Posted on 12/12/2010 3:38:28 AM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
Volunteer harvesters from the United States and Canada, have local Jewish vintners in Samaria, otherwise known as the West Bank, wondering if not just the grapes, but also the times - are ripening.
The Hebrew prophet Isaiah predicted that close to the time of the Messiah's coming, the sons of foreigners would be their vinedressers.
"Our sages have taught us that during the times of the final redemption, which we are right now in, other nations will come to help build the land of Israel, to help the Jewish nation, to fulfill all of the prophesies," said Yonatan Behar, the spokesman for the Yeshiva Har Bracha.
Tommy Waller, a Christian from the U.S., has harvested in Samaria's vineyards for the past six years. What started out as a one-time family project has grown into Ha Yovel Ministries with more than 150 North American volunteers.
"The word of God is true and that people need to connect to it and people need to come to the land to experience the harvest," Waller said.
"We just wanted to come out here and fulfill prophecy of picking grapes. We've read the Bible, Jeremaiah and Isaiah," one harvester said.
This year, they are harvesting about 100 acres of vineyards -- the equivalent of a staggering 400,000 bottles of wine.
Israelis are saying, 'If you don't come, we're in trouble. If you don't come, these vines don't get harvested.'
Why? It's difficult to attract Israeli labour, and regular sabotage of the fields makes Jewish vintners cautious of Arab workers.
The harvesters come bringing musicians to play worship music while the grapes are gathered. At a time that Israeli Jews believe could be the final redemption before the Messiah comes, it appears that the fields are ripe and that Christians are the ones given the task to harvest.
"In the Bible, it is written that when Meshiach will come, people from all the world will come and help Israel, and we believe in it," Vered ben Sa'adon, Tura Winery and Vineyard, said.
Here's your "context":
I take from your post that you do NOT believe in the Millennial reign of Jesus on earth?
“I take from your post that you do NOT believe in the Millennial reign of Jesus earth?”
Not the Dispy-fundie version of it.
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/olivet01.html
[snip]
How then does this relate to the Olivet Discourse? The scene of Daniel 7, as Caird says [Wr.JVG, 341], involves not “a primitive form of space travel” but “a symbol for a mighty reversal of fortunes within history and at the national level...”
The scene is one of a victorious enthronement and vindication over enemies. To emphasize this, we will also need to pull in a verse from another part of the Gospels:
Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.(Mark 14:62)
Luke 22:69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
Jesus’ retort to Caiaphas, in light of the primary charge that Jesus threatened the Temple, is of great significance in this context. “As a prophet, Jesus staked his reputation on his prediction of the Temple’s fall within a generation; if and when it fell, he would thereby be vindicated.”
Jesus also promoted himself as the new Temple which would replace the old one, with his predictions that he would raise a new one — his body — in three days.
If the Temple did NOT fall, he would be proven a charlatan. But if the Temple did indeed fall, he would be vindicated — just like Daniel’s “Son of Man” which he claimed to be.
In saying he will ride the clouds, Jesus is not saying, as Wright wryly notes, that Caiaphas would one day walk by a window, look outside, and see Jesus popping a wheelie on a cumulus. Rather Jesus is saying, “You will see me vindicated; you will see my predictions come true.”
The “coming” — as noted, using the word erchomai, which specifies neither destination nor direction — alludes to the “going” of the Daniel 7 Son of Man from earth to heaven to be enthroned.
Caipahas (or more likely, the collective assembled for the trial; as well as the “tribes of the earth” — Matthew uses “tribes” elsewhere only of Israel [19:18], and the word is used in the Septuagint to refer to them; and “earth” is ge, or land, can mean a limited area or the entire globe; in context, and in the light of the use of “tribes,” as well as the allusion to Zech 12:10 [”And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him”] it most likely means Jerusalem or Judaea only) will see the rise of the Christian movement (”from now on” or “hereafter” in the KJV), followed by the destruction of Jerusalem just as Jesus predicted — thus proving that he was and is the true Messiah, “the one in and through whom the covenant god is acting to set up his kingdom.”
Jesus also speaks, in all three versions, of being at the right hand of power — alluding all through again to Daniel 7 and the enthronement of the Son of Man. Hearken now back to the disciples’ original question. They want to know, in essence, when Jesus will assume the kingship.
