Mormon Lies that can blind us

Mormon Chapbook ^ | Mike Tea

[delacoert]

In our conversations with Mormons we are bound to test what they believe about key issues and how they stand on things we might have heard about Mormonism. It pays to know that it is easy for a Mormon, on the pretext of giving you “milk before meat”, or simply because they don’t know their own faith very well, to be disingenuous in their answers. Here are a few typical “answers” on key subjects:

GOD

“We believe in the same God as you. ‘We believe in God the eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost’(Mormon First Article of Faith)” 

Although it has the appearance of a Trinitarian confession this does not come close to what Mormons believe about God. Joseph Smith, the founding prophet of Mormonism, said: 

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man…It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God…and that he was once a man like us…and you have got to learn to be Gods yourselves…the same as all Gods before you." (King Follett Discourse)

THE BIBLE

“Of course we trust and believe in the Bible” This, again, is a disingenuous answer. The Eighth Article of faith of Mormonism declares: 

"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God" 

The Bible is the only book of Scripture in Mormonism that is regarded as unreliable and its content is only respected so far as it appears to confirm the Mormon message. The message of Mormonism, such as their teaching on the nature of God, is brought to the Bible and if the Bible does not agree then it is the Bible that is considered wanting. While the Book of Mormon is considered the book of the restoration the Bible is regarded as the book of the apostasy.

OTHER CHURCHES

“We are Christians and respect other Christian denominations. We would never attack other churches as some attack us.” The Book of Mormon however declares: 

"Behold, there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth" (1 Nephi 14:10) 

There doesn’t appear to be any room for “other denominations” here and it might be worthwhile asking a Mormon which church they think you belong to. Certainly, anyone who has studied Mormonism knows that it is founded on harsh and uncompromising attacks on other churches. In his official history Joseph Smith uncompromisingly declared that God said of other churches:

“All their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: ‘the draw near with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.’” (Joseph Smith History, 1:19)

It seems Mormonism “doesn’t play well with others” despite their protestations to the contrary.

POLYGAMY

“Of course Mormons aren’t polygamists. We renounced polygamy in the nineteenth century and those who practice it today have nothing to do with us.” 

Two things worthy of note: 

1. Polygamy is still an integral part of Mormon Scripture. Mormons might argue that the practice of circumcision is part of Christian Scripture but is no longer practised. This is comparing apples and oranges because circumcision was a mark of the Old Covenant, which was superseded by baptism under the New Covenant in Jesus Christ. Polygamy, however, is taught as an eternal principle and regarded as the order of heaven. It is described as the “new and everlasting covenant”: 

"And again, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant…they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation. Then shall they be gods." (D&C 132) 

The reference to Mormons becoming gods by the “new and everlasting covenant” is instructive in light of what we have already seen of the teaching that men become gods. While the familiar Salt Lake City Mormons do not currently practise polygamy, it seems it will be reinstated, if not in this life then in glory.

It seems that the polygamist groups currently denounced and disowned by SLC Mormons are just keeping the practice warm for the day when all Mormons return to the principle. Meanwhile it is not uncommon for a SLC Mormon male to be “sealed” to more than one wife in the next life while practicing monogamy in this.

It does seem less than honest to deny liability when the very texts that teach polygamy still form an integral part of Mormon “Scripture”.

There is a curious irony in the fact that the familiar SLC Mormons have much in common with breakaway polygamist groups and yet they deny any family connections, instead trying at every turn to associate with the Evangelical Christian Church, with which Mormons have nothing in common.

[Elsie]

How many ‘Christians’ still believe Jesus was a ‘Christian’?

I don't...

[Elsie]

But all the pictures of Jesus that I saw growing up portrayed him as anything but a Middle Eastern Jewish man.

You should SEE all the 'pictures' that MORMON kids are EXPOSED to in THEIR 'growing up'!

[Elsie]

If I knew nothing of Christianity and someone was telling me about how this guy was tortured and killed to make some god happy and then they get together and have a drink and a cracker and think it is flesh and blood and it makes us all better people to eat this flesh and drink this blood I would think...

That's what happens when people tell falsehoods about GOD.

[UCANSEE2]

May I point out that most Christian believers 'know' that Jesus had blonde hair and blue eyes.

I guess I should have been more careful how I said it. The 'point' wasn't that he had blonde hair and blue eyes. That was an 'exaggeration'. The point was that everyone has a different 'picture' of what Jesus looked like. Even though 'everyone' has different 'details', the 'concept' of JESUS is the same.

Even though we have different 'versions' of the Bible, the concepts are the same.

NOW. The ORIGINAL point I was defending was about the MORMONS and JESUS. I had always thought the Mormons had the same beliefs as Christians, and the difference was in the details.

According to DELACOERT, they do not. I understand and accept that.

As far as Joseph Smith and his various pictures, I would say there are as many 'different' concepts of Joseph Smith, as there are of Jesus of Nazareth.

WHY? Maybe because people like to see what they want to see.

Here is one of the more common pictures of Jesus. Doesn't look like a dark-skinned swarthy Middle Eastern Jew to me.

[svcw]

Neither does he. Point is middle eastern peoples come in all shades.

[UCANSEE2]

I'm sure quite a lot of them don't even know they CAN!

That's understandable for noobs. Not for long time posters.

It doesn't 'prove' anything, but it is something to consider when confronting an objectionable poster.

[UCANSEE2]

You should SEE all the 'pictures' that MORMON kids are EXPOSED to in THEIR 'growing up'!

