Posted on 12/26/2010 5:29:46 PM PST by Colofornian
LOL if is because of all the terrible PR from the antis that they check it out for themselves.
too late aMorePerfectUnion
You are too funny....
Incredible del - that mormons would make such a statement. Especially in light of this -
The LDS Church News reported: "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness [sic] of Times'" (June 20, 1998, .
Their own prophet stated otherwise. Now just WHO is spreading 'misinformation'
“proxy work” refers to the LDS practice of baptism, confirmation, marriage, washing and anointings, and endowments (initiation ritual) by living people on behalf of the dead. That is what takes place in their temples.
To compare THAT to the sacrifice of our Lord and Savior is blasphemy of the highest order.
Gosh, Resty, what size millstone do you suppose you’re earning?
Thick skin is required for the town square format of "open" Religion Forum threads.
Thin skinned posters should IGNORE "open" RF threads altogether and instead post to "caucus" "ecumenical" "prayer" or "devotional" threads.
So JAK, the Mormon Jesus is not the same Jesus Christ who Christians worship and adore.
______________________________________________________
You should come and interview with my wife, you would find how wrong you are. The mormons I have met are well versed in the Bible and their own scriptures. They are not so well versed in the early church fathers since it is their belief that with the death of the apostles that the authority of the Church perished.
They do believe in the very same Christ as you say you believe in, to say they don't is slander. They may say He has purple hair or even green toenail polish but it is the same Christ. Yes they believe things ABOUT Him that you do not, but I probably believe things about Him that the Catholics do not and vice-versa, that doesn't mean it isn't the same Christ. To the Catholics and the Mormons my beliefs about Christ may be wrong and doom me to hell but I don't hold those same rigid beliefs like they and apparently you do.
Jesus Christ is The Lord, scripture teaches and I believe you can only know it and say it by the power of the Holy Ghost. The mormons say it a lot. I personally believe that the God of Heaven loves the Mormons and the Catholics and even me, I might wonder a little about you however:)
All religions teach that they are right. The Catholics excommunicated the protestants centuries ago but they still get along. The Pope may think protestants are misguided but I bet he still prays for them. The missionaries have explained to me that with the death of the last of the apostles that the authority of the Church was no longer on earth so that the churches were an abomination. I have tried to tell them that whenever two or three are gathered in His name that there he will be but they say while that is true those two or three will not have the authority to act for God including baptizing people which they say must be done. Perhaps it is misguided but it is done in love.
If they have 50,000 missionaries out preaching their brand of (excuse me if this makes your head explode), Christianity how can they be faulted? How many missionaries does your church have? How much money do they make, how can they get paid and be called missionaries? Would they still be missionaries if they didn't get paid anything? Sure I know the laborer is worthy of his hire but I don't think that detracts from the dedication of mormon missionaries.
As far as Polygamy not being practiced by early Christians, hogwash. It was common for Jews to have 4 or 5 wives up until the year 1000. for the first two or three hundred years of Christian history most converts came from Jews, you think they didn't bring their wives with them. One of the reasons the early church fathers wrote so much about polygamy was because they dissagreed with what they saw, namely the practice of polygamy.
I would really enjoy a meaningful good natured discussion some time but that is not what I have found here, I think what I have found is several Mormon haters. I think that is a shame, but you are entitled to your own prejudices.
Moderator, while I have participated in this discussion I have not enjoyed it. I would rather you keep these threads in the religious section where we could more readily avoid the harsh rants that have been going on here.
The Free Republic is a wonderful place for me except when I see these mormon haters get started. It sickens me every time Mitt Romney gets in the news because I know I will see the same mormon haters get on here and start their rants.
If the mormon haters here think they will save me from the mormons by their rants they are mistaken. I will do what I think is right, if I ever knew what any of your religious professions were I would never be inclined to listen to them because of your example. My wife and her friends in her church however are very good company. We can talk politics and be on the same wavelength, we can talk guns and be on the same wavelength. On occasion we talk about religion, we probably have a lot more in common than not.
Like I said before all your rants, which I dutifully read, I still like them (the mormons) and hold no malice to their Christian religious ideals.
Have a nice nights sleep.
Post 168 is "making it personal" for the same reason. Also, the "you are duplicitous" is mind reading and therefore "making it personal."
And in post 191, the "you know the JOD" is also mind reading and therefore, "making it personal."
All of you - discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Thanks for the tip -
Religion shouldn’t really be ‘argued’ but ‘discussed’
there is a vast difference.
Too many people presume to speak for God.
times change, people don’t.
Makes me wonder sometimes why God doesn’t just shrug off earth, stamping it with a large “FAIL”
The mormons claims that ALL of Christianity fell into apostasy is an allegation against Christ Himself; Jesus said the gates of hell shall not prevail against His church. How then, could there ever arise a need to “restore” Christ’s church? Was Christ a liar? Was He unprophetic in His statement?
"People who say otherwise are wrong or liars."
Well now, thanks for generalizing. As an ex-mo, married to a temple working mormon, I'll have to disagree with much of what you posited. I do find them to be good people generally, I'm married to one in fact and there are, like all groups, those one would not find agreeable. But, we're not talking about them, we're talking about the false religion called mormonism.
