Posted on 12/11/2010 11:46:45 AM PST by delacoert
In our conversations with Mormons we are bound to test what they believe about key issues and how they stand on things we might have heard about Mormonism. It pays to know that it is easy for a Mormon, on the pretext of giving you “milk before meat”, or simply because they don’t know their own faith very well, to be disingenuous in their answers. Here are a few typical “answers” on key subjects: “We believe in the same God as you. ‘We believe in God the eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost’(Mormon First Article of Faith)” “Of course we trust and believe in the Bible” This, again, is a disingenuous answer. The Eighth Article of faith of Mormonism declares: “We are Christians and respect other Christian denominations. We would never attack other churches as some attack us.” The Book of Mormon however declares: “All their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: ‘the draw near with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.’” (Joseph Smith History, 1:19) It seems Mormonism “doesn’t play well with others” despite their protestations to the contrary. “Of course Mormons aren’t polygamists. We renounced polygamy in the nineteenth century and those who practice it today have nothing to do with us.” It seems that the polygamist groups currently denounced and disowned by SLC Mormons are just keeping the practice warm for the day when all Mormons return to the principle. Meanwhile it is not uncommon for a SLC Mormon male to be “sealed” to more than one wife in the next life while practicing monogamy in this. It does seem less than honest to deny liability when the very texts that teach polygamy still form an integral part of Mormon “Scripture”. There is a curious irony in the fact that the familiar SLC Mormons have much in common with breakaway polygamist groups and yet they deny any family connections, instead trying at every turn to associate with the Evangelical Christian Church, with which Mormons have nothing in common. GOD
Although it has the appearance of a Trinitarian confession this does not come close to what Mormons believe about God. Joseph Smith, the founding prophet of Mormonism, said:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man…It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God…and that he was once a man like us…and you have got to learn to be Gods yourselves…the same as all Gods before you." (King Follett Discourse) THE BIBLE
"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God"
The Bible is the only book of Scripture in Mormonism that is regarded as unreliable and its content is only respected so far as it appears to confirm the Mormon message. The message of Mormonism, such as their teaching on the nature of God, is brought to the Bible and if the Bible does not agree then it is the Bible that is considered wanting. While the Book of Mormon is considered the book of the restoration the Bible is regarded as the book of the apostasy. OTHER CHURCHES
"Behold, there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth" (1 Nephi 14:10)
There doesn’t appear to be any room for “other denominations” here and it might be worthwhile asking a Mormon which church they think you belong to. Certainly, anyone who has studied Mormonism knows that it is founded on harsh and uncompromising attacks on other churches. In his official history Joseph Smith uncompromisingly declared that God said of other churches: POLYGAMY
Two things worthy of note:
1. Polygamy is still an integral part of Mormon Scripture. Mormons might argue that the practice of circumcision is part of Christian Scripture but is no longer practised. This is comparing apples and oranges because circumcision was a mark of the Old Covenant, which was superseded by baptism under the New Covenant in Jesus Christ. Polygamy, however, is taught as an eternal principle and regarded as the order of heaven. It is described as the “new and everlasting covenant”:
"And again, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant…they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation. Then shall they be gods." (D&C 132)
The reference to Mormons becoming gods by the “new and everlasting covenant” is instructive in light of what we have already seen of the teaching that men become gods. While the familiar Salt Lake City Mormons do not currently practise polygamy, it seems it will be reinstated, if not in this life then in glory.
bttp
Which of THESE portraits of Joseph Smith hang in the living rooms of your fellow mormons?
My fellow Inmans and myself do not believe that Jesus was blond and blue-eyed...which Jesus portrait is hanging in the living rooms of your fellow mormons? This one?
Not totally correct. Jesus died for sins, just that you have to become sinless inorder to qualify for that grace first. (MORONI 10:32 & ALMA 11:37) There are also some sins that aren't covered. Yes, they believe he rose again, but that now he is restricted to a physical body of flesh and blood.
I did not know that
These reviled 'antimormon' threads will educate you on these things that mormonism generally doesn't want the general public to realize.
"Lying for the Lord"? Yeah, that is taught in the 6-7 year old primary class.
Pathetic really. You must have got the advanced version because in the 40+ years of attending Mormon church religiously (pardon the pun)I never heard any phrase that could even be construed as such.
You sure it was a Mormon church? .....
No, it was taught in the adult classes. They don’t use the term, but they do teach the principle. Google it. And yes, it was the LDS church (4 different wards) and BYU. Robert millet is a HUGE proponent of it.
And you are right that it is pathetic that they lie to potential converts and outsiders. Why the Hell can’t they just tell the truth? Oh yeah, because no one would join.
Want me to post quotes from your leaders? I can.
