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Is Mormonism Christian?: A Comparison of Mormonism and Historic Christianity
Institute for Religious Research ^ | 1999

Posted on 12/26/2010 5:29:46 PM PST by Colofornian

Is Mormonism Christian? This may seem like a puzzling question to many Mormons as well as to some Christians. Mormons will note that they include the Bible among the four books which they recognize as Scripture, and that belief in Jesus Christ is central to their faith, as evidenced by their official name, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Furthermore, many Christians have heard the Mormon Tabernacle Choir sing Christian hymns and are favorably impressed with the Mormon commitment to high moral standards and strong families. Doesn’t it follow that Mormonism is Christian?

"To fairly and accurately resolve this question we need to carefully compare the basic doctrines of the Mormon religion with the basic doctrines of historic, biblical Christianity."

To fairly and accurately resolve this question we need to carefully compare the basic doctrines of the Mormon religion with the basic doctrines of historic, biblical Christianity. To represent the Mormon position we have relied on the following well-known Mormon doctrinal books, the first three of which are published by the Mormon Church: Gospel Principles (1997), Achieving a Celestial Marriage (1976), and A Study of the Articles of Faith (1979) by Mormon Apostle James E. Talmage, as well as Doctrines of Salvation (3 vols.) by the tenth Mormon President and prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Mormon Doctrine (2nd ed., 1979) by Mormon apostle Bruce R. McConkie and Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith.

1. Is There More Than One True God?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that there is only one True and Living God and apart from Him there are no other Gods (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:10,11; 44:6,8; 45:21,22; 46:9; Mark 12:29-34).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that there are many Gods (Book of Abraham 4:3ff), and that we can become gods and goddesses in the celestial kingdom (Doctrine and Covenants 132:19-20; Gospel Principles, p. 245; Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p. 130). It also teaches that those who achieve godhood will have spirit children who will worship and pray to them, just as we worship and pray to God the Father (Gospel Principles, p. 302).

2. Was God Once a Man Like Us?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that God is Spirit (John 4:24; 1 Timothy 6:15,16), He is not a man (Numbers 23:19; Hosea 11:9; Romans 1:22, 23), and has always (eternally) existed as God — all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere present (Psalm 90:2; 139:7-10; Isaiah 40:28; Luke 1:37).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that God the Father was once a man like us who progressed to become a God and has a body of flesh and bone (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22; "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!" from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-347; Gospel Principles, p. 9; Articles of Faith, p. 430; Mormon Doctrine, p. 321). Indeed, the Mormon Church teaches that God himself has a father, and a grandfather, ad infinitum (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373; Mormon Doctrine, p. 577).

3. Are Jesus and Satan Spirit Brothers?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that Jesus is the unique Son of God; he has always existed as God, and is co-eternal and co-equal with the Father (John 1:1, 14; 10:30; 14:9; Colossians 2:9). While never less than God, at the appointed time He laid aside the glory He shared with the Father (John 17:4, 5; Philippians 2:6-11) and was made flesh for our salvation; His incarnation was accomplished through being conceived supernaturally by the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin (Matthew 1:18-23; Luke 1:34-35).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Jesus Christ is our elder brother who progressed to godhood, having first been procreated as a spirit child by Heavenly Father and a heavenly mother; He was later conceived physically through intercourse between Heavenly Father and the virgin Mary (D&C 93:21; Journal of Discourses, 1:50-51; Gospel Principles, p. 11-13; Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p. 129; Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 546-547; 742; Ezra Taft Benson, Come unto Christ, p. 4; Robert L. Millet, The Mormon Faith: Understanding Restored Christianity, p. 31). Mormon doctrine affirms that Jesus, all angels, Lucifer, all demons, and all human beings are originally spirit brothers and sisters (Abraham 3:22-27; Moses 4:1-2; Gospel Principles, pp. 17-18; Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).

