"Some people back then mistakenly said that Jesus had a demon but He was actually doing the work of God. People are making the same mistake these days when it comes to how they view Latter-day Saints."
Posted on 12/26/2010 5:29:46 PM PST by Colofornian
Is Mormonism Christian? This may seem like a puzzling question to many Mormons as well as to some Christians. Mormons will note that they include the Bible among the four books which they recognize as Scripture, and that belief in Jesus Christ is central to their faith, as evidenced by their official name, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Furthermore, many Christians have heard the Mormon Tabernacle Choir sing Christian hymns and are favorably impressed with the Mormon commitment to high moral standards and strong families. Doesn’t it follow that Mormonism is Christian?
"To fairly and accurately resolve this question we need to carefully compare the basic doctrines of the Mormon religion with the basic doctrines of historic, biblical Christianity."
To fairly and accurately resolve this question we need to carefully compare the basic doctrines of the Mormon religion with the basic doctrines of historic, biblical Christianity. To represent the Mormon position we have relied on the following well-known Mormon doctrinal books, the first three of which are published by the Mormon Church: Gospel Principles (1997), Achieving a Celestial Marriage (1976), and A Study of the Articles of Faith (1979) by Mormon Apostle James E. Talmage, as well as Doctrines of Salvation (3 vols.) by the tenth Mormon President and prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Mormon Doctrine (2nd ed., 1979) by Mormon apostle Bruce R. McConkie and Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith.
1. Is There More Than One True God?
The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that there is only one True and Living God and apart from Him there are no other Gods (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:10,11; 44:6,8; 45:21,22; 46:9; Mark 12:29-34).
By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that there are many Gods (Book of Abraham 4:3ff), and that we can become gods and goddesses in the celestial kingdom (Doctrine and Covenants 132:19-20; Gospel Principles, p. 245; Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p. 130). It also teaches that those who achieve godhood will have spirit children who will worship and pray to them, just as we worship and pray to God the Father (Gospel Principles, p. 302).
2. Was God Once a Man Like Us?
The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that God is Spirit (John 4:24; 1 Timothy 6:15,16), He is not a man (Numbers 23:19; Hosea 11:9; Romans 1:22, 23), and has always (eternally) existed as God — all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere present (Psalm 90:2; 139:7-10; Isaiah 40:28; Luke 1:37).
By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that God the Father was once a man like us who progressed to become a God and has a body of flesh and bone (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22; "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!" from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-347; Gospel Principles, p. 9; Articles of Faith, p. 430; Mormon Doctrine, p. 321). Indeed, the Mormon Church teaches that God himself has a father, and a grandfather, ad infinitum (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373; Mormon Doctrine, p. 577).
3. Are Jesus and Satan Spirit Brothers?
The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that Jesus is the unique Son of God; he has always existed as God, and is co-eternal and co-equal with the Father (John 1:1, 14; 10:30; 14:9; Colossians 2:9). While never less than God, at the appointed time He laid aside the glory He shared with the Father (John 17:4, 5; Philippians 2:6-11) and was made flesh for our salvation; His incarnation was accomplished through being conceived supernaturally by the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin (Matthew 1:18-23; Luke 1:34-35).
By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Jesus Christ is our elder brother who progressed to godhood, having first been procreated as a spirit child by Heavenly Father and a heavenly mother; He was later conceived physically through intercourse between Heavenly Father and the virgin Mary (D&C 93:21; Journal of Discourses, 1:50-51; Gospel Principles, p. 11-13; Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p. 129; Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 546-547; 742; Ezra Taft Benson, Come unto Christ, p. 4; Robert L. Millet, The Mormon Faith: Understanding Restored Christianity, p. 31). Mormon doctrine affirms that Jesus, all angels, Lucifer, all demons, and all human beings are originally spirit brothers and sisters (Abraham 3:22-27; Moses 4:1-2; Gospel Principles, pp. 17-18; Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).
4. Is God a Trinity?
The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost are not separate Gods or separate beings, but are distinct Persons within the one Triune Godhead. Throughout the New Testament the Son and the Holy Spirit, as well as the Father are separately identified as and act as God (Son: Mark 2:5-12; John 20:28; Philippians 2:10,11; Holy Spirit: Acts 5:3,4; 2 Corinthians 3:17,18; 13:14); yet at the same time the Bible teaches that these three are only one God (see point 1).
By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate Gods (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 576-577), and that the Son and Holy Ghost are the literal offspring of Heavenly Father and a celestial wife (Joseph Fielding McConkie, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 2, p. 649).