BTW, Smith also lied about polygamy as did others. D&C 132 wasn’t canonized until the late 1800’s, after they removed the D&C section that DENOUNCED polygamy. More evidence of lying for the Lord.
Christians don’t need to lie and we never lie to new Christians or outsiders. We don’t need to...the LDS however apparently do.
The missionaries also lied (or failed to mention) MANY doctrines during the discussions prior to my joining. Again, lying for the Lord.
It is the Mormon cult that is pathetic.
On the other string I wrote:
I remember that tithing and the WOW were never brought up when I was on mission. It was always brought up after baptism in an, “Oh By the Way” did you know you need to pay that ten percent and you cannot drink coffee anymore?
It’s tough for salesmen (missionaries) to always tell all the truth when you’re trying so hard to make a deal. That pressure on the young missionaries is overwhelming to produce, produce, produce! And they’re on top of you virtually every day. It’s enough to make you want to quit the church. LOL
Car salesmen never tell all the hidden costs. Get the signature on that line brother, then we’ll tell you the rest.
Please post away if it makes you feel good. Maybe your sidekicks can post away as they see fit also.
Question for you or any of your sidekicks: As a Mormon did any of you ever lie about Mormon history or Mormon teachings?
Hoodat equates critiquing with "hate."
Since he just bashed Delacoert as "hate"(ful), by his own personal standards, his bashing of Delacoert = "hate" by Hoodat directed toward him.
(That's what's interesting about some of these slams...once you see a person's personal standards...it comes back to point a finger @ 'em)
The giving of that power and glory to Joey Smith...
Isn’t he dead?
_____________________________________
Praise to the man is sung in the4 morm on religious ceremonies due to his “dying for the mormons”
Check out the words...
Its the shedding Joey Smith’s blood the mormons give thanks for in that song...
Not the blood of Jesus...
Its blasphemeous...
Here ya go...
Hold yer upchuck till the end...
From Wiki - “Praise to the Man” (originally entitled “Joseph Smith”) was a poem written as a tribute to Joseph Smith, Jr. by Latter Day Saint leader and hymn writer William W. Phelps. The poem was composed soon after Smith’s death, and was later set to music and adopted as a hymn of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). It was first published anonymously in the church newspaper Times and Seasons in August 1844, approximately one month after Smith was killed.[1] The hymn is still used within the LDS Church and is hymn #27 in the current LDS Church hymnal.
Lyrics from A Collection of Sacred Hymns for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, 1845
Hymn 103 P.M. JOSEPH SMITH. (Words by W W Phelps)
1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah.
Jesus’ anointed, “that Prophet and Seer,”
Blessed to open the last dispensation;
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.
CHORUS.
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven,
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain,
Mingling with God’s he can plan for his brethren,
Death cannot conquer the hero again.
2. Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest is his ever great name;
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Stain Illinois[4], while the earth lauds his fame.
Hail to the Prophet, &c.
3. Great is his glory, and endless his priesthood,
Ever and ever the keys he will hold;
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.
Hail to the Prophet, &c.
4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man!
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice,
Millions shall know “brother Joseph” again.
Hail to the Prophet, &c.
Lyrics from Relief Society Song Book, 1919, no. 33
1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus anointed “that Prophet and Seer”—
Blessed to open the last dispensation;
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.
Refrain.
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain;
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.
2. Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr,
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins;
Stain Illinois, while the earth lauds his fame.
3. Great is his glory, and endless his Priesthood,
Ever and ever the keys he will hold;
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the Prophets of old.
4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man;
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice;
Millions shall know “brother Joseph” again.
Believe me, nothing you and your holier-than-thou compatriots say can penetrate my very thick skin. I just wonder makes you people tick. Mormons are hardly what’s wrong with the world. Very few Mormons make the the most wanted lists much less engage in terrorism. Lay off the Mormons please.
Lying from the top of Mormonism....(Mormon Prophet Gordon Hinckley 1985)
Lying for the Lord
Shortly after the first bomb went off, Hofmann called Hugh Pinnock to inform him of Christensen’s death and to assure Pinnock that he was still willing to go through with the McLellin deal and was arranging to pay off the bank loan. After the second bomb went off, Mark calmly met with LDS Apostle Dallin Oaks in his church office and informed him that the bombings must relate to failed business dealings of Christensen and Sheets and had no connection to Mark’s documents. Later Pinnock and Oaks met with Gordon B. Hinckley to discuss how to proceed with the McLellin transaction.[35] The day after the explosion that injured Mark Hofmann, Elder Pinnock was interviewed about the crimes:
Police Detective Don Bell interviewed him at 1:12 in the afternoon on October 17, the day after the bomb exploded in Hofmann’s car.
“Elder Pinnock, this is the deal,” Bell began, notebook in hand. “This is a homicide investigation. Do you know Mr. Hofmann?”