4. Is God a Trinity?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost are not separate Gods or separate beings, but are distinct Persons within the one Triune Godhead. Throughout the New Testament the Son and the Holy Spirit, as well as the Father are separately identified as and act as God (Son: Mark 2:5-12; John 20:28; Philippians 2:10,11; Holy Spirit: Acts 5:3,4; 2 Corinthians 3:17,18; 13:14); yet at the same time the Bible teaches that these three are only one God (see point 1).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate Gods (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 576-577), and that the Son and Holy Ghost are the literal offspring of Heavenly Father and a celestial wife (Joseph Fielding McConkie, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 2, p. 649).

5. Was The Sin Of Adam and Eve a Great Evil Or a Great Blessing?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the disobedience of our first parents Adam and Eve was a great evil. Through their fall sin entered the world, bringing all human beings under condemnation and death. Thus we are born with a sinful nature, and will be judged for the sins we commit as individuals. (Ezekiel 18:1-20; Romans 5:12-21).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Adam’s sin was "a necessary step in the plan of life and a great blessing to all of us" (Gospel Principles, p. 33; Book of Mormon — 2 Nephi 2:25; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 114-115).

6. Can We Make Ourselves Worthy Before God?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that apart from the saving work of Jesus Christ on the cross we are spiritually "dead in trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1,5) and are powerless to save ourselves. By grace alone, apart from self-righteous works, God forgives our sins and makes us worthy to live in His presence (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5-6). Our part is only to cling to Christ in heartfelt faith. (However, it is certainly true that without the evidence of changed conduct, a person’s testimony of faith in Christ must be questioned; salvation by grace alone through faith, does not mean we can live as we please — Romans 6:1-4).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that eternal life in the presence of God (which it terms "exaltation in the celestial kingdom") must be earned through obedience to all the commands of the Mormon Church, including exclusive Mormon temple rituals. Works are a requirement for salvation (entrance into the "celestial kingdom") — Gospel Principles, p. 303-304; Pearl of Great Price — Third Article of Faith; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 339, 671; Book of Mormon — 2 Nephi 25:23).

7. Does Christ's Atoning Death Benefit Those Who Reject Him?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the purpose of the atoning work of Christ on the cross was to provide the complete solution for humankind’s sin problem. However, those who reject God’s grace in this life will have no part in this salvation but are under the judgment of God for eternity (John 3:36; Hebrews 9:27; 1 John 5:11-12).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that the purpose of the atonement was to bring resurrection and immortality to all people, regardless of whether they receive Christ by faith. Christ’s atonement is only a partial basis for worthiness and eternal life, which also requires obedience to all the commands of the Mormon church, including exclusive Mormon temple rituals (Gospel Principles, pp. 74-75; Mormon Doctrine, p. 669).

8. Is The Bible The Unique and Final Word of God?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the Bible is the unique, final and infallible Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 1:1,2; 2 Peter 1:21) and that it will stand forever (1 Peter 1:23-25). God’s providential preservation of the text of the Bible was marvelously illustrated in the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that the Bible has been corrupted, is missing many "plain and precious parts" and does not contain the fullness of the Gospel (Book of Mormon — 1 Nephi 13:26-29; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, pp. 190-191).

9. Did The Early Church Fall Into Total Apostasy?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the true Church was divinely established by Jesus and could never and will never disappear from the earth (Matthew 16:18; John 15:16; 17:11). Christians acknowledge that there have been times of corruption and apostasy within the Church, but believe there has always been a remnant that held fast to the biblical essentials.

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that there was a great and total apostasy of the Church as established by Jesus Christ; this state of apostasy "still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" of the Mormon Church (Gospel Principles, pp. 105-106; Mormon Doctrine, p. 44).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion: The above points in italics constitute the common gospel believed by all orthodox Christians through the ages regardless of denominational labels. On the other hand, some new religions such as Mormonism claim to be Christian, but accept as Scripture writings outside of the Bible, teach doctrines that contradict the Bible, and hold to beliefs completely foreign to the teachings of Jesus and His apostles.

