[Cronos]

I sense a form of paganism inherent which comes in the form of man being able to bring God down from heaven by speaking in a way that controls God's actions.

That is quite a wrong conclusion -- I didn't read that in Quix's post and I don't believe that pentecostals believe that they control God's actions. All he said was that the Holy Spirit for some reason lets us have the free will to choose to let Him in or not.

There must be, at least in the case of an adult, an openness to receive the grace that is freely given by God and the grace is what saves and fills

This is done completely by Christ, the author while you the recipient do nothing but be open and accept the Holy Spirit.

[the_conscience]

I thought you might find some agreement with Quix in this which is why I pinged you.

The Bible speaks of refraining from quenching the Holy Spirit.

But it also speaks of proving all things.

But Quix made some pretty strong statement such as:

Scripture indicates the Spirit is subject to the individual in such matters

and

the individual is still a sovereign individual in terms of his own body and faculties

And Quix didn't just write that one must be open to such but that one should practice making unintelligible sounds to bring on the Holy Spirit.

If the case was made that the Holy Spirit was sovereign in bringing on these signs yet only with the acceptance of the person to whom it was offered that then would nullify any pagan inference. But as I read it, one should practice making these sounds because the HS is obligated to respond, which sounds pagan to me.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

*** I don’t believe that pentecostals believe that they control God’s actions.***

Yet most of the “Name it and claim it” preachers are Penecostals.

[Quix]

Well put.

Very well put.

One often, typically earnestly travails in prayer toward wanting all God has for them . . . and, as Billy Graham has said—we all leak and need a daily refilling of Holy Spirit . . . Holy Spirit is not particularly interested in a greater fullness in a life where stubbornness, selfishness, pride, !!!control!!!! freaque stuff etc. etc. are more in control of the individual than the better parts of the individual is.

Holy Spirit wants a vessel wholly dedicated to The Lord Jesus without selfishness etc. as much as is within the person’s choices to choose at that point. It’s not that HS expects folks to be perfect . . . but their heart attitudes need to be right to mostly right. Lots of the above stuff can get much in the way and Holy Spirit will just wait until such things are more taken care of in repentance, confession, contrition, turning the right way from them.

[Alamo-Girl]

This is done completely by Christ, the author while you the recipient do nothing but be open and accept the Holy Spirit.

Indeed.

Thank you, dear brothers in Christ, for sharing your insights and testimony!