I think I have. Somebody posted a ton of them on this thread.

": )

[Safrguns]

lol... thanks Elsie...

yeah.... looks the same to me! (not)

favorite quote:

When asked ‘Will everybody be damned, but Mormons’? [Smith replied] ‘Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness.”

Yet we are told that they don’t teach works based salvation?

[Terry Mross]

I think that’s what I said: once.

[rickomatic]

Nope.

[UCANSEE2]

Is that Jesus?

[Hoodat]

Can you feel the FEAR?

Coming from you, yes.

[Elsie]

Thanks for the response. I'm not trying to argue the details of the Bible or any particular Christian religion, especially since the details are not the important thing.

Ah...

But the DEVIL's in 'em!

[Elsie]

Thanks for the response. I'm not trying to argue the details of the Bible or any particular Christian religion...

Oh?

Then WHY are you even in a RELIGIOUS discussion?

[Elsie]

... One Mormon blogger writes, “When I was a missionary,
the church’s Official Missionary Guide instructed
missionaries to avoid providing direct answers or
solutions to investigators’ questions or concerns.”
On his mission, he “fell back on rhetorical tricks
or even outright denials.

I can do better than this!!!

 

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Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

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Timeline...    Subject...

 

0:59            "Anti-Mormons..."

1:16            "ATTACK the faith you have..."

2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."

3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

[Elsie]

 

the story(s) of the first vision of Joseph Smith

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 FIRST VISION:VARIOUS VERSIONS OF VISIONS  

Version Number  When  Published  Brief Description	Age  Year	Pillar   of  light	No. of  Person-  ages	Father  Present	Son  Present	Question:  Join What  Sect?	Remarks-References
1. Official version,  written 1838,  first  Published 1842  (There are minor differences between the various source references, Ensign  Jan 1985, page 14)	14   1820	yes	2	yes  Both spoke	yes	Join none	Lucy, Hyrum, Samuel, Sophronia join the Presbyterian Church - JSH, pages 49-50, 1981 edition; Times & Seasons, March, April 1842; Ensign Jan. 1985, page 14; Joseph Smith's First Vision by Milton V. Backamn, Bookcraft, 1971, 1980, Appendix C, page 160f
2. Dictated by Smith to F.G. Williams, Summer to Nov. 1832	14 or 15	yes	1	no	yes  Saw Lord, He  "spoke"	No question, told "None doeth good", sins forgiven	Joseph Smith's First Vision, Appendix A, page 155f
3. Written by Smith, his 1832 diary, in his own hand	15	yes	1	no	yes  Saw the Lord Jesus  Christ	No question,  told sins forgiven, all do no good	Ensign, Dec. 1984, pages 24-26; ibid, Jan. 1985, page 11
4. Smith's diary of 1835, recorded by Warren Cowdery, Nov. 9, 1835, conversation of Smith with Joshua	About  14	yes	One, then another like unto first	?	?  Second spoke, saw  many angels	No questions, told sins forgiven, Jesus is Son	Joseph Smith's First Vision, Appen. B
5. Letter form Smith to John Wentworth, editor of Chicago Democrat	none	no	2	?  They spoke	?	No Question	Joseph Smith's  First Vision, Appendix D; Ensign, Jan 1985, page 16; Times & Seasons, Vol  3, pages 706-707, March 1, 1842
6. Early church leaders Brigham Young, G.A.Smith, John Taylor	15	no	1  Saw an angel, and asked the angel	no	no	Join none	See Journal of Discourses,   2:17; 18:239; 13:77, 78; 20:167; 12:333, 334.

 

web/firvista.html 
5-11-95, Rev 8-8-98

 

John Farkas,     Berean Christian Ministries, P.O. Box 1091, Webster, N.Y. 14580

[Elsie]

Robert millet is a HUGE proponent of it.

NOoooo!!!!!!

Say it isn't TRUE!!!

[Elsie]

 

I remember that tithing and the WOW were never brought up when I was on mission.

 

I can fix that WOW right NOW!

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THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 89

 

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.

 

1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.

 

  1 A ^aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the ^aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and ^bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

  3 Given for a principle with ^apromise, adapted to the capacity of the ^bweak and the weakest of all ^csaints, who are or can be called saints.

  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of ^aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of ^bconspiring men in the last days, I have ^cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

  5 That inasmuch as any man ^adrinketh ^bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, ^apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

  7 And, again, ^astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

  8 And again, tobacco is not for the ^abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome ^aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with ^aprudence and ^bthanksgiving.

  12 Yea, ^aflesh also of ^bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used ^csparingly;

  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be ^aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or ^bfamine.

  14 All ^agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

  15 And ^athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

  16 All grain is good for the ^afood of man; as also the ^bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ^ashall receive ^bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;

  19 And shall ^afind ^bwisdom and great ^ctreasures of ^dknowledge, even hidden treasures;

  20 And shall ^arun and not be ^bweary, and shall walk and not faint.

  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the ^adestroying angel shall ^bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

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The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[Elsie]

 

Nana; how good can it be WITHOUT the Wonderful MTC to give the background music?

 

 

 

Praise to the Man!

 

 

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

 

 

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assasins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

 

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

 

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know 'Brother Joseph' again.

 

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

[Elsie]

Lay off the Mormons please.

Ok; I will; but MORMONism will STILL get the LIGHT of day!

Oh; BTW - could you get the MORMONs to lay off CHRISTIANITY a while?

They've been BASHING it since the 1830's...