Mormons share with orthodox Christians some important moral precepts from the Bible. However, the above points are examples of the many fundamental and irreconcilable differences between historic, biblical Christianity and Mormonism. While these differences do not keep us from being friendly with Mormons, we cannot consider them brothers and sisters in Christ. The Bible specifically warns of false prophets who will teach "another gospel" centered around "another Jesus," and witnessed to by "another spirit" (2 Corinthians 11:4,13-15; Galatians 1:6-9). Based on the evidence presented above, we believe Mormonism represents just such a counterfeit gospel.

It has been pointed out that if one claimed to be a Mormon but denied all the basic tenets of Mormonism — that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, that the Book of Mormon is true and divinely inspired, that god was once a man who progressed to godhood through keeping the laws and ordinances of the Mormon Church, and that the Mormon Church was divinely established — the Mormon Church would reject such a person’s claim to being a Latter-day Saint. One cannot fairly call oneself a Mormon if one does not believe the fundamental doctrines taught by the Mormon Church. By the same token, if the Mormon Church does not hold to even the basic biblical truths believed by the greater Christian community down through the ages, how can Christians reasonably be expected to accept Mormonism as authentic Christianity?

If the Mormon Church believes it is the only true Christian Church, it should not attempt to publicly present itself as a part of a broader Christian community. Instead it should tell the world openly that those who claim to be orthodox Christians are not really Christians at all, and that the Mormon Church is the only true Christian Church. This in fact is what it teaches privately, but not publicly.

Statements of 5 Christian Denominations on Mormonism

Christian churches teach belief in God as an eternal, self-existent, immortal being, unfettered by corporeal limitations and unchanging in both character and nature. In recent years, several Christian denominations have made studies of Mormon teaching and come to the conclusion that there are irreconcilable differences between LDS doctrine and Christian beliefs based on the Bible.

Statement of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod

Statement of the Presbyterian Church (USA)

Statement of the Roman Catholic Church

Statement of the Southern Baptist Convention

Statement of the United Methodist Church

..


TOPICS: Apologetics; Other Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: christian; inman; lds; mormon; mormonism
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To: aMorePerfectUnion; Paragon Defender; DelphiUser

LOL if is because of all the terrible PR from the antis that they check it out for themselves.

too late aMorePerfectUnion

You are too funny....


341 posted on 12/27/2010 8:24:15 PM PST by restornu
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To: delacoert; JAKraig
The biggest [example of misinformation or falsehood given in this thread] is saying they [adherents of Mormonism] worship a different Christ and God.

Incredible del - that mormons would make such a statement. Especially in light of this -

The LDS Church News reported: "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness [sic] of Times'" (June 20, 1998, .

Their own prophet stated otherwise. Now just WHO is spreading 'misinformation'

342 posted on 12/27/2010 8:39:23 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Salvavida

“proxy work” refers to the LDS practice of baptism, confirmation, marriage, washing and anointings, and endowments (initiation ritual) by living people on behalf of the dead. That is what takes place in their temples.

To compare THAT to the sacrifice of our Lord and Savior is blasphemy of the highest order.


343 posted on 12/27/2010 9:14:46 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: restornu

Gosh, Resty, what size millstone do you suppose you’re earning?


344 posted on 12/27/2010 9:40:24 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: maine-iac7
This is an "open" Religion Forum thread. Posters may argue for or against beliefs. They may condemn dieties, religious authorities, beliefs, etc.

Thick skin is required for the town square format of "open" Religion Forum threads.

Thin skinned posters should IGNORE "open" RF threads altogether and instead post to "caucus" "ecumenical" "prayer" or "devotional" threads.

345 posted on 12/27/2010 9:44:52 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: delacoert
The Mormon Jesus was a preexisting spirit who was exalted, just as Mormon followers hope to be exalted someday.

So JAK, the Mormon Jesus is not the same Jesus Christ who Christians worship and adore.

______________________________________________________

You should come and interview with my wife, you would find how wrong you are. The mormons I have met are well versed in the Bible and their own scriptures. They are not so well versed in the early church fathers since it is their belief that with the death of the apostles that the authority of the Church perished.

