Text Of The Nauvoo Expositor That Got Joe And Hyrum Killed

The Mormon Curtain ^ | Nov 18, 2010

[MHGinTN]

And just incase some readers missed the link, here it is again, withour empty Mormon editorializing.

[greyfoxx39]

I’m not going to say “whatever belief you have is false”

Every time a mormon missionary or member utters the words "Apostasy" or "Restoration" they are calling Christianity false. Sugar-coating the derision doesn't excuse it.

You are perfectly free to believe that "Having been given truth from God we are under obligation to share it. He is the one who wants the message proclaimed far and wide." That again, doesn't excuse the derision of Christianity handed down to this day by Joseph Smith and other leaders.

I personally heard this derision uttered from the podium by local leaders, and the claim of superiority in having the "one true church".

You DO believe that the mormon church is the "one and only true church of God", don't you?

[Godzilla]

I’m not going to say “whatever belief you have is false” because I have found that most religious people already believe in much truth. My approach as a Mormon is to explain that we have additional truth to add to that which you already have which can bring greater happiness.

Norm, this is nothing but parsing your words. What does your church teach about Christianity. In the 2009 edition of 'Gospel Principles' it still refers to Christianity as "False", a corruption of doctrine with predominantly "pagan beliefs". Doesn't leave much room for any 'truth' in the official eyes of mormonism. Particularly when the teaching by the missionaries get around to smith's claim that ALL their creeds are an abomination. A Christian who believes in a Triune God must discard that for mormon polytheism because to the mormon, that is false - whats being 'added to' here. The list can go on and on norm. There is not a single doctrine of mormonism that is compatable with anything in Christianity.

[Normandy]

I have found that Mormons have a lot in common with other Christians. We have the Bible in common, a belief in Jesus Christ’s teachings, his divinity, resurrection, second coming, etc.

Yes, we believe that some of the original teachings of Christ got lost or changed over time (as do protestants — hence the reformation), but that much that was true was preserved. We believe that he restoration of the gospel brought back authority and doctrine which was lost and the channel of revelation through prophets and apostles necessary for Christ to lead His Church aright.

[greyfoxx39]

We believe that he restoration of the gospel brought back authority and doctrine which was lost and the channel of revelation through prophets and apostles necessary for Christ to lead His Church aright.

President John Taylor taught: “The Lord will be king over all the earth, and all mankind literally under his sovereignty, and every nation under the heavens will have to acknowledge his authority, and bow to his scepter. Those who serve him in righteousness will have communications with God, and with Jesus; will have the ministering of angels, and will know the past, the present, and the future; and other people, who may not yield full obedience to his laws, nor be fully instructed in his covenants, will, nevertheless, have to yield full obedience to his government. For it will be the reign of God upon the earth, and he will enforce his laws, and command that obedience from the nations of the world which is legitimately his right” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor [2001], 225).

Taylor was speaking of mormon covenants and "serving in righteousness" as serving mormonism.

It appears that mormon belief is that the world will be ruled, "governed" according to the membership in the mormon church.

How convenient that "Yes, we believe that some of the original teachings of Christ got lost or changed over time"...that particular "teaching" got lost or changed, and was "restored" to ONLY benefit mormonism.

[greyfoxx39]

Ping to 125

[Normandy]

When Jesus returns to earth and establishes His kingdom here I have no doubt that all who are on the earth will be obliged to acknowledge His authority.

[restornu]

No I did not miss your spam....

What that man was doing is what so many here do and like our constitution those who do not learn will reap outer darkness.

This is what I do know no matter what faith anyone is on earth the Lord loves all His children, He knows the hearts and minds of all of us.

All those who choose walk close to the light of the Lord striving according to the best of their knowledge and abilities that they are born with, will be saved.

I have been witness to many times by the power of the Holy Ghost of those of other faiths or independent believers that are striving to walk in the Lord light.

There was and are a few left on Free Republic that I have been touched by and they have express that the unchristian behavior that the anti’s continue to display daily not only towards the LDS, but the anti’s who also malign other faiths as well.

Once upon a time there were many more loving and gracious souls that dignified these corridors.

[Godzilla]

I have found that Mormons have a lot in common with other Christians. We have the Bible in common,

Doctrinally, mormonism teaches that the 'plain and precious parts' have been taken from the Bible. That is a low view of the Bible and Christians reject the additional scriptures smith added to the bible.

a belief in Jesus Christ’s teachings

Yet reject the core of those teachings about WHO he is and the extent of his sacrifice

his divinity,

Sorry norm, you should know better than to try to claim this in common. In mormonism, Jesus is but one god among a plethora of gods inhabiting the universe. In Christianity, He is the Second Person of the Trinity, one God over all the universe - there being no others.

resurrection,

Apart from the fact of resurrection - lds view it's symbolism in a substantially differnt context than Christians.

