Are You More Blessed Than the Virgin Mary?

Desiring God ^ | 12/15/2010 | Jonathan Parnell

[RnMomof7]

In the sermon descriptively entitled, “That Hearing and Keeping the Word of God Renders a Person More Blessed Than Any Other Privilege That Ever God Bestowed on Any of the Children of Men,” Jonathan Edwards writes: The hearing and keeping the word of God brings the happiness of a spiritual union and communion with God. ‘Tis a greater blessedness to have spiritual communion with God and to have a saving intercourse with him by the instances of his Spirit and by the exercise of true devotion than it is to converse with God externally, to see the visible representation and manifestations of his presence and glory, and to hear his voice with the bodily ears as Moses did. For in this spiritual intercourse the soul is nigh unto and hath more a particular portion than in any external intercourse. ‘Tis more blessed to be spiritually related to Jesus Christ—to be his disciples, his brethren and the members—than to stand in the nearest temporal relation, than to be his brother or his mother. Come, Thou Long Expected Jesus, ed. Nancy Guthrie, 57.

[Cronos]

Let's review -- in your post #8, YOU said The ark is a type of CHRIST placed in the Holy of Holies

To say that the ark was Christ in any way is to deny the Divinity-Humanity nature of Christ.
Do you, Rn:

• Think that Jesus Christ was just a container for God, not actually God in flesh?
• Think that Jesus Christ was created by God, just a creature, not God?
• Think that Jesus Christ is akin to the ark, a created thing, not God?

your logic of comparing the ARk to Christ is blasphemous because

the Ark of the Old Covenant

• a container for the Word written down by Moses.
• Not God, just a container, something created
• Not God, just a container, filled with the grace of God
• Not a sacrifice, not a teacher, not a preacher

Christ

• God and man
• 100% God and 100% man, not a container, not a phantom, not just a spirit, but God in flesh
• The Word incarnate, not a container for the Word
• Begotten not made, not created -- not a creature
• Preacher, teacher, Lord, God, not a container, not a created being

Please do tell us if you believe the following:

We Believe in One Lord Jesus Christ
The Only Son of God
Eternally Begotten of the Father
God from God, Light from Light
True God from True God
Begotten, Not Made
One in Being (homoousia) with the Father
Through Him All Things Were Made

[Cronos]

Luke does NOT says MORE blessed. If you read 11:28 literally it seems on first reading to say "No, she ain't, rather are..." which is incorrect. What He is saying is yes, she is blessed, but ALSO are blessed those that hear the word of God and keept it. There is no indication of a comparative in that verse.

If you intended 11:28 to indicate that "blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it. " to mean "MORE blessed...", then your interpretation is flawed.

[johngrace]

You went To Mass and did not hear the bible?

Are you making this up?

Daily bible reading is everyday at Mass

Here's Today's:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2643366/posts

[Cronos]

Actually you are incorrect about Hindus -- I've lived in India and met rishis and even normal Hindus. Both believe that the idols are actually God -- not symbols or indicators, but they are actually emanations of god (or one of the gods to be more precise). They do believe that you have a bit of god in you, in the sense that you are divine partly as well, hence there is a prayer of the Hindus to worship in front of a mirror (to worship the divine in you) and the indian greeting "namaskar" has it's origins in that (nam = name, askar = "respects"), it's origins meant that they would worship the divine spark in the other. Of course, on never said that to a Shudra!

For Buddhists -- well, it varies. Most Buddhists are Mahayana and so the same applies -- for Theravada Buddhists it's a lot more complex than that -- everything is "divine" in a way, but Theravada is more rigidly a-theistic than the Mahayana vehicle

[johngrace]

December 16, 2010

Thursday of the Third Week of Advent

Reading 1
Responsorial Psalm
Gospel

Reading 1

Is 54:1-10

Raise a glad cry, you barren one who did not bear,
Break forth in jubilant song, you who were not in labor,
For more numerous are the children of the deserted wife
than the children of her who has a husband,
says the LORD.
Enlarge the space for your tent,
spread out your tent cloths unsparingly;
lengthen your ropes and make firm your stakes.
For you shall spread abroad to the right and to the left;
your descendants shall dispossess the nations
and shall people the desolate cities.