5. Was The Sin Of Adam and Eve a Great Evil Or a Great Blessing?
The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the disobedience of our first parents Adam and Eve was a great evil. Through their fall sin entered the world, bringing all human beings under condemnation and death. Thus we are born with a sinful nature, and will be judged for the sins we commit as individuals. (Ezekiel 18:1-20; Romans 5:12-21).
By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Adam’s sin was "a necessary step in the plan of life and a great blessing to all of us" (Gospel Principles, p. 33; Book of Mormon — 2 Nephi 2:25; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 114-115).
6. Can We Make Ourselves Worthy Before God?
The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that apart from the saving work of Jesus Christ on the cross we are spiritually "dead in trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1,5) and are powerless to save ourselves. By grace alone, apart from self-righteous works, God forgives our sins and makes us worthy to live in His presence (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5-6). Our part is only to cling to Christ in heartfelt faith. (However, it is certainly true that without the evidence of changed conduct, a person’s testimony of faith in Christ must be questioned; salvation by grace alone through faith, does not mean we can live as we please — Romans 6:1-4).
By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that eternal life in the presence of God (which it terms "exaltation in the celestial kingdom") must be earned through obedience to all the commands of the Mormon Church, including exclusive Mormon temple rituals. Works are a requirement for salvation (entrance into the "celestial kingdom") — Gospel Principles, p. 303-304; Pearl of Great Price — Third Article of Faith; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 339, 671; Book of Mormon — 2 Nephi 25:23).
7. Does Christ's Atoning Death Benefit Those Who Reject Him?
The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the purpose of the atoning work of Christ on the cross was to provide the complete solution for humankind’s sin problem. However, those who reject God’s grace in this life will have no part in this salvation but are under the judgment of God for eternity (John 3:36; Hebrews 9:27; 1 John 5:11-12).
By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that the purpose of the atonement was to bring resurrection and immortality to all people, regardless of whether they receive Christ by faith. Christ’s atonement is only a partial basis for worthiness and eternal life, which also requires obedience to all the commands of the Mormon church, including exclusive Mormon temple rituals (Gospel Principles, pp. 74-75; Mormon Doctrine, p. 669).
8. Is The Bible The Unique and Final Word of God?
The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the Bible is the unique, final and infallible Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 1:1,2; 2 Peter 1:21) and that it will stand forever (1 Peter 1:23-25). God’s providential preservation of the text of the Bible was marvelously illustrated in the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that the Bible has been corrupted, is missing many "plain and precious parts" and does not contain the fullness of the Gospel (Book of Mormon — 1 Nephi 13:26-29; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, pp. 190-191).
9. Did The Early Church Fall Into Total Apostasy?
The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the true Church was divinely established by Jesus and could never and will never disappear from the earth (Matthew 16:18; John 15:16; 17:11). Christians acknowledge that there have been times of corruption and apostasy within the Church, but believe there has always been a remnant that held fast to the biblical essentials.
By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that there was a great and total apostasy of the Church as established by Jesus Christ; this state of apostasy "still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" of the Mormon Church (Gospel Principles, pp. 105-106; Mormon Doctrine, p. 44).
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Conclusion: The above points in italics constitute the common gospel believed by all orthodox Christians through the ages regardless of denominational labels. On the other hand, some new religions such as Mormonism claim to be Christian, but accept as Scripture writings outside of the Bible, teach doctrines that contradict the Bible, and hold to beliefs completely foreign to the teachings of Jesus and His apostles.
Mormons share with orthodox Christians some important moral precepts from the Bible. However, the above points are examples of the many fundamental and irreconcilable differences between historic, biblical Christianity and Mormonism. While these differences do not keep us from being friendly with Mormons, we cannot consider them brothers and sisters in Christ. The Bible specifically warns of false prophets who will teach "another gospel" centered around "another Jesus," and witnessed to by "another spirit" (2 Corinthians 11:4,13-15; Galatians 1:6-9). Based on the evidence presented above, we believe Mormonism represents just such a counterfeit gospel.
It has been pointed out that if one claimed to be a Mormon but denied all the basic tenets of Mormonism — that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, that the Book of Mormon is true and divinely inspired, that god was once a man who progressed to godhood through keeping the laws and ordinances of the Mormon Church, and that the Mormon Church was divinely established — the Mormon Church would reject such a person’s claim to being a Latter-day Saint. One cannot fairly call oneself a Mormon if one does not believe the fundamental doctrines taught by the Mormon Church. By the same token, if the Mormon Church does not hold to even the basic biblical truths believed by the greater Christian community down through the ages, how can Christians reasonably be expected to accept Mormonism as authentic Christianity?