Jesus replies by indicating that “the Temple’s destruction would constitute his own vindication.” [Wr.JVG, 342] His parousia, his enthronement as king, would be “consequent upon the dethronement of the present powers that were occupying the holy city.” [346]
In the Jewish mindset, the establishment of a Temple was intertwined with kingship. Solomon built the first temple; Herod rebuilt the temple as a sign of his kingship; Bar Kochba showed intentions to rebuild the temple in the 130s AD as part of his pseudo-messianic program.
In the new era, the temple of God is now the individual believer (1 Cor. 3:16-17, 6:19) and the body of believers (Eph. 2:21). The Spirit indwells in the believer, where the Shekinah once dwelt in the Jewish temple.
Christ now sits at the right hand of the father (Heb. 12:22, Eph. 1:20, Acts 2:33, etc.) and rules his kingdom. Paul sees Christ reigning now, though all is not yet accomplished in that reign (1 Cor. 15:25).
This is NOT to say that, as pantelists maintain, the resurrection has occurred already and Christ is through with the world. That can’t be read from the Scriptures. But it is clear that with the events of 70, the reign of Christ confirmed in a very unique way.
This leaves a couple of loose ends to tie up. Matthew does say as well that a “sign” shall be seen, seemingly in heaven; what of that?
[snip] Continued here: http://www.tektonics.org/esch/olivet01.html
You probably should let the Jews know who now have about 80% of the furnishings and instruments of the third Temple already finished in anticipation of the rebuilding in the near future.
“You probably should let __the Jews__ know who now have about 80% of the furnishings and instruments of the third Temple already finished in anticipation of the rebuilding in the near future.”
I think YOU should let them know, since you’re the Dispy-fundie expert.
That is... IF you can find them: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2632351/posts?page=47#47
<>
More:
Book Review:
“..The book The American Prophecies is another example of pop-dispensationalism’s own brand of replacement theology namely, the placing of the nation of Israel into the place rightfully occupied by Jesus Christ as the central figure of prophecy and eschatology. ..” ~ Steve Gregg http://www.equip.org/articles/american-prophecies-ancient-scriptures-reveal-our-nation-s-future
Why would I let them know? They obviously agree with me and are preparing for the new Temple. You’re the one who says they are wrong and should have Biblical proof of your assertions. I would think you could show them where they went wrong.
>> That is... IF you can find them<<
I don’t need to find them. I trust that God Himself knows who he made an “eternal covenant” with. I trust He can pretty well tell who is and who isn’t and it’s not up to me.
Why isn’t there an effort underway to rebuild the Temple?
by Rabbi Naftali Silberberg
In Exodus1 it is said concerning the third Temple “the sanctuary which Your hands, O Lord, have established.”2 This is why the third temple will be everlasting for - unlike the first two temples which were built by Man - it will be built by G-d.
Maimonides writes3 that the messiah will rebuild the holy temple. (This is not a contradiction; whereas the structure itself will be built by G-d, certain elements of the temple will be added by the messiah).
May we merit seeing this with our eyes very soon!
It's not up to you, yet you told me to "tell them".
This mental confusion is called, "cognitive dissonance".
Now stop letting those pesky dispy facts get in the way of a perfectly good Scripture denial rant.
I would suggest the People at the Temple Institute would disagree with that statement.
Temple Insitute http://www.templeinstitute.org/main.htm Statement of Principles
The Temple Institute is dedicated to all aspects of the Divine commandment for Israel to build a house for G-d's presence, the Holy Temple, on Mount Moriah in Jerusalem. The range of the Institute's involvement with this concept includes education, research, activism, and actual preparation. Our goal is firstly, to restore Temple consciousness and reactive these "forgotten" commandments. We hope that by doing our part, we can participate in the process that will lead to the Holy Temple becoming a reality once more.
Why build the Temple? Why this fuss over an ancient, seemingly outdated concept? What relationship does the Holy Temple have to our world today? The people of Israel have lived without a Temple for nearly 2,000 years, and seem to be doing fine without one. We don't seem to need it, and G-d certainly doesn't, so why think about rebuilding?
202 Biblical Commandments
The Jewish people accepted the "Yoke of Heaven," the structure of their relationship with the Creator and their spiritual responsibility, at the Mount Sinai revelation. This relationship is based on Israel's acceptance and fulfillment of the Torah's 613 Divine commandments. But in fact, fully one third - 202 of these commandments - are totally dependent on the existence of the Holy Temple for their fulfillment. But what is our attitude regarding these commandments? Do we think of them as inactive, dormant, dead? Do we believe that they are no longer applicable? Do we perhaps relegate them to that nebulous time of messianic redemption; that they will only be activated in the future with the coming of the messiah?