They do believe in the very same Christ as you say you believe in, to say they don't is slander. They may say He has purple hair or even green toenail polish but it is the same Christ. Yes they believe things ABOUT Him that you do not, but I probably believe things about Him that the Catholics do not and vice-versa, that doesn't mean it isn't the same Christ. To the Catholics and the Mormons my beliefs about Christ may be wrong and doom me to hell but I don't hold those same rigid beliefs like they and apparently you do.

Jesus Christ is The Lord, scripture teaches and I believe you can only know it and say it by the power of the Holy Ghost. The mormons say it a lot. I personally believe that the God of Heaven loves the Mormons and the Catholics and even me, I might wonder a little about you however:)

All religions teach that they are right. The Catholics excommunicated the protestants centuries ago but they still get along. The Pope may think protestants are misguided but I bet he still prays for them. The missionaries have explained to me that with the death of the last of the apostles that the authority of the Church was no longer on earth so that the churches were an abomination. I have tried to tell them that whenever two or three are gathered in His name that there he will be but they say while that is true those two or three will not have the authority to act for God including baptizing people which they say must be done. Perhaps it is misguided but it is done in love.

If they have 50,000 missionaries out preaching their brand of (excuse me if this makes your head explode), Christianity how can they be faulted? How many missionaries does your church have? How much money do they make, how can they get paid and be called missionaries? Would they still be missionaries if they didn't get paid anything? Sure I know the laborer is worthy of his hire but I don't think that detracts from the dedication of mormon missionaries.

As far as Polygamy not being practiced by early Christians, hogwash. It was common for Jews to have 4 or 5 wives up until the year 1000. for the first two or three hundred years of Christian history most converts came from Jews, you think they didn't bring their wives with them. One of the reasons the early church fathers wrote so much about polygamy was because they dissagreed with what they saw, namely the practice of polygamy.

I would really enjoy a meaningful good natured discussion some time but that is not what I have found here, I think what I have found is several Mormon haters. I think that is a shame, but you are entitled to your own prejudices.

Moderator, while I have participated in this discussion I have not enjoyed it. I would rather you keep these threads in the religious section where we could more readily avoid the harsh rants that have been going on here.

The Free Republic is a wonderful place for me except when I see these mormon haters get started. It sickens me every time Mitt Romney gets in the news because I know I will see the same mormon haters get on here and start their rants.

If the mormon haters here think they will save me from the mormons by their rants they are mistaken. I will do what I think is right, if I ever knew what any of your religious professions were I would never be inclined to listen to them because of your example. My wife and her friends in her church however are very good company. We can talk politics and be on the same wavelength, we can talk guns and be on the same wavelength. On occasion we talk about religion, we probably have a lot more in common than not.

Like I said before all your rants, which I dutifully read, I still like them (the mormons) and hold no malice to their Christian religious ideals.

Have a nice nights sleep.

346 posted on 12/27/2010 9:47:21 PM PST by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: DelphiUser; T Minus Four; MHGinTN
The "perhaps" in post 157 innoculated the statement from being "mind reading." However, it is still "making it personal" because it was making the thread about an individual Freeper.

Post 168 is "making it personal" for the same reason. Also, the "you are duplicitous" is mind reading and therefore "making it personal."

And in post 191, the "you know the JOD" is also mind reading and therefore, "making it personal."

All of you - discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

347 posted on 12/27/2010 9:50:56 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator

Thanks for the tip -

Religion shouldn’t really be ‘argued’ but ‘discussed’

there is a vast difference.

Too many people presume to speak for God.
times change, people don’t.

Makes me wonder sometimes why God doesn’t just shrug off earth, stamping it with a large “FAIL”


348 posted on 12/27/2010 9:53:33 PM PST by maine-iac7
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To: maine-iac7
Religion shouldn’t really be ‘argued’ but ‘discussed’

For discussion, stay on Religion Forum threads labeled "ecumenical." Ignore the "open" RF threads.
349 posted on 12/27/2010 9:55:58 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: JAKraig
Ahh, "hate". How convenient.

