Posted on 11/30/2010 9:14:06 AM PST by greyfoxx39
"No longer members of any legally recognized religion, Mormons organized a focus group to re-brand their identity. So they called around to some California railroad lobbyists, New York ad-men, and brainstormed and out-paradigm-shifted a totally innovational re-branding of Mormonism.
"The Trustee thus offered bonds to Eastern bankers with the promised collateral being the Mormons themselves."The Mormon people, you see, had untapped value: a sense of community, a uniquely productive work ethic, and best of all, a built-in propensity to be obedient to authorities.
In this month (June 1829) I was baptized, confirmed, and ordained an Elder in the Church of Christ by Bro. Joseph Smith. Previous to this, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery had baptized, confirmed and ordained each other to the office of an Elder in the Church of Christ. I was the third person baptized into the church. In August, 1829, we began to preach the gospel of Christ. The following six Elders had then been ordained: Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Peter Whitmer, Samuel H. Smith, Hyrum Smith and myself. The Book of Mormon was still in the hands of the printer, but my brother, Christian Whitmer, had copied from the manuscript the teachings and doctrine of Christ, being the things which we were commanded to preach. We preached, baptized and confirmed members into the Church of Christ, from August, 1829, until April 6th, 1830, being eight months in which time we had proceeded rightly; the offices in the church being Elders, Priests and Teachers.
Now, when April 6, 1830, had come, we had then established three branches of the Church of Christ, in which three branches were about seventy members: One branch was at Fayette, N. Y.; one at Manchester, N. Y., and one at Colesville, Pa. It is all a mistake about the church being organized on April 6, 1830, as I will show. We were as fully organizedspirituallybefore April 6th as we were on that day. The reason why we met on that day was this; the world had been telling us that we were not a regularly organized church, and we had no right to officiate in the ordinance of marriage, hold church property, etc., and that we should organize according to the laws of the land. On this account we met at my fathers house in Fayette, N. Y., on April 6, 1830, to attend to this matter of organizing according to the laws of the land; you can see this from Sec. 17 Doctrine and Convenants: the church was organized on April 6th agreeable to the laws of our country. (An Address to All Believers in Christ, pg 32-34)Indeed, the Lord defined His church in D&C 10:67, showing that it was already in existence at least since 1828. There was no need to organize something that was already extant. Joseph's act of registering with the state was a slow poison that proved fatal to his creation sixty years later.
I don’t see any problem with the LDS church being incorporated. Yes, it’s a legal structure set up the laws of man, but the Church operates in the secular environment and has to deal with the laws of the lands in which it is organized. That doesn’t in my mind invalidate in any way its divine mandate.
We sustain the members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as “prophets seers and revelators”. So there are 15 right now who are ministering simultaneously.
The church in Jerusalem as well as the one alledged to be in America had 12 apostles.
If the church is true, what are the three most significant prophecies Monson has made?
Come now! You know those are secrets only the initiates are allowed to hear ... just other mystery religions.
Well I would hope that you would.
NONE of whom have spoken as a Scripture-producing "prophet," right?
When's the last time one of your "apostles" or "First Presidency" counselors ever spoken as a "prophet" in having his words canonized as "Scripture?"
The church in Jerusalem as well as the one alledged to be in America had 12 apostles. [Godzilla]
So the Lds church has a "prophet" + 12 "apostles" and 2 "First President counselors." 15 total
During the supposed "American" rounds of Jesus in the Book of Mormon, the supposed "church of Jesus Christ" had Jesus + 23-24 "apostles" -- 24-25 after Saul converted to Paul -- and no "First President Counselors." 25-26 total
Who authorized the reduction, Normandy?
If the Lds church is supposed to be a "restoration" of the original church, who ordered those sustained to be permanently removed from the Middle East? Or South or Central America?
What's the "magical" number about "15" within a Quorum? Why not 16? Or 13?
Where is Jesus Christ on the hierarchy? Why has He been removed from His Hebrews 1:1-2 post?
Where's the apostle John? (Isn't He still alive, per the D&C?)
Who authorized him to be cut from the Mormon apostle list? When was that done? Did Mormonism's leaders have the supposed "authority" to do that?
Or is it that Joseph Smith lied? And that the apostle John's life has been transferred to heaven -- and he's no longer here?
We sustain all the Apostles (First Presidency and Quorum of the 12) as prophets, seers, and revelators, and we believe they can and do reveal the will of the Lord to the people of earth. Just because the things that they say are not included in our books of scripture, doesn’t mean they are not speaking the will of God.
The majority of the words of Christ and the early Apostles never made it into the Bible.
For the record there is no “magic number”. We have had presidents of the church who have had more than two counselors.
As for John the Revelator, I am sure he is still an Apostle, fulfilling a unique mission for God.
A simple solution:
Cut the article, paste it in a word procesor, and make all the text the same.
Takes way less than 30 seconds to do.
Norm, I understand what you're saying...I've had Mormons say to me, "You don't understand. Even what the prophet and apostles say at a General Conference is revealing God's will."
Here's the "rub," Normandy: Surely, you've seen us cite Lds past "apostles" and "prophets" left and right...some of it in the Journal of Discourses. Some of it stated at General Conferences (many of the references of the Mormon "White Horse prophesy," for example, was mentioned in 20th century General Conferences between WWI and the early 1960s).
Numerous times when we've cited those phrases, we get Mormons left and right poo-pooing those earlier comments from their leads as not worthy of respect, let alone deemed "the will of the Lord."
We're still waiting for Mormons to stop trying to have their cake & eat it, too...It seems whenever a contemporary sustained general authority says something at a General Conference, it's the "Lord's will." But if a General Authority has a tombstone with his name on it, it's...
"Suspect"
--Not "the Lord's will"
-- "We don't believe that (anymore)"
-- etc.
There's absolutely ZILCHO consistency on the part of Lds FReepers on this.
The light at the end of the tunnel just likely is a TRAIN!
Get off at the next stop!
Another fantasy thread by the anti-Mormon activist gang on FR. /yawn |
I am pleased to offer my services for the Betterment of Mankind.
Please feel free to ask me ANYTHING and I'll sincerely post my link list again.
Remember...
I am normal too; and I am a MORMON!
Sincerely,
PD
Read the corporation charter; as it tells how the line of succession is going to work.
Horrible?
Yes; to a MORMON.
But not untrue; is it dear?
That it surely does!
The 'church' got a MANDATE from GOD in D&C 132 to adhere to the ETERNAL COVENANT of polygamy; but the 'church' is afraid of the GOVERNMENT that allows it to exist; so it threw it's GOD under the bus for the sake of keeping it's material things.
The leaders of this 'church' are spineless cowards.
Bull!
They ain't 'ministering' nuttin'!
They are BUSINESSmen: that's all!
bttt
Thanks for the interesting link.
He sounds like a pretty determined individual.....
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