The Torah's commandments are eternal, for now and forever
Nothing can be further from the truth. Maimonides teaches (Sefer Igeret Ha'Shmad) that the performance of all the commandments are not dependent on the coming of the messiah. They are to be fulfilled at all times. G-d does not change His mind, or nullify any of the commandments included in the Torah, which were given once, for all time. In lieu of Temple service, we may observe various "remembrances" of these commandments, but that is all they are - merely gestures of nostalgia.
Fish out of water But we fool ourselves if we think that the state of Judaism today, without the Temple, is normal. On the contrary, we are like fish out of water. If 1/3 of all the Torah's commandments center on the Temple, it would seem that Biblical observance in the Temple's absence is but a skeleton of what G-d had intended it to be.
Our spiritual alienation
Sadly, much of our contemporary attitudes regarding the Holy Temple are a reflection of our own spiritual bankruptcy and alienation from the spiritual underpinnings of true Torah knowledge and faith. The Holy Temple was not some magnificent building. It was the direct arena for our direct relationship with G-d; the unfolding saga of man's greatest spiritual longing. It was a place where heaven and earth met; a meeting place for man and G-d.
Our relationship with G-d
At this one place on earth, unlike any other, the one place that the Creator Himself chose to rest His presence, the rectification of man's connection with G-d takes place. All people were able to come to the Temple to partake in this direct and fulfilling bond; to recharge their spiritual batteries and come away with a renewed sense of purpose and being.
A new era of universal harmony
Every prophet of Israel, without exception, prophesized that the Temple would be rebuilt, ushering in a new era of universal harmony and peace unparalleled in the history of man. Thus, the "movement" to rebuild the Holy Temple is not new. It was born almost 2,000 years ago, at the moment of the Second Temple's destruction. For when the Holy Temple stood in Jerusalem, it was the soul of Jewish people... and the entire world... as we believe it will be once again.
The rebuilding of the Holy Temple: In our time?
The reality of the Jewish experience means that the Temple will be rebuilt. Many people who visit the Temple Institute are incredulous and cannot help but exclaim: "Do you really think that you will live to see the Holy Temple rebuilt?" The answer to that question is of little importance. Let us rather recall that Jewish history has a trajectory, which began when the patriarch Abraham smashed his father's idols. That trajectory has spanned the millennia, and it is obvious that we are rapidly approaching climactic times, in which the Holy Temple will once again become the focal point for mankind's spiritual focus. Whether this transpires in our generation or not, we can still choose to be active participants, and not simply spectators, in G-d's bold plan for the Redemption of Israel and all humanity.
>>This mental confusion is called, “cognitive dissonance”.
Actually I didn’t change my mind or try to confuse at all. I told you, after you said the third Temple will not be built, that you should tell the Jews who fully expect to rebuild it that there will be no third Temple.
I didn’t tell you to “tell them” about the subject of who the true Jewish people are, I made that comment about the building of the Temple. I’m not the one mixing things.
:)
Can you cite any Torah authorities outside of the Temple Institute who support their activities?
Rabbinical Council of America? Agudath Israel of America or of Israel? Shas? Chief Rabbis of Israel?
>>Now stop letting those pesky dispy facts get in the way of a perfectly good Scripture denial rant.<<
It’s almost like talking to libs but I ain’t gonna say that out loud. ;-)
Why? Are more required for the work to be progressing? My point was made that work and planning is going on re the rebuilding of the Temple. Would you say that all denominations should be involved for something to be correct or done in Christendom?
I can say I’m seriously getting ready for my inauguration as President of the United States, but unless the Electoral College and the House of Representatives agree with me, at best I’m just educating myself, not becoming President. Everyone’s opinion is NOT equal.
With about 80% of all furnishings and artifacts completed it’s a rather serious National effort.
80% would be pure bunk.
Any idea how many priests and levites would be necessary, all with ritual cleansing and clothing needs? Mountains of wood. Silos of incense. Stockyards and veterinarians. Plumbing facilities for a slaughterhouse. A chamber of stone for judges. A civil war with secular Jews. Agreement among rabbinic authorities.
Manufacturing museum-quality pieces for tourists and fund-raising isn’t the real deal.
There’s a reason why the messiah is necessary for the rebuilt Temple.
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