The mormons claims that ALL of Christianity fell into apostasy is an allegation against Christ Himself; Jesus said the gates of hell shall not prevail against His church. How then, could there ever arise a need to “restore” Christ’s church? Was Christ a liar? Was He unprophetic in His statement?

"People who say otherwise are wrong or liars."

Well now, thanks for generalizing. As an ex-mo, married to a temple working mormon, I'll have to disagree with much of what you posited. I do find them to be good people generally, I'm married to one in fact and there are, like all groups, those one would not find agreeable. But, we're not talking about them, we're talking about the false religion called mormonism.

In discussing the actual tenets, doctrine and theology of mormonism, which many here prefer to do, you'll find that mormonism is not in the least bit Biblical Christianity.

It puts on some nice lipstick, but underneath, it isn't Biblical. Their prophets have taught that because of the way they view their god, they do not worship the same Christ.

Plain and simple. So, I'll just go back to being wrong and a liar at the same time.

You're not the first, and you won't be the last to attempt to impugn my character in order to marginalize the information and insight I have regarding the lie that is mormonism.

With a little research, you'd find that temple work is not outlined in any of their scripture, baptism for the dead is a pagan ritual that mormons have misinterpreted to mean they are to do it. Their christ is a murdering, vengeful god, not a god of peace and forgiveness.

In the Book of Mormon, Jesus brought death and destruction with him to the Cross. In 3 Nephi, Chapters 8 and 9, it details the events testifying of Christ's crucifixion. It describes the desolation of the great city of Zarahemla by fire, and the city of Moroni "did sink into the sea and the inhabitants thereof were drowned... the earth was carried up upon the city of Mornihah...there was great and terrible destruction in the land southward......terrible destruction in the land northward....the highways were broken up....many great and noble cities were sunk and many burned and many shaken till the buildings thereof had fallen to the earth.....all these great and terrible things were done in the space of three hours."

Here are links to the Official LdS BoM chapters that detail these events:

3 Nephi 8

3 Nephi 9

3 Nephi, Chapter 9, tells of further wrath as the Lord also destroyed the cities and inhabitants of Gigal, Onihah, Mocum, Jerusalem, Gadiandi, Gadiomnah, Jacob, Gimgimmo, Jacobugath, Laman, Josh, Gad, and Kishkumen. (a total of 16 major cities) Who did all this killing to testify of our Lord's atonement on Calvary?

3 Nephi 9:15 reveals the murderer of approximately 2 million innocent inhabitants of the Book of Mormon lands, "Behold, I am Jesus Christ the son of God. I created the heavens and the earth and all things that in them are." He adds, (in verse 21), "behold, I have come unto the world to bring redemption unto the world to save the world from sin." I guess the easiest way was to kill almost every living creature; at least the vast majority of that portion of his "other sheep have I." This Jesus was a god of wrath, exercising some form of Old Testament Judgment by the one who was supposed to be the end of the law.

Source: Saints Alive

Sorry, can't have it both ways. Upon His return from the dead, the Biblical Christ was a comforting and consoling figure. Not a vengeful figure.

“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.”

Winston Churchill

So, because we criticize and call attention to the heresies of mormonism, you malign us as haters, liars and we're wrong. It couldn't possibly be that we're correct. No, not that at all.

350 posted on 12/28/2010 12:31:11 AM PST by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
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To: maine-iac7
"Can you or anyone else name ONE TIME in the history of FR that any Mormon has posted - ONCE, let alone with the regularity of these LDS bashing ones - a thread meant for the denigration/refutation of ANY other religion?"

Mormons don't need a thread to bash Christianity, it's in their books printed by their liar in chief, Joseph Smith.

ALL of Christianity, remember? Mormons to this day teach that ALL other faiths and religions are incorrect. That there is even one they reserved the special title "Whore of Babylon" for.

Mormons make a liar out of Christ. Christ Himself said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church, yet the mormons make the claim they RESTORED Christianity.

Where'd it go if Christ Himself said it would never leave?