Yes, we believe that some of the original teachings of Christ got lost or changed over time (as do protestants — hence the reformation), but that much that was true was preserved.

Come on norm, MUCH that was true was preserved. Not the teachings of your Church -

“Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”—History of the Church, Volume 1, p. XL

Norm - if MUCH was preserved, then the apostasy was not complete.

Finally norm - what PROOF do you have that your prophets are TRUE prophets? Deuteronomy sets some pretty straight forward standards and I fail to see any lds prophet from smith on, meeting those standards.

[MHGinTN]

Yes, Resty, what that ex-Mormon was doing was expose to the light of day the lies deeply ingrained in Momronism! Did you happen to catch what he did for the ‘Church’ before he left the hive? ... His acess to the truth of Mormon History and his position in the heirarchy are important points to note. I realize you don’t want the truth exposed for the public to see, but that is no longer controllable and some of us—the Flying Inmans at FR—are particularly burdened to expose the demonic side of Mormonism. Live with it, Lady. We aren’t going away and the truth about Mormonism isn’t going to disappear and we will continue to post it on these threads and link to sources. As the X-Files used to say, ‘The truth is out there’ and you can bet we will be exposing it for readers to see. Thanks for the bump to the link, BTW. I just wish your posse would take advantage of the truth offered to them and re-evaluate their fidelity to such a deceit-filled religion which is far far from anything Christian.

[greyfoxx39]

all who are on the earth will be obliged to acknowledge His authority.

1. Who do you think will be "on this earth"? How is this decision made?

2. Where are the "covenants" that are described in Taylor's proclamation coming from?

3. WHO "fully instructs" these covenants? Where?

Who is in charge of "enforcing his laws, and commanding that obedience from the nations of the world"?

Taylor makes it plain: "Those who serve him in righteousness will have communications with God, and with Jesus; will have the ministering of angels, and will know the past, the present, and the future"

Three Degrees of Glory

It's obvious that mormons believe they alone will inherit and govern the earth. Christians believe otherwise.

[greyfoxx39]

There was and are a few left on Free Republic that I have been touched by and they have express that the unchristian behavior that the anti’s continue to display daily not only towards the LDS, but the anti’s who also malign other faiths as well.

Some of us feel moved to answer the call echoing down from history to be willing to do battle for Jesus.

ONWARD, CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS

1.	Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war, 
	with the cross of Jesus going on before. 
	Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe; 
	forward into battle see his banners go! 
Refrain: 
	Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war, 
	with the cross of Jesus going on before. 

2.	At the sign of triumph Satan's host doth flee; 
	on then, Christian soldiers, on to victory! 
	Hell's foundations quiver at the shout of praise; 
	brothers, lift your voices, loud your anthems raise. 
	(Refrain) 

3.	Like a mighty army moves the church of God; 
	brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod. 
	We are not divided, all one body we, 
	one in hope and doctrine, one in charity. 
	(Refrain) 

4.	Crowns and thrones may perish, kingdoms rise and wane, 
	but the church of Jesus constant will remain.
	Gates of hell can never gainst that church prevail; 
	we have Christ's own promise, and that cannot fail. 
	(Refrain) 

5.	Onward then, ye people, join our happy throng, 
	blend with ours your voices in the triumph song. 

STAND UP, STAND UP FOR JESUS

1.	Stand up, stand up for Jesus, 
	ye soldiers of the cross;
	lift high his royal banner, 
	it must not suffer loss.
	From victory unto victory 
	his army shall he lead,
	till every foe is vanquished, 
	and Christ is Lord indeed.

2.	Stand up, stand up for Jesus, 
	the trumpet call obey;
	forth to the mighty conflict, 
	in this his glorious day.
	Ye that are brave now serve him 
	against unnumbered foes;
	let courage rise with danger, 
	and strength to strength oppose.

3.	Stand up, stand up for Jesus, 
	stand in his strength alone;
	the arm of flesh will fail you, 
	ye dare not trust your own.
	Put on the gospel armor, 
	each piece put on with prayer;
	where duty calls or danger, 
	be never wanting there.

4.	Stand up, stand up for Jesus, 
	the strife will not be long;
	this day the noise of battle, 
	the next the victor's song.
	To those who vanquish evil 
	a crown of life shall be;
	they with the King of Glory 
	shall reign eternally.

There aren't any "soldiers of the cross mentions in mormon hymnbooks, 
however look at the last verse of this favorite mormon hymn:
 
PRAISE TO THE MAN

 

1844 version

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Chorus:

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Stain Illinois while the earth lauds his fame.