In discussing the actual tenets, doctrine and theology of mormonism, which many here prefer to do, you'll find that mormonism is not in the least bit Biblical Christianity.
It puts on some nice lipstick, but underneath, it isn't Biblical. Their prophets have taught that because of the way they view their god, they do not worship the same Christ.
Plain and simple. So, I'll just go back to being wrong and a liar at the same time.
You're not the first, and you won't be the last to attempt to impugn my character in order to marginalize the information and insight I have regarding the lie that is mormonism.
With a little research, you'd find that temple work is not outlined in any of their scripture, baptism for the dead is a pagan ritual that mormons have misinterpreted to mean they are to do it. Their christ is a murdering, vengeful god, not a god of peace and forgiveness.
In the Book of Mormon, Jesus brought death and destruction with him to the Cross. In 3 Nephi, Chapters 8 and 9, it details the events testifying of Christ's crucifixion. It describes the desolation of the great city of Zarahemla by fire, and the city of Moroni "did sink into the sea and the inhabitants thereof were drowned... the earth was carried up upon the city of Mornihah...there was great and terrible destruction in the land southward......terrible destruction in the land northward....the highways were broken up....many great and noble cities were sunk and many burned and many shaken till the buildings thereof had fallen to the earth.....all these great and terrible things were done in the space of three hours."
Here are links to the Official LdS BoM chapters that detail these events:
3 Nephi, Chapter 9, tells of further wrath as the Lord also destroyed the cities and inhabitants of Gigal, Onihah, Mocum, Jerusalem, Gadiandi, Gadiomnah, Jacob, Gimgimmo, Jacobugath, Laman, Josh, Gad, and Kishkumen. (a total of 16 major cities) Who did all this killing to testify of our Lord's atonement on Calvary?
3 Nephi 9:15 reveals the murderer of approximately 2 million innocent inhabitants of the Book of Mormon lands, "Behold, I am Jesus Christ the son of God. I created the heavens and the earth and all things that in them are." He adds, (in verse 21), "behold, I have come unto the world to bring redemption unto the world to save the world from sin." I guess the easiest way was to kill almost every living creature; at least the vast majority of that portion of his "other sheep have I." This Jesus was a god of wrath, exercising some form of Old Testament Judgment by the one who was supposed to be the end of the law.
Source: Saints Alive
Sorry, can't have it both ways. Upon His return from the dead, the Biblical Christ was a comforting and consoling figure. Not a vengeful figure.
“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.”
Winston Churchill
So, because we criticize and call attention to the heresies of mormonism, you malign us as haters, liars and we're wrong. It couldn't possibly be that we're correct. No, not that at all.
Mormons don't need a thread to bash Christianity, it's in their books printed by their liar in chief, Joseph Smith.
ALL of Christianity, remember? Mormons to this day teach that ALL other faiths and religions are incorrect. That there is even one they reserved the special title "Whore of Babylon" for.
Mormons make a liar out of Christ. Christ Himself said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church, yet the mormons make the claim they RESTORED Christianity.
Where'd it go if Christ Himself said it would never leave?
Just wait 'til they hear the REST of the story!!
"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."---Joseph Knight's journal.
"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.
"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.
In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:
"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."
"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)
In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:"When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12June 15, 1879, pp. 190-91.)
Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"("A New Witness for Christ in America,"Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)
"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.
HUH??
In the Religion forum, on a thread titled Is Mormonism Christian?: A Comparison of Mormonism and Historic Christianity...
He WILL!
Haven't you read the Book?
I heard the rest of your distorted story and the Spirit of the Lord showed me the correct version!
something the slothful will never know!
That’s a lot of words and spinning, just to avoid answering a question.
I don’t consider someone of the Mormon faith as a sinner, but if you do, go for it.
Your answer certainly helped in my understanding of why there is such animosity, thanks.
Thanks for a civil answer.
The father of lies doesn't want the truth about Momronism exposed, so he recruits mouthpieces to sling scurrilous accusations and irrational assertions at anyone daring to expose the heresies and blasphemies.
Here's an eample of blasphemy at the heart of MormonISM: If one is a Christian who has studied the Bible even a little bit, it is known that the High Priest was a singular office, only one at a time to serve in the Tabernacle. If you learn anything about the rancid meat of Mormonism you find that religion has a melchisedec priesthood which they claim was handed to them by Jesus! Read the following verses from Hebrews and see if you believe Jesus would ‘hand’ this high holy position to nearly every Tom, Dick, and Harry Reid in Mormonism:
Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.Hebrews 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
Hebrews 5:8-10 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 6:18-20 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 7:23- 28 And they truly were many priests [one at a time], because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
Chapter nine of Hebrews shows particulars. In chapters six and seven Paul explains the Priestly authority now held by Jesus, beyond the authority of the King of Salem who was the Melchisedec Priest to whom Abraham paid tithes! Mormonism claims of a melchisedec priesthood are a blasphemy against the very nature of the Authority Jesus holds. As Glenn Beck says, don’t take my word for it, go read the Bible book of Hebrews. To openly oppose blasphemies and heresies of those claimsing to be ‘restored Christianity’ might upset some delicate milk-fed Christians, but it is the right thing to do. Making scurrilous assertions at people opposing the blasphemesies in Mormonism isn’t going to shut us up, so enjoy your day.
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