Amazing that a "spokesman" can be more correct than early prophets.
Posted on 11/28/2010 12:27:04 AM PST by delacoert
We are earnestly seeking to explode the vicious principles of Joseph Smith, and those who practice the same abominations and whoredoms; which we verily know are not accordant and consonant with the principles of Jesus Christ and the Apostles; and for that purpose, and with that end in view, with an eye single to the glory of God, we have dared to gird on the armor, and with god at our head, we most solemnly and sincerely declare that the sword of truth shall not depart from the thigh, nor the buckler from the arm, until we can enjoy those glorious privileges which nature's God and our country's laws have guarantied to us--freedom of speech, the liberty of the press, and the right to worship God as seemeth us good.
We are aware, however, that we are hazarding every earthly blessing, particularly property, and probably life itself, in striking this blow at tyranny and oppression: yet notwithstanding, we most solemnly declare that no man, or set of men combined, shall, with impunity, violate obligations as sacred as many which have been violated, unless reason, justice and virtue have become ashamed and sought the haunts of the grave, though our lives be the forfeiture.
Many of us have sought a reformation in the church, without a public exposition of the enormities of crimes practiced by its leaders, thinking that if they would hearken to counsel, and shew fruit meet for repentance, it would be as acceptable with God, as though they were exposed to public gaze, "For the private path, the secret acts of men, If noble, far the noblest of their lives." but our petitions were treated with contempt; and in many cases the petitioner spurned from their presence, and particularly by Joseph, who would state that if he had sinned, and was guilty of the charges we would charge him with, he would not make acknowledgment, but would rather be damned; for it would detract from his dignity, and would consequently ruin and prove the overthrow of the Church. We would ask him on the other hand, if the overthrow of the Church was not inevitable, to which he often replies, that we would all go to Hell together, and convert it into a heaven, by casting the Devil out; and says he, Hell is by no means the place this world of fools suppose it to be, but on the contrary, it is quite an agreeable place; to which we would now reply, he can enjoy it if he is determined not to desist from his evil ways; but as for us, and ours, we will serve the Lord our God! It is absurd for men to assert that all is well, while wicked and corrupt men are seeking our destruction, by a perversion of sacred things; for all is not well, while whoredoms and all manner of abominations are practiced under the cloak of religion. Lo! the wolf is in the fold, arrayed in sheep's clothing, and is spreading death and devastation among the saints: and we say to the watchmen standing upon the walls, cry aloud and spare not, for the day of the Lord is at hand -- a day cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate.
Amazing that a "spokesman" can be more correct than early prophets.
Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
You seem to over look this....
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Or other LDS hymns
Lord, I Would Follow Thee
Savior, may I learn to love thee,
Walk the path that thou hast shown,
Pause to help and lift another,
Finding strength beyond my own.
Savior, may I learn to love thee-
Lord, I would follow thee.
Who am I to judge another
When I walk imperfectly?
In the quiet heart is hidden
Sorrow that the eye can’t see.
Who am I to judge another?
Lord, I would follow thee.
I would be my brother’s keeper;
I would learn the healer’s art.
To the wounded and the weary
I would show a gentle heart.
I would be my brother’s keeper-
Lord, I would follow thee.
Savior, may I love my brother
As I know thou lovest me,
Find in thee my strength, my beacon,
For thy servant I would be.
Savior, may I love my brother-
Lord, I would follow thee.
To say the LDS do not love their Savior is bearing false Witness greyfoxx39
Here are just a few hymns..
Mormon Women sing “Lord, I Would Follow Thee”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDE1nJnfEkA
More Holiness Give Me”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_vhY6ZMzPM&feature=related
Ill go where you want me to go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFQPciUtzQ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WzDpy9aayo&feature=related
Don't put words into my mouth in order to call me a liar.
Show me the song that mentions "soldiers of the cross" as I said.
"There aren't any "soldiers of the cross mentions in mormon hymnbooks"
Amazing that a "spokesman" can be more correct than early prophets. [GF]
LOL.
You've hit on the head, GF, as what Mormonism has come to: Spins by spinning tops in PR garb.
They are the "true" authority of the Lds "church" (Lds Inc.)