Chorus

 

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Chorus

 

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know "Brother Joseph" again.

Chorus

 

You can see, every day, that some FReepers feel called upon to "Wake up the world for the conflict of justice." for Joseph Smith....I'm awaiting the posting of the lyrics of a musical mormon call to do battle for Jesus.

 

 

[MHGinTN]

Sorry, Norm, your parsing of 'his divinity' is poppycock and I think you know it! Below are a few direct quotes from the founders of your religion. Are there any of these quotes which you disagree with and if so where do you disagree? ... The quotes are far far from Christian conceptualization of God or Jesus, and represent the god of Mormonism and the jesus of Mormonism, but not anything like the God of Judaism/Christianity or the Jesus Who is The Christ, The Word made flesh Who dwelt among us, Who was with God and was God in the beginning:

The Mormon/Smithian concept of the Mormon god:

In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5, 1844)

Smith's worldview of time as it pertains to the gods: Smith believed in a "beginning" that was operative before the Mormon plan to the create this world. The question becomes, who is the head of the Gods as pertains to this ‘council of gods?

In the very beginning the Bible shows there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. It is a great subject I am dwelling on. The word Eloheim ought to be in the plural all the way through--Gods. The heads of the Gods appointed ONE God for us... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372)

“I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man. God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3, 1844)

Whatever is taken by Smith as the ’beginning’, the Alpha point, Smith says god was a man. That he "was once as we are now." We already know from the above quote that the Momron godhead came even after the Mormon god was appointed. The Mormon god was no godhead in the beginning Smith portrays, yet John’s Gospel starts with 'The Word, Jesus, was with God and was God in the beginning.'

“I learned a testimony concerning Abraham, and he reasoned concerning the Gods of heaven. '...Intelligences exist one above another, so that there is no end to them.' If Abraham reasoned thus--If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly. Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it. I want you to pay particular attention to what I am saying. Jesus said that the Father wrought precisely in the same way as His Father had done before Him. As the Father had done before? He laid down His life, and took it up the same as His Father had done before. (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373)

What's being said here? … The teaching of infinite regression of gods! Norm, readers, that is precisely what polytheism is, a belief in multiple gods. Mormons at FR deceitfully parse that to mean they aren't polytheistic because they only 'worship' the current godhead of three gods working in common purpose! But it is clearly polytheism since Smith is claiming that Jesus had a grandpa and great-grandpa!

Finally, Smith claims that God the Father also laid down His life in some sort of redemptive way, to earn/gain exaltation and the attributes of godhood! Which means whatever "time" you want to leave undefined, apparently god the father in Momronism had time enough to live as a man and die as a man for some whole other world, before the Momron god was a god!

Smith says Heavenly Father laid down his life as a redeemer on another world. Brigham Young added that “every earth has its redeemer, and every earth has its tempter”. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 71, 1870)

If there is no ultimate beginning, then there is no ‘Alpha‘, which of course contradicts what God said of Himself as The Alpha and Omega.

"We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father, and so on, from generation to generation, from one heavenly world to another still more ancient, until our minds are wearied and lost in the multiplicity of generations and successive worlds, … and as a last resort, we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten. But why does man seek for a first, when revelation informs him that God's works are without beginning? (Lds apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 132, 1853)

And we will delve into what LDS teach regarding the Mormon jesus next. And to be sure, these 'deeper' precious offerings are not taught to the newly inducted into Mormonism, perhaps because the inductee would run from this heresy immediately, before the spirit is squelched so much as to sear the conscience into drinking the deeper lies such as the man in the above linked video exposes!

[MHGinTN]

And whom is the Mormon jesus, Norm? The Mormon jesus was A polygamist, according to the founders of the Mormon religion! And the sired brother of Satan, according to Mormonism!

"Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee...We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into relation whereby he could see his seed [children] before he was crucified (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 82).

"There was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that non less a person that Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha an the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it." (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 259).

"In the Church councils, it was spoken of: "Joseph F. Smith_ He spoke upon the marriage in Cana of Galilee. He thought Jesus was the bridegroom and Mary and Martha the brides."(Journal of Wilford Woodruff, July 22, 1883).

"The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were Mormons (Jedediah Grant, Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 346).

"One thing is certain, that there were several holy women that great loved Jesus, such as Mary and Martha her sister, and Mary Magdalene; and Jesus greatly loved them and associated with the much; and when he arose from the dead, instead of first showing himself to his chosen witnesses, the Apostles, He appeared first to these women, or at least to one of them--namely, Mary Magdalene. Now, it would be very natural for a husband in the resurrection to appear first to his own dear wives, and afterwards show himself to his other friends. If all the acts of Jesus were written, we no doubt should learn that these beloved women were his wives." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 159).

