The Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary

Against Helvidius ^ | 383AD | St. Jerome

[marshmallow]

Jerome, saint, doctor of the Church, biblical scholar and translator of the Vulgate version of the Bible expounds the doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Blessed Mary. Written around 380AD, it shows once more, the ancient ecclesial origin of this teaching.

[marshmallow]

Ping!

[marshmallow]

Further to our discussion a day or two back on this subject.

A little "romish mythology" for you.......... :-)

[Mr. K]

Yes! this is wonderful news!

It would change EVERYTHING if I though her and her husband were ‘doing it’

I am so glad thousands and thousands of pages of articles are spent dicussing Mary’s ‘prepetual virginity’

Beacuse THATS IMPORTANT!

[Cletus.D.Yokel]

A PV of the BVM ping at you.

Ahhhhh, memories. Back in the days of really good CAT fights!

[marshmallow]

Important to the Church Fathers, certainly.

And important to those Christians interested in the truth.

To modern American congregationalists...........not so much.

[topcat54]

Thanks. Perhaps you can take a crack at this one. I posted it a couple times, starting with the thread on Mary as the ark of the new covenant, but no one from your camp has responded so far.

Did Mary suffer physical pain at the birth of Christ?

Answering in the negative, Aquinas quotes Augustine, "In conceiving thou wast all pure, in giving birth thou wast without pain." (Summa Theologica, III Question 35 Art. 6). Aquinas goes on to state:

I answer that, The pains of childbirth are caused by the infant opening the passage from the womb. Now it has been said above (Q[28], A[2], Replies to objections), that Christ came forth from the closed womb of His Mother, and, consequently, without opening the passage. Consequently there was no pain in that birth, as neither was there any corruption; on the contrary, there was much joy therein for that God-Man "was born into the world," according toIsa. 35:1, 2: "Like the lily, it shall bud forth and blossom, and shall rejoice with joy and praise."

Yet in the description of the woman in Rev. 12 we read, "Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth." This is allegedly a reference to Mary in Romish mythology.

[xjcsa]

Jerome, saint, doctor of the Church, biblical scholar and translator of the Vulgate version of the Bible expounds the doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Blessed Mary. Written around 380AD, it shows once more, the ancient ecclesial origin of this teaching.

Ancient? Yes. Biblical? No. In fact, he spends his whole time trying to wiggle out of the plain meaning of the text.

I do particularly enjoy where he refers to Helvidius as an "ignorant boor" and in the next breath complains that Helvidius might resort to attacking him.

[Responsibility2nd]

So does this answer the question;

“Would Joseph hit it?”

(Go ahead. Someone hit report abuse.)

[muawiyah]

No doubt.

Hey, not having read it all this time through I've forgotten ~ did he include a discussion of the possibility Mary and Joseph actually became spirit beings who drifted a foot off the ground the rest of their days?

Remember, they both had angels visit them in their dreams, so maybe there was a swap.

Wearing long cloaks would have hidden the fact they no longer needed to wear sandles.

(NOTE: Not ridiculing the arguments, just their extent ~ and I'm sure that for some of the debaters on this multi century discussion almost everything that could have been imagined has been imagined).

[LiteKeeper]

Awful lot of hermeneutical gymnastics to “prove” what the Bible is silent on. Jerome was not infallible, and had an agenda to sustain. Couple this with the Immaculate Conception myth, another issue about which the Bible dos not speak, and you have a lot of mythology!!!

[RobRoy]

>>Yes! this is wonderful news!

It would change EVERYTHING if I though her and her husband were ‘doing it’

I am so glad thousands and thousands of pages of articles are spent dicussing Mary’s ‘prepetual virginity’

Beacuse THATS IMPORTANT!<<

I actually started to read this and then scrolled down to see how long it was. Oy vey.

As computer programmer I learned that I had come across the “correct” solution to a problem when It became very simple. If that article was a computer program we would call it “spaghetti code”.

The fact remains that there is not a single place in the bible that even HINTS that she was perpetual virgin, and plenty of places that clearly infer that she had sex with her husband. Further, there is no Christian purpose for her to remain a virgin after Jesus’ birth.

Anything else is just intellectual gymnastics, and the author had demonstrated his ability to swing with the best of ‘em.

[RobRoy]

>>In fact, he spends his whole time trying to wiggle out of the plain meaning of the text.<<

This pretty much sums up the whole exercise, and in a single sentence. Excellent job, sir.

[RobRoy]

infer=imply. Sorry...

[Christian Engineer Mass]

What is the point of this doctrine? Is it to imply that Mary is sinless?

Matthew 1:23-25

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

[marshmallow]

"A woman"...

The church of God. It may also, by allusion, be applied to Our Blessed Lady. The church is clothed with the sun, that is, with Christ: she has the moon, that is, the changeable things of the world, under her feet: and the twelve stars with which she is crowned, are the twelve apostles: she is in labor and pain, whilst she brings forth her children, and Christ in them, in the midst of afflictions and persecutions.

In bringing forth Christ and giving Him to the world, Mary also suffered greatly, as prophesied by Simeon....."and thy own soul a sword shall pierce..........".

[BenKenobi]

None so blind as those who will not see.

[Christian Engineer Mass]

"It would change EVERYTHING if I though her and her husband were ‘doing it’"

Why?

Matthew 12:46-50

While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

[BenKenobi]

“What is the point of this doctrine? Is it to imply that Mary is sinless?”

Obviously it means quite a bit to you because you are willing to go out of your way to try to show that this is wrong.

Why do you care so much?

[Christian Engineer Mass]

If you are going to ask me a question, please at least make an attempt to answer mine.

What is the point of this doctrine? Is it to imply that Mary is sinless?

Matthew 1:23-25

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.