Replies

The only person who's opinion matters is Jesus Christ. I haven't seen him posting on this thread.

IMHO no church can guarantee you heaven, and no church can deny it either. Jesus looks on the heart and will make sure that all those he calls his are saved. It's one of the reasons Mormons perform the Biblical ordinance of baptism for the dead.

(Before anyone gets bent out of shape, if you accept the atonement of Jesus Christ, you accept the principle of proxy work)

. I haven't seen him posting on this thread.

You haven't been watching...

IMHO no church can guarantee you heaven, and no church can deny it either.

DU; you are so full of it that it's runnin' out yer EARS!

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

Dear Reader: what does it sound like to YOU?

(Before anyone gets bent out of shape, if you accept the atonement of Jesus Christ, you accept the principle of proxy work)

Your MORMON logic; AGAIN?

'proxy' work by HUMANs is yet another MORMON heresy.

Before anyone gets bent out of shape, if you accept the atonement of Jesus Christ, you accept the principle of proxy work

Well, isn't that special. That may be the most ignorant post I've seen in.....weeks.

if you accept the atonement of Jesus Christ, you accept the principle of proxy work

No one other than the Son of Man could provide atonement for fallen man.

Your statement, just like the Mormon doctrine it is based on, is complete nonsense.

And the opinion of Jesus Christ is codified in Scripture.

I agree with what you said with the exception of baptism for the dead: it doesn’t exist in Scripture.

I’m not familiar with the term “proxy work”, or its theological implications, but perhaps “propitiation” is better (Romans 3:25; 1 John 2:2).

I also agree with you in principle that a church cannot deny one entrance into heaven. But doctrine is important. Is the Jesus of the Bible, in fact the Jesus to whom you place your alliegance? That requires some investigation. If anyone would to suggest to me that I’m not following the correct Jesus, I want to hear their arguments: hell is too hot and eternity is too long to make light of it.