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Ten Lies I Told as a Mormon Missionary
Mormonism Research Ministry ^ | Loren Franck

Posted on 11/08/2010 3:37:09 PM PST by delacoert

The Bible predicts a dreadful fate for liars. For instance, while banished on the island of Patmos, the Apostle John saw that "all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Revelation 21:8). Similarly, the beloved disciple writes, liars are doomed to an eternity outside of God's presence (Revelation 22:15). Because Satan is the father of lies (John 8:44), lying is extremely serious sin.

As a full-time Mormon missionary from 1975 to 1977, I lied for the church countless times. Like my colleagues in the South Dakota-Rapid City Mission, which served the Dakotas and adjacent areas, I spoke truthfully about my background, but touted many Mormon teachings that contradict the Bible. After my mission ended, however, I examined these doctrines more closely. The harder I tried to reconcile the contradictions, the more evident they became. So, after extensive prayer and study, I resigned my church membership in 1984. Cheated and betrayed, I lacked spiritual life for the next 17 years. But God, knowing those who are His (John 10:14; 2 Timothy 2:19), drew me to Christ (John 6:44) and saved me in 2001. My spiritual emptiness was replaced by the abundant life only the Savior can give (John 10:10). And now, like millions of Christians worldwide, I have everlasting life through my faith in Him (John 3:36; 6:47).

I can't remember all of my missionary lies. Some were small, others grandiose, but all were false and misleading. Here are ten I'll never forget.

1. We're Not Trying to Convert You 

Of all my lies, this was the most frequent. I learned it well while in Winnipeg, Manitoba, which was my first assignment. A standard door-to-door proselyting pitch began with, "We represent The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." Interrupting, many people said they had their own religion. "Oh, we're not trying to convert you," I responded. "We're sharing a message for all faiths."

But Mormon missionaries have one overriding goal, and that's to bring converts into the church. Clearly, this was the purpose of my mission. I didn't trade the Southern California sunshine for the Dakota snow merely to build interfaith relations. My calling was to teach the church-approved missionary lessons and then baptize the people I taught.

2. The Bible is Insufficient 

According to their eighth Article of Faith, Mormons accept the Bible as the word of God only when it's translated correctly. How convenient for a missionary. When a non-Mormon's interpretation of scripture differed from mine, I frequently blamed faulty Bible translation. And since I believed the Bible was missing "many plain and precious things," as the Book of Mormon claims in 1 Nephi 13:28-29, I urged prospective converts not to trust it completely.

And yet, Mormon proof texts had few translation problems. Throughout my mission, I used only those Bible verses that steered prospects away from their church and toward Mormonism. But what kind of Christian believes that an all-knowing, all-powerful and all-loving God gave mankind an inadequate version of His word. Actually, the Bible is more than sufficient. With its 66 books, 1,189 chapters and nearly 740,000 words, it's the divine road map to eternal life through Jesus Christ.

3. We're the Only True Christians

For decades, the Mormon Church has tried to blend with mainstream Christianity. Accordingly, during my mission a quarter-century ago, I worked hard to convince prospects that Mormons believe in the biblical Jesus. But Paul warned of deceivers who would lure Christians away from "the simplicity that is in Christ." These false teachers preached "another Jesus" and "another gospel" (2 Corinthians 11: 3-4) and were accursed (see Galatians 1:8-9). How interesting that Paul also cautions against false apostles, such as those in the Mormon Church (2 Corinthians 11:13-14).

So which Jesus and gospel do Mormons preach? While a missionary, I taught that Christ was the firstborn spirit child of the Father in a premortal life. (The remainder of humanity was born as spirits later in this "pre-existence.") But I didn't tell prospects this was a literal birth, the result of literal fathering, as Mormon prophets and apostles have claimed. If asked, I taught that the devil was born as one of God's noble spirit sons during the pre-existence, but had rebelled and started a war in heaven.

Consistent with Mormon doctrine, then, Christ and Satan are spirit brothers. But the Bible teaches that Christ is God (Isaiah 7:14; 9:6; John 1:1), that He has always been God (Psalm 90:2), and that He always will be God (Hebrews 13:8). Born into mortality some 2,000 years ago, Jesus is "God... manifest in the flesh" (1 Timothy 3:16). He is far grander and holier than "our Elder Brother," as Mormons dub Him. Jesus and Satan aren't spirit brothers, and true Christians don't believe such blasphemy.

4. We're the Only True Church 

I usually told this lie during the first of seven 30-minute missionary lessons, which presented the Joseph Smith story. According to our script, Smith prayed in 1820 about which church to join. He claimed the Father and Son appeared and told him that all Christian churches of the day were wrong. Smith said he was forbidden to join any of them, that their creeds were abominable and their professors all corrupt. "They draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me," the Lord allegedly added. "They teach for doctrines the commandments of men" (Joseph Smith — History, verse 19). In subsequent lessons, I told prospects that Mormonism is the true church God restored through Smith.