Fear not, you shall not be put to shame;
you need not blush, for you shall not be disgraced.
The shame of your youth you shall forget,
the reproach of your widowhood no longer remember.
For he who has become your husband is your Maker;
his name is the LORD of hosts;
Your redeemer is the Holy One of Israel,
called God of all the earth.
The LORD calls you back,
like a wife forsaken and grieved in spirit,
A wife married in youth and then cast off,
says your God.
For a brief moment I abandoned you,
but with great tenderness I will take you back.
In an outburst of wrath, for a moment
I hid my face from you;
But with enduring love I take pity on you,
says the LORD, your redeemer.

This is for me like the days of Noah,
when I swore that the waters of Noah
should never again deluge the earth;
So I have sworn not to be angry with you,
or to rebuke you.
Though the mountains leave their place
and the hills be shaken,
My love shall never leave you
nor my covenant of peace be shaken,
says the LORD, who has mercy on you.

Ps 30:2 and 4, 5-6, 11-12a and 13b
Responsorial Psalm
R. (2a) I will praise you, Lord, for you have rescued me.
I will extol you, O LORD, for you drew me clear
and did not let my enemies rejoice over me.
O LORD, you brought me up from the nether world;
you preserved me from among those going down into the pit.
R. I will praise you, Lord, for you have rescued me.
Sing praise to the LORD, you his faithful ones,
and give thanks to his holy name.
For his anger lasts but a moment;
a lifetime, his good will.
At nightfall, weeping enters in,
but with the dawn, rejoicing.
R. I will praise you, Lord, for you have rescued me.
“Hear, O LORD, and have pity on me;
O LORD, be my helper.”
You changed my mourning into dancing;
O LORD, my God, forever will I give you thanks.
R. I will praise you, Lord, for you have rescued me.

Lk 7:24-30
Gospel
When the messengers of John the Baptist had left,
Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John.
“What did you go out to the desert to see B a reed swayed by the wind?
Then what did you go out to see?
Someone dressed in fine garments?
Those who dress luxuriously and live sumptuously
are found in royal palaces.
Then what did you go out to see?
A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet.
This is the one about whom Scripture says:

Behold, I am sending my messenger ahead of you,
he will prepare your way before you.

I tell you,
among those born of women, no one is greater than John;
yet the least in the Kingdom of God is greater than he.”
(All the people who listened, including the tax collectors,
who were baptized with the baptism of John,
acknowledged the righteousness of God;
but the Pharisees and scholars of the law,
who were not baptized by him,
rejected the plan of God for themselves.)

[Cronos]

you said

The Ark’s Contents
The stone tables of the law
Aaron’s rod
A pot of manna
etc. etc.

-- however, do note that the Ark is NOT God, but just a created thing. Do you by comparing Christ to the Ark believe that Christ was a created being, NOT God?

[Cronos]

As I said in my post, and I'll repeat again for your edification, the Catechism -- highlighted in chapter 846 that states that How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Reformulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body" (CCC 846).

The Church teaches that Christ's sacrifice is what saved us -- his sacrifice was super-sufficient for our salvation

We are saved by Christ's salvic action on the Cross, Christ is the Head of the church.. the body of believers.. the bride of Christ , the saved..

[Cronos]

As I said

1. We Christians here in Christ's Church, the One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church believe that Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Our God saved Mary, His created being, His mother.

2. We believe that Mary being a daughter of Adam and Eve would have been faithed to have the same "stain" from Original Sin. you believe in that "stain", too, correct?

3. Mary in the Magnificat (Luke 1:46-55) when she is bearing Jesus Christ -- NOTE: Jesus has not been born yet, He has not yet (in our space-time) been the sacrifice on the Cross she says my spirit rejoices in God, my right NOW Saviour

4. Note: Mary does not say "my spirit rejoices in God, my future Saviour", but she says "in Deo salvatore meo,", "my current Saviour",

5. Mary clearly indicates that God (Jesus Christ) has already saved her. How is that possible if he has not yet been on the Cross or even been born yet?

6. This very clearly indicates that Mary needed a savior too and her Savior saved Her somehow even before He was born

I take it that you agree with this so far?

7. The only conclusion is that somehow before His work on the Cross, Christ already saved his created being, His mother, mary.

Do you agree with this? Since Mary sings a praise of God who IS her savior (and Christ was still in her womb at that point in time, yet had already saved her)

8. The logical conclusion is He protected her from sin and in fact "saved" her from sin even before He was born.

Since God, our Lord Jesus Christ had already saved her, yet we know that the salvific sacrifice on the Cross had not yet occured, and we know that sinful man is born with the stain of sin, the only logical conclusion is that HE protected her from sin, He in fact "saved" His mother, His created being.