If the Mormon Church believes it is the only true Christian Church, it should not attempt to publicly present itself as a part of a broader Christian community. Instead it should tell the world openly that those who claim to be orthodox Christians are not really Christians at all, and that the Mormon Church is the only true Christian Church. This in fact is what it teaches privately, but not publicly.
Statements of 5 Christian Denominations on Mormonism
Christian churches teach belief in God as an eternal, self-existent, immortal being, unfettered by corporeal limitations and unchanging in both character and nature. In recent years, several Christian denominations have made studies of Mormon teaching and come to the conclusion that there are irreconcilable differences between LDS doctrine and Christian beliefs based on the Bible.
• Statement of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod
• Statement of the Presbyterian Church (USA)
• Statement of the Roman Catholic Church
• Statement of the Southern Baptist Convention
• Statement of the United Methodist Church
..
"Some people back then mistakenly said that Jesus had a demon but He was actually doing the work of God. People are making the same mistake these days when it comes to how they view Latter-day Saints."
They like their quirky pronunciations here. If you pass through Altus, the first sylable rhymes with pal, not call. I live here and only remember to get it right about half the time.
I knew about the Hobart pronunciation but almost bever remember to say it right. I would probably tell the city administrator “you (or y’all) need to fix the spelling.”
I guess you can take me out of Connecticut, but you can’t take the Connecticut out of me.
What a breath of fresh air!
Hey, the family is up...
Gotta go, it’s been ... well it been predictable, fro the most part.
I leave you all with this, would Jesus really have you be posting here instead of spending time with your family?
What took you so long?
I expected you'd be in with your vitriol within the first 5 posts, at the least - since you seem to live, breathe and hover to spew your UN-CHRISTIAN anti-Mormon pontifications.
You must’ve been taking a nap.
Don't bother with a reply - it won't be read, much less commented upon. This post isn't even to you as much as for other Freepers who may not yet know how bitter and hateful your rants are - ALWAYS - against anything Mormon.
Sympathies to you, tho’. It has to be hard, carrying the weight of knowing everything, even for God, on your shoulders.
Mormonism IS Historic Christianity.
Merry Christmas! Happy New Year!
“The “church” consists of the people, not the writers of the Theology = the rules laid out by the church elders.”
The people in a church body are education and should share a common theology. Otherwise what you have is a place to hang out on sunday, like a country club without a bar.
“People are misled in all demoninations, Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Episcopal and Mormon.”
There is a difference in *who* is doing the misleading. Is any one denomination perfect in Theology or in deeds? no... But Apostate Gospels like that followed by Mormons does not get a pass just because we are all in need of some improvement.
They do not worship the same God, and if you dig about in their theology or history you will see even *they* know that.
This is not meatless firdays, this is not pre trib or post trib discussions.. Heck this is not even election vs free will or tracition vs Sola scriptura. The difference here is the very nature and perfection of God! What would it take for them to *not* be Christian?
I'll repeat and extend, Jesus is not posting on this thread though there are many posting in his name without the authority to do so
AMEN
“Hate is not something I think I should be feeling from Christians.”
Wishy washy horse manure:
“As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”
Aww Paul, why do you have to hate man... Feel the love...
“As for being Christian like I said they worship Christ”
But not *as* God... They do not believe in the Trinity, they do not believe in the Holy Spirit as an individual member of the God Head. They think God made Jesus as a spirt baby though sex with his spirit wife that Jesus *and his brother* Lucifer differed on how to save man.
The Jesus they worship shares a name, little else..
It is not hateful to yell “look out” when you see someone on the Road, in front of a moving car. How much less hate is it to yell it when they are on the road to hell?
If polygamy was divinely approved (instead of being merely a legally-permitted concession to human weakness under the Old Covenant), why didn't God create Adam and Eve, and Sally, and Jennifer, and Brittany, and ... ?
You'll note what happened to Abraham's son by Hagar ... he was divinely disinherited: "Take your son, Isaac ... take your only son ...".
Here's a pretty good FAQ page from a Jewish source, which makes it clear that the permission of polygamy was a divine concession to human weakness and established custom.
Simple mathematics demonstrates that, apart from warfare which kills off large numbers of males, polygamy will always result in high-status men collecting wives, while low-status men go without. There simply aren't enough women to go around.
This is why the fundamentalist Mormon cult communities routinely run off their adolescent boys -- the randy old goats (to put it bluntly) who run the place don't want competition for the young girls.
If you want to talk about encouraging prostitution (and homosexuality), polygamy is very effective at doing exactly that.
