SHOULD A BAPTIST CHURCH EMBRACE PENTECOSTALISM?

PB Ministries ^ | 20-Oct-2010 | Laurence A Justice

[Cronos]

Right now there are churches in almost every country which call themselves Baptists on the sign out front who, nevertheless, arc not Baptists, but in reality are Pentecostal churches.

....Pentecostalism is the belief that the miraculous gifts or signs which the Lord gave to the Apostles and others in the early churches have not ceased, but are still available and are still being exercised by today’s Christians. Pentecostalism claims that God still gives these miraculous gifts to men today. Lists of these gifts can be found in Mark 16:17-18 and 1 Corinthians 12:8-11.

..God’s extraordinary gifts are called this in contrast to those He ordinarily gives in all ages. They are ordinarily not given, but rather were given on extraordinary occasions. These extraordinary gifts were supernatural gifts that enabled their possessors to perform supernatural deeds. Usually when Pentecostals today speak of the gifts or the charismata, they are speaking of these extraordinary gifts, that is, healing, miracles, tongues, direct revelations from God, casting out demons. Pentecostalism teaches that these miraculous gifts, these charismata, are still available to Christians today

[Quix]

INDEED. QUITE SO. QUITE SO.

[Quix]

INDEED.

THX THX.

MOST folks seem to think God doesn’t notice such vast differences in the energy folks devote to sports silliness vs

TO GOD ALMIGHTY.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Did you ever stand up in a sports stadium and raise your hand in the air, or pull your fist at a 90, and holler out for your team?***

No I didn’t as I’m not a sports fan. I guess I am too laid back and non emotional about certain things.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

**** or doing outward signs in church of what *others* think is “proof” of an undead religion.****

You mean you don’t believe in emotional exibitionism? SEE ME! SEE ME! ;-)

[Quix]

So . . .

NOTHING

lights your fire above freezing

EVER? about ANYthing?

[grey_whiskers]

Brothers, let us not take the bait. While there are honest disagreements between Bible-believing Christians, the real disharmony is between those who follow the Scriptures as their only rule of faith and practice and those who think fallible old men in dresses are “another Christ” born of a “co-mediator” who must work for their salvation by their own righteousness.

Democrats?

[grey_whiskers]

Q. Why do Baptists make love lying down?

A. So nobody will think they're dancing.

Cheers!

[Quix]

The ones here dance, now.

as I understand it.

Haven’t observed it yet.

[1000 silverlings]

lol, I believe they call it *getting anointed* by the HS

then all the drama ensues ( I guess, I don't really know what goes on)

Now biblically, lets look at a couple of examples:

When Saul was anointed by the HS to be King of Israel!, he returned home and went on living as before

when David was anointed to be King of Israel, he went on being the servant of Saul and a simple shepherd boy

Since none of us are ever going to be the King of Israel, we can go on doing what we were doing, going to church and reading the bible for starters.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***So . . .

NOTHING

lights your fire above freezing

EVER? about ANYthing?****

When the chains of legalism were broken from me (by a man in Farmington, NM) I was thrilled and told everyone who was interested. I told them in English, no gibberish, very clearly what Christ had done for me, showing them in scripture, No screaming, running, jumping.

I wanted them to plainly understand what had happened, not run them off and say to others I had become a bible thumping fanatic!

This is the way I was shown by the co-worker in Farmington.

I did not wish to be like a neighbor near here who got tangled in Kenneth Hagan’s ministries in Tulsa. He spent a cold night in his van praying to get the devil out of the carburator so the van would run properly. He got so wild he was removed from his teaching position at the local Baptist church.

[Quix]

Sounds like some wisdom.

So, I should log your answer as a

No.?

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

I doubt St Paul would have lasted long in the School of Tyranus if they had preceived him as a wild eyed fanatic.

If you substitute the word “foreign languages” for “unknown tongues” the scriptures become much clearer, but it takes away everyone’s chance to be “noticed” in a penticostal church.

We had a man who turned away from the penticostal movement tell us how some things were done.

If you could not get emotional enough to “speak in tongues” you were coached to say “glory! glory, glory, over and over, fast! Faster! FASTER! as you could. That way you could pass your ramblings off as “tongues”! And ther would sometimes be someone ther to “translate” what you said.

He said there were lots of little kids practicing “glo-rey glo-rey, glo-rey for when they made “the big time”!

[boatbums]

My prayer is that God would lead me and fill me and show me HIS way. I have no interest in MANS knowledge.

That should be all our prayers. I remember the first time I went to a nondenominational church from a Southern Baptist tradition (after I was won to Jesus from Catholicism). There were some members who were very "charismatic" leaning, but the pastor was a by-the-Bible teacher and did not allow them to speak in their "tongues" during the service though many also raised their hands in praise. I was adamant that I was not going to be counted among them since I did not believe that tongues were for today.

It took many months but the more God touched my heart with the worship music the more I understood the desire to raise my hands in worship. The first time I did it, it was only one hand, down low, so people couldn't see. I did not want to draw attention to myself. We would sing

"I stand I stand in awe of you.

I stand I stand in awe of you.

Holy God to whom all praise is due.

