SHOULD A BAPTIST CHURCH EMBRACE PENTECOSTALISM?

PB Ministries ^ | 20-Oct-2010 | Laurence A Justice

[Cronos]

such as the Hindi

common mistake -- it's HindU. The religion is HindUism which is a meta-religion

One of the two national languages of India is HindI (the other national language is English and of course there are 22 other national-"level" languages like Tamil, Marathi, Andhra, Konkani, Mizo, Odissi etc)

[grey_whiskers]

OK. It's not like I spelled the word as p-o-t-a-t-o-E or anything. ;-D

[grey_whiskers]

that's from a Fr. Brown story, right? The one about the mailman?

That's a different one (The Invisible Man); the one I was thinking of was The Sign of the Broken Sword.

Cheers!

[Cronos]

No :-) it’s just that I heard that one recently from a manager here who was English and I thought at least the English would know the difference!

[Cronos]

re: Montanism

that's a pretty serious statement to make -- what parallels do you find?

[Cronos]

Sigh... in neither case is anyone ordering Christ or the Holy Spirit.

[Cronos]

tc What is the exegetical basis for the claim that Scripture indicates that the Spirit is subject to the individual in such matters and does that exegesis apply the "analogy of faith" rule?

QUix: I've never heard any authentic Spirit-led Pentecostal/charismatic say anything else than that interpretation of that verse

Quix -- you did not mean that the Holy Spirit is subject to the individual, did you? I assumed that you mean that the Holy SPirit for some reason respects the right of a creature to accept or reject the Spirit

[Cronos]

"There was ABSOLUTELY NO WAY I WANTED TO AND NO WAY I'D CONSCIOUSLY DO ANYTHING TO STOP IT " -->

I'm sorry, but this reads to me as if you say that the Holy Spirit took unfettered control

[Cronos]

Could be — however, I return to the story of the Italian woman who preferred England because Italians were too extroverted. She was quite balanced, successful and happy and did enjoy parties and all of that, but not the extremely extroverted type. And this is what turned her away from her nation to a colder nation.

[Cronos]

well, I prefer to give Ruy the benefit of doubt that he did not compare Pentecostal/Charismatic worship to the worship of Hanuman

[Cronos]

They do quote from scripture.

[aruanan]

The book is about as heterodox as you can get. It’s certainly an “other (heteros) gospel that isn’t another (allos) gospel” that Paul was warning about. You’ve got to wonder about the author’s motivation.

[mitch5501]

"However, in one's prayers, I believe that the humility that it fosters and the kind of setting aside of this intellectualizing and over-thinking and mental masturbation manipulating God tendency so many have . . . in their prayers . . . it kind of slices through all that."

Well said brother.

Great thread.Many great comments.

[grey_whiskers]

I think he wants to appear on Oprah /rim shot>

A lot of the book exhibited all the features of what I call "the Oprahization of Christianity" -- a superficial, shallow pop-psych approach to life; a supercilious attitude, coupled with treating God as an equal (no awe -- think of how often angels have to preface their message to people with "do not be afraid!"); and everything about "me, me, me, me, and my feelings about it".

NO cheers, unfortunately.

[Quix]

INDEED:

---

Sigh... in neither case is anyone ordering Christ or the Holy Spirit.

[Quix]

Right.

Throughout Scripture,

GOD ALMIGHTY seeks our INVITATION—our SEEKING HIM—our COOPERATING WITH HIM.

It is demonic forces which strong arm, force themselves, force individuals they are in possession of, etc.

Holy Spirit is entirely otherwise.

IT IS A MUTUAL DANCE.

YES, in a VERY REAL sense, HE LEADS. But if and when the human individual wants to sit down, pause, catch a breath . . . Holy Spirit waits.

Virtually always, He is gentle in a list of ways.

Occasionally, He can be quite forceful and dramatic if the human in the dance is so cooperative and Holy Spirit’s wisdom decrees it.

I really get a kick out of Believers who are characteristically cautious, meek, quiet, etc. and on occasion, Holy Spirit will flow through them with such force that they are suddenly like Richard the Lion Hearted chasing evil spirits or cruddy human stuff for removal with great fierceness and boldness IN THE LORD’s SPIRIT.

Or, vice versa, some brash, bold, cowpie kicking cowboy becomes super gentle in ministering to a child or elderly lady.

Holy Spirit is the ULTIMATE TRANSFORMER yet He respects the personality God created in each individual and seeks to enhance and multiply what God is birthing with each individual.

As Scripture says, it is not yet evident what we shall be. Yet Holy Spirit knows and is working toward that awesome goal in each dance in this boot camp world.

And, as in Scripture’s scribes, the human’s personality involved can show through.

Pentecostals are exceedingly human as TV obviously shows. And sometimes they use intemperate inaccurate language that implies or even says that they were controlled in some heavy handed fashion. And they may personally even feel that was the case in a given situation. It’s just not true. Holy Spirit just doesn’t operate that way.

He LEADS the dance. He’s not the gestapo.

[Quix]

No. Not at all.

This is a very poor and crass analogy but I don’t know of a . . . welll maybe . . . no that would not be adequate.

Recall when you were a teen with a lovely young pretty on the car seat beside you . . .

There were likely moments when the rush of hormones and your less admirable fantasies were rushing you toward one conclusion. You could stop at any point along the way and even reverse course. There were no robotic controls installed and manipulated even, say, by sexual demons [assuming a bit here but with cause, I think! LOL]. But virtually everything in you was not at all interested in stopping.

If one is IN A DANCE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, what idiot would suddenly want to sit down in the middle of the floor and pout?

It’s one of the greatest thrills I know of. It’s much better than orgasm.

Yet one CAN sit down at any point.

[Quix]

There is certainly a continuum on such scales.

[Quix]

Reasonable option.

I glossed over that because it was so offensive to me.

[Quix]

More than quoting, the better bring it alive.

As my AoG teen pastor said—gotta get the hay down outta the loft where the cows can eat and digest it.