And is/was the Mormon jesus, God with us? NO! Mormonism teaches the Mormon jesus gained the attributes of godhood and was not therefore God with us prior to the resurrection! And they teach that the Mormon jesus and satan are spirit brothers in the ‘pre-existence’, making the Mormon jesus an equal with not superior to the created angels … of course prior to gaining the attributes of Mormon godhood. [Literally LDS jesus is our elder brother, born to Heavenly Parents in the premortal life. Jesus, Lucifer and humans are all the same species and are brothers and sisters. (LDS Gospel Principles pp. 11, 17, 18)(D&C 93:29; PGP:Bk of Abr 3:21-22; Teachings, pp. 352-354) ]

"We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on, from generation to generation, ... we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten" (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p.132).

“It is readily apparent from these scriptures that there was a war in heaven in which Christ and Satan (Lucifer) fought against each other, and that there were followers of each. Satan was defeated and cast out along with his “angels” or followers. Where were all these followers, and who were they? The answer is that they were us. Christ and Satan and their followers warred in a heaven that pre-existed this earth and mortal existence. All of us lived in this heavenly spiritual realm before we were born with physical bodies on the earth. Christ was begotten of the Father, as were all of us, including Lucifer, who was a Son of the Morning. The title “Son of the Morning” could either signify that Lucifer was one of the earliest born of the spirits, or was illustrious, or both. The name Lucifer means “lightbearer” or “shining one.” Since both Christ and Lucifer were born of the Father, they are brothers in a spiritual sense, as all of us are brothers and sisters in that sense. (LDS teaching regarding Joseph Smith‘s, Pearl of Great Price: Book of Moses 4:1-4)

Now be honest with yourself, Norm: Is that the jesus you expect to return to this Earth? The above quotes expose whom the Mormon jesus is, according to the leadership you must swear to for your temple recommend, so is that the jesus of whom you speak?

[Normandy]

Hi MHG,

You are quoting mainly from early Mormon officials from the Journal of Discourses and other early journals. It sounds like these men were giving their opinions on topics and none of these statements are held as the official doctrine of the LDS Church.

Yes, Jesus was God with Us. He inherited mortality from Mary and immortality from God the Father. Luke records that from a child “Jesus grew in wisdom and in stature, and favour with God and man” (Luke 2:52), indicating that there was progression in Christ’s mortal life from childhood.

[Godzilla]

You are quoting mainly from early Mormon officials from the Journal of Discourses and other early journals. It sounds like these men were giving their opinions on topics and none of these statements are held as the official doctrine of the LDS Church.

Norm - I have to point out to you that -

LDS Gospel Principles pp. 11, 17, 18)(D&C 93:29; PGP:Bk of Abr 3:21-22; Teachings, pp. 352-354 and Book of Moses 4:1-4
Are Official lds scriptures and publication for doctrine. Further norm, in the 2009 edition of "Gospel Principles" we are told that "the inspired words of our living prophets become scripture to us. Their words come to us through conferences, the Liahona or Ensign magazine, and instructions to local priesthood leaders. . JoD and other approved publications fall within those instructions.

[Osage Orange]

Ahhhhh......."additional truth"!!

Excellent.....!!

[MHGinTN]

You are practicing a form of deceit, Norm. Do you really want to tell us that quoting your founding ‘prophet’, JOseph Smith, is only quoting ‘early officials’ and thus you place yourself in a position of denying the very teaching of your ‘prophet’? If all you can do is play deceitful misdirection, it might be more moral for you to just remain mute int he face of such overwhelming proof of the deceitfulness of your religion and the anti-Christian teachings of your founders.

[Normandy]

I’m just explaining that Jesus being married isn’t an official doctrine of the LDS church. This issue came up a few years ago when the Da Vinci Code was published.

Dale Bills, a spokesman for the church said, “The belief that Christ was married has never been official church doctrine. It is neither sanctioned nor taught by the church. While it is true that a few church leaders in the mid-1800s expressed their opinions on the matter, it was not then, and is not now, church doctrine.”

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635208214/LDS-do-not-endorse-claims-in-Da-Vinci.html

[MHGinTN]

And how about the teaching by your 'prophets' on the nature of the god of Mormonism as once being a man and having to 'gain the attributes of godhood'? Or the teaching by your 'prophets' that jesus and Satan are spirit brothers thus demoting Jesus to be the jesus of Mormonism as a created being on par with satan and not God with us?

You're spinning, Norm, spinning for us a 'Mormon undergarment' as it were. And it is becoming rather unseemly.