351 posted on 12/28/2010 12:47:38 AM PST by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
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To: restornu
Those that have ears hear their Master Voice!

Just wait 'til they hear the REST of the story!!

 
 



"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."
---Joseph Knight's journal.


"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.
(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),
"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,
as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,
and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."


"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"
reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881
in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:
 
 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,
Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12
June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)


Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:
 
"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"
("A New Witness for Christ in America,"
Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)


"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."
---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4RPpWfvVNs&feature=related

352 posted on 12/28/2010 5:16:54 AM PST by Elsie
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To: restornu
LOL if is because of all the terrible PR from the antis that they check it out for themselves.


353 posted on 12/28/2010 5:18:53 AM PST by Elsie
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To: JAKraig
Moderator, while I have participated in this discussion I have not enjoyed it. I would rather you keep these threads in the religious section where we could more readily avoid the harsh rants that have been going on here.

HUH??

In the Religion forum, on a thread titled Is Mormonism Christian?: A Comparison of Mormonism and Historic Christianity...

354 posted on 12/28/2010 5:20:24 AM PST by Elsie
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To: maine-iac7
Makes me wonder sometimes why God doesn’t just shrug off earth, stamping it with a large “FAIL”

He WILL!

Haven't you read the Book?

355 posted on 12/28/2010 6:03:18 AM PST by Elsie
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To: Elsie

I heard the rest of your distorted story and the Spirit of the Lord showed me the correct version!

something the slothful will never know!


356 posted on 12/28/2010 6:36:32 AM PST by restornu
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To: Colofornian

That’s a lot of words and spinning, just to avoid answering a question.


357 posted on 12/28/2010 7:28:08 AM PST by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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To: SoConPubbie

I don’t consider someone of the Mormon faith as a sinner, but if you do, go for it.

Your answer certainly helped in my understanding of why there is such animosity, thanks.


358 posted on 12/28/2010 7:34:16 AM PST by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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To: DelphiUser

Thanks for a civil answer.


359 posted on 12/28/2010 7:35:26 AM PST by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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To: JAKraig; Godzilla; Colofornian; greyfoxx39; T Minus Four; Tennessee Nana; Elsie; SZonian; ...
Scurrilous accusation tells us all we need to know about a desire for ecumenicalism at any cost. Calling those who oppose MormonISM 'haters' also indicates the spirit which has one bound. It is a favorite ploy/whine of the mormonism apologists when their heretical beliefs and blasphemous rituals are exposed to whine 'you hate Mormons'.

The father of lies doesn't want the truth about Momronism exposed, so he recruits mouthpieces to sling scurrilous accusations and irrational assertions at anyone daring to expose the heresies and blasphemies.

Here's an eample of blasphemy at the heart of MormonISM: If one is a Christian who has studied the Bible even a little bit, it is known that the High Priest was a singular office, only one at a time to serve in the Tabernacle. If you learn anything about the rancid meat of Mormonism you find that religion has a melchisedec priesthood which they claim was handed to them by Jesus! Read the following verses from Hebrews and see if you believe Jesus would ‘hand’ this high holy position to nearly every Tom, Dick, and Harry Reid in Mormonism:

Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Hebrews 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

Hebrews 5:8-10 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 6:18-20 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 7:23- 28 And they truly were many priests [one at a time], because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Chapter nine of Hebrews shows particulars. In chapters six and seven Paul explains the Priestly authority now held by Jesus, beyond the authority of the King of Salem who was the Melchisedec Priest to whom Abraham paid tithes! Mormonism claims of a melchisedec priesthood are a blasphemy against the very nature of the Authority Jesus holds. As Glenn Beck says, don’t take my word for it, go read the Bible book of Hebrews. To openly oppose blasphemies and heresies of those claimsing to be ‘restored Christianity’ might upset some delicate milk-fed Christians, but it is the right thing to do. Making scurrilous assertions at people opposing the blasphemesies in Mormonism isn’t going to shut us up, so enjoy your day.

360 posted on 12/28/2010 8:22:40 AM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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