I stand in awe of you."

and slowly God showed me how freeing and liberating it was to just lift up my hands to him in adoration and worship. I stopped caring what others might think and I went away feeling so blessed to be able to praise the Lord together with others who loved him as much and more than I did.

We each have to answer to God. We have his word to show us the truth. We have his Holy Spirit to illuminate his words to us and we have each other to share and rejoice in his goodness towards us.

[boatbums]

I’m not at all against emotional demonstrations or acting out one’s excitement or passion for The Lord. I just don’t want any of it to be phoney or for show before man.

I agree completely with that. If it isn't heartfelt adoration of the Lord, it is for the attention of man and they will have their reward, but it won't be from him. How empty it must feel to go home afterwards knowing it was just for show.

[boatbums]

And, usually, I’m rather quiet . . . still . . . with my sound canceling headphones on because of the outrageous amplified volume of the music—104db last Sunday morning. GRRR.

You just gave me a great idea for Mom's Christmas present. She is always complaining of the music being too loud after communion and that she cannot concentrate on her adoration. Freepmail me with what brand you think would be the best.

[John Leland 1789]

The practice (supposed or real) of the sign gifts in any given church proves nothing as to the spirituality of that church.

All of the gifts of 1 Corinthians ch. 12 were being practiced by the Corinthian believers, and yet the church was a CARNAL church, and to such an extent that there were revelations and mysteries that the Apostle could not teach them, because they were too CARNAL to receive them (ch. 3).

There is a rebuke of one error or another of which the Corinthians were guilty in almost every chapter of the book, including the allowance of gross immorality in the church (ch. 5).

Sometimes on the mission field, our folks are lured and deeply impressed by those who claim to be practicing all kinds of gifts. Not trying to deny that what experiences people claim really took place (we allow that EXPERIENCES take place that ARE supernatural in origin), we instruct them to be watchful of certain things:

1. What is actually the core doctrine of the people who claim having had the experiences? How do they identify Jesus Christ and the work of His Spirit from the words of the Scriptures themselves?

2. What is the common life, witness, and testimony (for Christ) of those people when they are not having such experiences?

3. What do they say is the purpose and fruit of those experiences, and can they take you to Scripture to correctly identify them, that doesn't actually break other Scriptures (?), for the Scriptures cannot be broken.

4. Do not assume that people who claim EXPERIENCES are necessarily any less CARNAL than the Corinthian believers were when they practiced the gifts in Corinth in the first century.

5. Are you seeking WISDOM as Gentile believers, or merely seeking SIGNS as the Jewish believers (1 Corinthians 1:22; 14:22). The Nation of Israel was founded upon signs, and therefore they expected signs to prove legitimacy.

We are accustomed to seeing outpourings of the Holy Spirit in the churches among who we fellowship, and we see very unusual things. AND we also recognize that in any meeting there are a certain number of people who attend looking first and foremost to see unusual manifestations, and to the extent that they will accept “WILD FIRE” that can be whipped up by fleshly emotion as being the genuine article.

But one of their problems, which usually shows out to be their error, is that they think the Holy Spirit will always work in an expected manner of which THEY want to see. If they don't see it, they will try to whip it up themselves.

The Holy Spirit is perfectly just as capable of moving in SILENCE, confounding those who are looking for a noise-fest. Those who are genuinely worshiping in Spirit and in Truth will recognize it, and those who are merely looking for a show . . . WON'T (unless they do get right with God in the meeting), and will leave disappointed and even complaining. That's okay, ‘cause they usually don't show up to hinder the next meeting, but go join the fonies instead.

[mountn man]

I know what you mean.

When in worship...I mean REAL WORSHIP...its impossible to keep my hands down.

I was backpacking in Montana about 5-6 years ago. It was a low overcast day. We were climbing over a pass and near the top, and the clouds broke a little and the sun broke through a little. I doubt the clouds were more than 1000-1500' feet above.

When the sun broke through, it was the most physical/emotional experience I can remember. It was like God pulled back the clouds like a blanket just for me.

I instantly started singing How Great Thou Art, with hands raised and tears flowing.

I reached the top and looked over the valley with sunstreams flowing down. AWE INSPIRING.

This is very close to what it looked like

[mountn man]

I was watching a christian tv show a week or two and saw this person on there, Julie True.

The host was doing what I thought was "charismatic" hype and talking about "soaking music".

The moment I heard it, I realized it wasn't "hype".

Check this out, and see if this wouldn't be great music for communion.

Meet Me Here - Julie True

Here is a YouTube search for Julie True

Julie True

Here's a link to a site that has Soaking Music, and tells you about it. I'm not endorsing it. I just found it, looking for someplace that would describe what it is.

Soaking Music

[boatbums]

Just wow! That is a beautiful picture and I can only imagine how it would effect me seeing it in person. When you said you sang "How Great Thou Art" with your hands raised and tears streaming down, I started tearing up myself. Isn't our Lord wonderful that he loves us so much that he will touch our hearts and bless us when we least expect it, but we KNOW it's him!

I remember driving to work one day, praying (eyes open) and telling the Lord how much I loved him. I looked up and in the sky right in my view there was a HEART-SHAPED CLOUD! It was surreal and I know I blinked a few times, but it was there and real and it was for me, God's way of saying "I love you too.".

[mountn man]

Hey Quix, you might like this also.
#98