Pinnock paused and reflected a moment. “No, I don’t believe I do.”[36]
When local news station KSL-TV, owned by the LDS Church, accurately reported that the LDS Church was involved in arranging document deals and illegal loans, the church leaders demanded a retraction. Reporter Jack Ford complained to his boss:
“The Church is upset because we [KSL-TV] said they helped arrange a loan. Well, they did! They say it was an individual, not the Church, but that’s baloney. It may have been an individual who placed the call, but he was a Church official, sitting in his Church office, on Church time, using a Church phone, and he did it for the . . . benefit of the Church. Nobody else wanted that McLellin Collection except the Church. And the Nova Scotia mission president doesn’t collect documents. He was just a big-bucks guy who said ‘If you need help, I’ll help you out.’ If the Church says they weren’t helping arrange any buyers for anything, how do you explain the fact that the Church volunteered to get an armored car to go down to Texas and pick the Collection up?”[37]
When LDS Apostle Gordon B. Hinckley was interviewed by County Prosecuting Attorneys Bob Stott and David Biggs about his multiple dealings with Mark Hofmann, he tried to hide his association with Mark:
Stott and Biggs shifted uneasily in their chairs. With all the time in between to recollect those meetings, he still couldn’t remember a thing.
“Was he ever in your office?” Stott asked.
“Probably,” said Hinckley.
“Probably!” thought Biggs. Now, he was even forgetting what he had admitted in the press conference. . . .
Surely he remembered the morning, only days before the bombings, when Hofmann came to tell him the Kinderhook plates “might be available for the right price”? He did remember the Kinderhook plates?
“I don’t know a whole lot about them,” Hinckley said dryly.
Biggs thought, This is Hinckley. He’s telling us he doesn’t know a whole lot about the Kinderhook plates. My God, even I have learned a little about them in this investigation. He has to know what they’re about. . . .
Stott and Biggs pressed. Surely he knew that Steve Christensen had been called by Church officials at all hours of the night to go out and find Hofmann and get him to repay the First Interstate loan?
Hinckley shrugged his shoulders. . . . Hinckley could recall nothing. . . .
After another hour of evasions, memory lapses, and sermonettes, Biggs lost his patience. “President Hinckley. This has been in the news—people have died—isn’t there any way we can get some information about your meetings with Hofmann?”[38]
The interview then focused on the upcoming preliminary hearing.
When Bob Stott finally worked up the courage to talk about Hinckley’s testimony at the upcoming preliminary hearing, [LDS attorney] Wilford Kirton jumped in.
“President Hinckley doesn’t wish to testify at the hearing. We think it would be in everyone’s best interests to not have him testify.”
Someone suggested that he would have to testify at trial.
“You don’t understand,” said Kirton imperiously. “President Hinckley does not wish to testify at the hearing, at the trial, at anything.”[39]
Hinckley then explained to Stott:
“This isn’t that significant, as it relates to Church matters,” he said softly. “It’s the Church that matters. You have to consider the Church first. I don’t wish to testify.” . . .
“I think it would be in the best interests of the Church,” he added in the same mellow voice, “if you simply dismissed the charge.”
Dismiss the charge? Biggs was aghast. It took them a moment to realize that he meant only that Stott should dismiss the charge on the Stowell letter, which would let Hinckley off the hook as far as testifying at the preliminary hearing. . . .
But Bob Stott wasn’t ready to do that. “We are not going to drop the charge,” he said after he regained his composure. But he did have a compromise suggestion. “If we can get the defense to stipulate as to your testimony, we won’t have to call you.”[40]
When comparing the notes of the investigators of Hofmann’s crimes, there is no doubt that Gordon B. Hinckley was lying to them.
[35] Naifeh and Smith, Mormon Murders, pp. 286-289.
[36] Ibid., pp. 300-301.
[37] Ibid., p. 475.
[38] Ibid., pp. 434-435.
[39] Ibid., p. 436.
[40] Ibid., p. 437.
http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no115.htm#lying
Salt Lake City Messenger No. 115 October 2010
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Very few Mormons make the the most wanted lists much less engage in terrorism.
_______________________________________
Yes but that very few mormons...Brighasm Young and his cohorts...did engage in the first 9/11 acts of terrorism on American soil...
9/11 1857
The watch list in those days was a list of places that wagon trains should avoid due to danger from maraunding religious fanatics...the mormons...
Then there was the Big Bear River Massacre ...more acts of terrorism committed by the mormons
The Circleville Massacre... more acts of terrorism...the mormons cut off their victims heads in this one
and so on...
Who most? Source?
Love does not operate out of fear.
(Which, is of course, why the Bible says to "fear God." I s'pose that's yet another Hoodat 3:16, eh?)
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