Corporate anything is anchored by PRism. Even more true with Lds, Inc.
Me? I think a lot of these PR types and PR Mormon apologists perhaps played too much UNO when they were younger and became too fixated with trump cards.
But that's only me.
Resty, you seemed to overlook all of the other Mormon saviors (see below). So when you say Lds love their savior, do they love all of them?
Can you pinpoint the Mormon hymns to these "saviors" for us?
Quote 1: “The work of saving the dead has practically been reserved for the dispensation of the fullness of times, when the Lord shall restore all things. It is, therefore, the duty of the Latter-day Saints to see that it is accomplished. WE cannot do it all at once, but will have the 1,000 years of the millennium to do it in. In that time the work must be done in behalf of the dead of the previous 6,000 years, for all who need it.” Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith (a different Joseph F. Smith than above), Doctrines of Salvation 2:166
Quote 2: " ...we are the only people that know how to save our progenitors, how to save ourselves, and how to save our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God;...we in fact are the saviours of the world..." (Lds "prophet" John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.163)
Quote 3: "... mortals have to be saviors on Mount Zion, acting by proxy for the dead." (LDS "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 325)
Quote 4: "We know something about our progenitors, and God has taught us how to be saviors for them by being baptized for them in the flesh, that they may live according to God in the Spirit.” (LDS "prophet" John Taylor, March 20,1870, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, 3/20/1870)
Quote 5: "He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. On every earth. How many earths are there?...Consequently every earth has its redeemer..." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 71, 1870)
So, Joseph Smith said he would convert "hell" into heaven, eh? And that Hell is by no means the place this world of fools suppose it to be, but on the contrary, it is quite an agreeable place. Hmm...
Well, that goes along well with what Smith often said:
Of all the teachings that was most horrific about what Smith taught, this was the topper...1844: "...you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves...going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one...from exaltation to exaltation, until you...are able to dwell... (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 346-347)
Well, "until you...are able to dwell" where? WHERE were the "ghost-lights" -- the demon-lights of Smith telling him where he & his followers would dwell??? It's right there on p. 347: "until you...are able to dwell in everlasting burnings." Whoaaa.
Smith must have felt the guilt gnawing at him from no assurance of forgiveness of sins; but he wouldn't let go of his "everlasting burnings" teaching late in life: "Those who have done wrong always have that wrong gnawing them. Immortality dwells in everlasting burnings." p. 367
These spirits craving their own "immortality" as false gods wouldn't let go of Smith...and actually occasionally told him the truth...as they did about "everlasting burnings"...They had the last laugh at Smith's -- and his followers' -- expense.
If you think I made up these quotes, look them up for yourselves...
Ask yourself...why would Joseph Smith, if he was a true "restored prophet" of God wait until the almost very end of his life to introduce the concept of "learning how to become gods yourselves" to people?
Ask yourself...why do I want to be linked with a religion that is more obsessed with the dead than ANY religion ever!!!
Run! Sprint!
That is how much you know Page 246 in our hymnal
http://lds.org/churchmusic/detailmusicPlayer/index.html?searchlanguage=1&searchcollection=1&searchseqstart=246&searchsubseqstart= &searchseqend=246&searchsubseqend=ZZZ
As sung by a LDS.
Onward Christian Soldiers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-14Kqsm_70
Discuss the issues all you want but do not make it personal.
Hi Resty - Placemarker
Your tagline and your posts have that mormonesque duplicity thing goin’ on, Resty! Perhaps if you put some raisins and honey in your morning oatmeal the bitterness would subside for you.
Golly gee MHGinTN it is anti LDS that is daily producing bitter fruits!:)
I have found that Mormons have a lot in common with other Christians. We have the Bible in common, a belief in Jesus Christ’s teachings, his divinity, resurrection, second coming, etc.
In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim,
“I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]
It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.
· Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]
· Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.
· Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.
· As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.
· Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]
· Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.
· Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.
· Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.
· Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith’s followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith’s own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.
· Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.
“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4]
Endnotes
[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”
Why did YOU leave PRESBYTERIANism?
Did the MORMONs have better dinners and get togethers?
(I know you what no clue as to what was supposedly wrong with their theology.)
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