Saints of the OT had not yet been saved at that point in time when Mary was carrying Christ in the womb -- remember that there was the limbo of the Fathers and Christ opened the gates of heaven for the dead. "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." -- Abraham was happy to see Christ's day of sacrifice on the cross as the OT saints were saved at that point, yet Mary called Christ her Savior BEFORE that day, when He was still in her womb, He was already her Savior, He had ALREADY saved her.

This is quite different from the OT saints who were saved by the salvific act on the Cross -- they would call Him their future savior at the point that He was still in His mother's womb. Yet Mary called Him her current, RIGHT NOW, Savior

[Cronos]

Rn: the blood of sacrifices was poured on the Ark

And yet the Ark was not a sacrifice, the Ark did not bleed. But Christ WAS the Sacrifice, Christ did bleed for us.

Rn: He had to come into the Holy of Holies with the blood of a goat, on behalf of his own and the people of Israel's sins -- now are you incorrectly concluding that the Ark forgave people's sins??? That's blasphemous

To say that The Ark was a type of the body of Christ is blasphemous to say that ..It showed that should tell you enough -- Christ did not "show" someone else, Christ WAS the One God and One Man.

The Ark was NOT God -- understand that.

[Cronos]

on this thread itself there is represented a couple of dozen pretty active Catholics that know quite a bit and read the Bible regularly.

And there are many more silent Catholic readers on this forum and many, many more CAtholics in the real world who do far more than "crack open" a Bible but diligently study The Word of God and grew deeper in Christ, in His Catholic Faith.

[Cronos]

And yet the Greeks and the Greek Orthodox who do their readings in the original Greek believe in Mary being full of grace. Could they perhaps know better Greek than the chaps you mentioned?

[Cronos]

Rn -- you can ask any Protestant if he/she agrees with you in your supposition that the ark was a type of Christ -- I'm pretty sure that most of the protestants I've linked in this post will disagre with you on this. Your conclusion indicates that Christ was some kind of container (just a container for God??) is to deny the Divinity-Humanity nature of Christ.

[Cronos]

Which version? The one that makes Rn say that the Ark was a type of Christ?

[Cronos]

Nivkh or Gilyak (self-designation: Нивхгу диф, Nivxgu dif; Japanese: ニヴフ語/ギリヤーク語, nivufu-go/giriyāku-go) is a language spoken in Outer Manchuria, in the basin of the Amgun (a tributary of the Amur), along the lower reaches of the Amur itself, and on the northern half of Sakhalin. 'Gilyak' is the Manchu appellation. Its speakers are known as the Nivkhs.

Nivkh does not appear to be related to any other language, making it a language isolate. For classification convenience, it is included in the group of Paleosiberian languages. Many words in the Nivkh language bear a certain resemblance to words of similar meaning in other Paleosiberian languages, Ainu, Korean, or Altaic languages, but no regular sound correspondences have been discovered to systematically account for the vocabularies of these various languages, so any lexical similarities are considered to be due to chance or to borrowing. The Nivkh language was included in the controversial Eurasiatic languages hypothesis

[wmfights]

Which version?

I can understand the confusion RC's have about understanding The Gospel, they haven't been told what it is yet. However, they sure can wear out the knees in their britches kneeling down and worshiping Mary. Oh well, more's to pity.

[Quix]

Yum, Quaking Puffs, there’s millions of Charismatic Catholics eating it for breakfast.

.
.

[Quix]

This makes no sense at all.

OF COURSE IT DOESN'T!

Toooooooooooooo many synapses are likely toooooo short circuited by tooooooo many wet White Hankys.

[Quix]

Yeah, the irrational Papist bigots seem to have absolutely no rational reasoning power theologically or historically at all.

It’s a wonder they can even find their way around their

DAFFYNITIONARY.

[Quix]

Only Catholics that keep trying to legitimize their worship of Mary want to turn a type of Christ into a type of Mary

That my friend is blasphemy

---

INDEED.

[Quix]

What is it with this obtuse . . . impossibility of understanding plain Scripture about idolatry?

Evidently they cherish their idols too much to begin to be honest about those Scriptures.