Many Athiest believe in Jesus... Does that make them a Christian?
ALL: I want to carefully outline to you sheer Mormonistic schizophrenia on this one phrase PD has shared.
What PD is implying is that there WAS NO "historic Christianity" beyond a certain century til Joseph Smith came along. He might pick nothing beyond the 4th or 3rd or 2nd century...Makes no difference which of those centuries he picks out as the dividing line.
The bottom line is: Most Mormons say Christianity didn't exist in the 18th century --> going back to either the 4th, 3rd, 2nd or even first centuries!
Now why do I say this is "schizophrenic?":
Well, you see most Mormons are highly ambivalent about this. How so?
#1 Lots of Mormons like to speak highly of our Free Republic's 18th century founding fathers (some Glenn Beck, speak a mixed message on our Christian founders). Other Mormons beyond Glenn are "mixed" in that while they speak highly of founding fathers, they turn right around and indirectly reference them all as deists and apostate Christians!
Yes, your heard it right: Mormons believe those founding fathers who claim to be "Christian" were actually apostates...and that many of their "spirits" showed up in the 1870s @ the St. George, Utah Mormon temple & urged future Lds "prophet" Woodruff to get them baptized express pronto into the Mormon church! (Baptism for the dead)
Other examples of Mormon ambivalence:
#2 On the one hand Mormons tout the supposed Christian apostasy of our founders and ALL Americans in the late 18th century and early 19th century....
...Yet most of the Mormons I know or talk with don't seemingly want to wrestle with these verses:
(a) Ephesians 3:21, where the apostle Paul prophesied God would receive glory "in the church" throughout all ages forever and ever. Well. gee. Which is it? Corrupt, creedally abominable apostates or God-glorifiers? Hmmm....
(b) Joseph Smith prophesied Sept. 22-23, 1832: the “priesthood CONTINUETH IN THE CHURCH OF GOD in ALL GENERATIONS, and is WITHOUT BEGINNING OF DAYS OR END OF YEARS. And the Lord confirmed a priesthood also upon Aaron and his seed, THROUGHOUT ALL GENERATIONS, WHICH PRIESTHOOD ALSO CONTINUETH FOREVER WITH THE PRIESTHOOD which is after the holiest order of God.” (D&C 84:17-18)
Wanna tell us, PD, how the priesthood continued in the Church of God in ALL generations without end of years if it ended for 1500-1700 years?
How could this happen if those "generations" were supposedly in "apostasy?" How could that happen "without...end of years?" (Smith TWICE stressed throughout ALL generations!)
Now, match that with also prophesying in 1832 to 1832 Mormons that this “priesthood hath continued through the lineage of your fathers” (D&C 86:8) — and since almost all of the “fathers” of these 1832 Mormons were either Christian or pagan or deceased or whatever — but certainly were NOT Mormons...
...Then tell, us dear Mormons: On what grounds do you exclude the Christian Church from your dear exclusive priesthood club?
On what grounds, dear Mormons: Do you exclude us from being the true church (according to D&C 1:30)?
On what grounds, dear Mormons: Do you call us “apostates” who triggered a needy “restoration” of the gospel and the true Church?
On what grounds, dear Mormons: Did you claim that the “light of the gospel leading to salvation” was lost for a long period of time on earth?
By labeling us all as such, you openly consign the apostle Paul and Joseph Smith to the garbage bin of false prophets!
Therefore, either Mormons out there are internally lying/covering up that they believe Smith is a false prophet, OR more likely, they believe Smith was telling the truth in D&C 84:17-18; 86:8...which means they believe that the priesthood was rec'd via "the lineage of their fathers" (86:8) and this was a continuous priesthood passed down "throughout all generations" (84:17-18).
But if this was passed down to them by a faulty generational apostate priesthood, how are they legit? If they believe these D&C passages, therefore, then they are forced to conclude the Christian church was NOT "apostate" after all pre-1830 -- and their claims that we are apostates as the Christian church is a sham perpetrated by sham con artist religious leaders in the Mormon church!
Do you really think the definition of the nature of God should be organized, overseen and set by a random MORMON Living Prophet® and 12 of the non-biblical YESMEN?
I'll just bet you do!
Polygamy, still found in MORMON 'scripture', not practiced in over a hundred years by the fearful group based in Salt Lake City, and preached AGAINST in the BIBLE and the Book of MORMON to boo, is addressed on DU's page, but it’s STILL spun into a very fine gossamer.
Never having seen a Mormon post that didn't END with “I'm superior”, I wonder if DU just might have an inferior seeing-eye dog.
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