill" (Origins of Power, p.100).
Secondary source: Violence in Early Mormonism - Was It All Unjust Persecution?

From this same article posted by Gamecock: If violence against a certain faith were the only way to determine truth, then certainly the Mormons themselves would have to recognize that our Christian faith was just as viable as theirs. Can a Mormon, off the top of his head, recall when the last Mormon was killed just because he was a Mormon? Certainly we have heard of Mormons being tragically killed while serving missions, but these cases involve circumstances other than true martyrdom (robberies, car accidents, being mistaken for CIA agents, etc). On the other hand, it is not uncommon to hear of Christians around the world who are being killed because they refuse to denounce their belief that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. While martyrdom seems to be a thing of the past for the Mormons, it is a common occurrence among those who have placed their total trust in the Jesus of the Bible.” (Bill McKeever)

1,626 posted on 01/04/2011 4:21:12 PM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links Some Lds use)
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To: greyfoxx39

I have no idea what you are talking about.


1,627 posted on 01/04/2011 4:22:08 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: Graybeard58
See my response to that garbage HERE
1,628 posted on 01/04/2011 4:23:20 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (("A Leftist assumption: Making money doesn't entitle you to it, but wanting money does.")
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To: colorcountry
Have a day.

[snicker]

1,629 posted on 01/04/2011 4:27:38 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (("A Leftist assumption: Making money doesn't entitle you to it, but wanting money does.")
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To: greyfoxx39

I saw your response already, I made one too. Yours bears repeating, Here it is, unitalicized (I’m lazy today)

Strange...I can honestly say that the only FReepers I have ever seen question the donations made to keep this website running as though they require an accounting ...are mormons.

Mormons who are satisfied to donate 10% or more to the mormon church which as a policy for many years does NO accounting of the donations made to it.

Mormons, of which a number have commented on this website that they will stop donation if Jim doesn’t bow to their demands in the policies of FR.

Does anyone else see this as strange?


1,630 posted on 01/04/2011 4:27:38 PM PST by Graybeard58
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To: 1000 silverlings; T Minus Four; Godzilla
The Mormons have funny beliefs about the Jewish nation...

Got that right. To the Mormon, Jews are "Gentiles" -- and Mormondom is Mt. Zion!

1,631 posted on 01/04/2011 4:37:14 PM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links Some Lds use)
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To: TaraP

o/t but what is “integrated sexuality”?


1,632 posted on 01/04/2011 4:40:54 PM PST by bonfire
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To: Godzilla; T Minus Four
MORONI 10:32: “Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and
if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength,
then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.”

Other similar Book of Mormon examples:
* ...ye are saved by grace,
AFTER ALL YOU CAN DO." (2 Nephi 25:23) [Mormon, have you done ALL you can do? All YOU can do emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc.??? 'Cause this verse says free grace doesn't kick in UNTIL you do -- that's what the plain meaning of the words "AFTER all" equals.

* And: "...may God grant, in his great fulness, that men might be brought unto repentance and good works, that they might be restored unto grace for grace,
according to their WORKS." (Helaman 12:24)

1,633 posted on 01/04/2011 4:44:03 PM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links Some Lds use)
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To: caww
Thank you caww.

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

AKJV, 2 Corinthians 10:4

1,634 posted on 01/04/2011 4:54:01 PM PST by Syncro
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To: TaraP
do not believe in Strong Arm/Westboro tatics to bring people into the body of Christ....

There are more forms of "loving your neighbor" than sweet talk. If a child is bolting into the street and a sixteen wheeler is fast approaching...Most would use their "strong Arm" to yank him away from that road. Regardless if it hurt or not. That Tara, is also "Loving your neighbor".

You are apparently called into the 'Soft-side" of Christianity and that is your calling. But you still need to learn, as with loving your neighbor, some must be 'snatched' away from impending doom with "the Strong-Arm of Christianity"...and leave those who know how to do so to do just that. As you know "there is a time".

God loves to use people, we are the body He uses as He is Spirit. And he uses many various types of individuals at His choosing, some to go into Spiritual Warfare. These do not do so alone, but often times have the 'Strong-Arm' of "prayer warriors" who know how to pray in these matters.

I would not expect God would place a Muslim, new in the faith, on the front lines of battle. In fact I doubt many could go there, with the History of their former belief system. Nobody is saying new Christians should be on the front lines...in fact it is dangerous to send them there as others, who do know what they are doing, end up having to cow-tail to them...they get in the way.

Interesting you would bring up a Muslim though. They are well 'known to imitate Christianity' and are taught how to do so....learn the vocabulary...play the roll etc. But it is one thing to witness to those who do not know Christ....(many on this thread are acquainted with doing so)...it is quite another to go into enemy territory and rescue those trapped by a false and deceptive counterfeit religion or cult.... The terrain one must walk on is far from the same...as are the individuals who oppose those walking there...they protect those they have "kidnapped" and are well trained to do so.

So yes it does take a 'strong arm'..and a close walk with God to carry out His work. And that work can and does require a "Strong-Arm tactic...all in it's time.

1,635 posted on 01/04/2011 4:55:29 PM PST by caww
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To: greyfoxx39

TP isn’t as informed as they believe...or the game is on. I chose to ignore that...this time.


1,636 posted on 01/04/2011 4:58:24 PM PST by caww
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To: 1000 silverlings

***At some point in their lives, “a mormon prophet” tells them what tribe they belong to, they think they are direct descendents of Abraham.****

I once asked this to mormon missionaries. One said he thought he was from the tribe of DAN. I don’t remember what tribe the other one said he was from but he did claim to be a member of the 12 tribes.


1,637 posted on 01/04/2011 5:02:29 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I visited GEN TOMMY FRANKS Military Museum in HOBART, OKLAHOMA! Well worth it!)
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To: Graybeard58

and my answer to that was “Volunteers who appreciate how JR runs HIS site” or something like that


1,638 posted on 01/04/2011 5:07:04 PM PST by GeronL (How DARE you have an opinion!!)
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To: TaraP
It's nice you are full of wisdom and such a good witness to those you come incontact with.

Proverbs 27:2

Bible in Basic English

"Let another man give you praise, and not your mouth; one who is strange to you, and not your lips."

Funny how you castigate others (strong arming) for their style of witnessing to those lost in a false belief system

And you compare them to the demon infested Westboro Baptist Church people that are glad for the deaths of American soldiers (and spew their vitrolic invectives at funerals of Soldiers), say God hates fags, and generally spew hate with no desire to bring anyone to the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

That is despicable and you should be ashamed.

1,639 posted on 01/04/2011 5:10:05 PM PST by Syncro
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To: caww

Well I agree GOD can use all people for his purpose, after all he took Saul a rabid Pharisee and enemy of Christians and created Paul a Soldier for Christ in all respects...

It is just my opinion for me, Strong Arm tatic witnessing has never worked....

It is like that Ol’ saying you catch more flies with honey rather than vinegar.....


1,640 posted on 01/04/2011 5:23:35 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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