But the Bible says such a restoration was unnecessary. Admittedly, there was partial apostasy after Christ's resurrection, but never a complete falling away. In fact, shortly before His crucifixion, Jesus promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against His church (Matthew 16:18). During my mission, however, I argued that the gates of hell did prevail against Christ's church.

Shortly after renouncing Mormonism, I learned a scriptural death blow to notions of universal apostasy. Addressing Ephesian believers 30 years after the Ascension, the Apostle Paul writes, "Unto [God] be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen" (Ephesians 3:21). God received glory in the Christian church from the time of Paul's writing to the present day, and He will receive such glory throughout all succeeding generations. Therefore, the church must exist from Paul's day throughout eternity. This annihilates Mormon claims of complete apostasy and makes restoration of Christ's church impossible.

5. We Have a Living Prophet 

Whether in wintry Winnipeg or the balmy Black Hills of Rapid City, I criticized Christians because their church lacked a living prophet. Mormons claim the true church must have one. My favorite Bible proof text to back this claim was Amos 3:7, which reads, "Surely, the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

When prospective converts remained skeptical of living prophets, I quoted Ephesians 4:11-14, which apparently requires living apostles and prophets until believers unify in the faith and understand Christ completely. However, writing in the past tense, Paul is actually referring to apostles and prophets of Jesus' day. Otherwise, verse 11 would read that the Lord "is giving" or "will give" apostles and prophets. Of course, God did reveal His will through Old Testament prophets, as Amos 3:7 affirms. But for the last 2,000 years, He has spoken to believers through Christ (Hebrews 1:1-2).

The truth about Mormonism's living prophets is further illuminated in Deuteronomy 18:22. "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord," the scripture reads, "if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." Isaiah 8:20 contains a similar warning: "To the law and the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

False prophets who led ancient Israel astray received the death penalty (Deuteronomy 13:1-5; 18:20), and all who profess to be living prophets should consider the consequences. Mormon prophets might appear grandfatherly and sincere, but they're not God's living oracles. Since the Mormon Church was founded in 1830, its prophets have uttered a striking number of false prophecies. (See chapter 14 of Jerald and Sandra Tanner's "The Changing World of Mormonism.")

6. The Book of Mormon is Scripture 

Joseph Smith claimed that the Book of Mormon is the most correct book on earth, adding that man would become closer to God by following its precepts than by obeying any other book ("History of the Church," Vol. 4, p. 461). Replace "Book of Mormon" with "the Bible" and Smith would have told the truth.

When teaching missionary lessons, I boldly maintained that the Book of Mormon is scripture. I spent myriad hours convincing prospects that it's a sacred record of Christ's activities in the western hemisphere. Yet many Christians I contacted realized the book "borrows" heavily from the Bible and other sources. And in stark contrast to the Old and New Testaments, virtually no archaeological and anthropological evidence supports the Book of Mormon. Why not? Because it's fiction. When Christians want to read scripture, they turn to the Bible.

7. You're Saved By Works 

More than any other Mormon lie, this undermines Christ's atonement, which is the most sacred doctrine of the Bible. Mormons usually equate salvation with resurrection. Likewise, they refer to eternal life as "exaltation." I did both while teaching prospective converts. I relished the church's third Article of Faith, which claims, "through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."

Trying to bridge the doctrinal divide between Mormons and Christians, I emphasized that salvation is by grace "after all we can do" (2 Nephi 25:23). What classic Mormon double-talk. Unmistakably, the Bible says eternal life is a gift from God (Romans 5:15; 6:23) to those who believe in Christ (John 6:47), call upon Him (Romans 10:13) and receive Him as Lord and Savior (John 1:12). Contrary to Mormon dogma, this gift cannot be awarded meritoriously.

Equally clear is that salvation results from God's grace through each believer's faith, not from obeying a checklist of laws and ordinances (Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5). All who confess Christ and believe in Him from the heart shall be saved (Romans 10:8-13).

Most Mormons know little about imputed righteousness — and neither did I during my mission. Essentially, as Christians know, the Lord credits believers with His perfect righteousness and charges their transgressions to His sinless spiritual "account." Paul explains this doctrine masterfully in Romans 4 and 2 Corinthians 5:18-21.

When teaching the Mormon gospel, though, I emphatically denied imputed righteousness, which is the essence of the atonement. I stressed that eternal life is earned by perfect obedience to all gospel laws and ordinances. Yet the Bible says that "there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not" (Ecclesiastes 7:20). As the Psalmist writes: "They are all gone aside. They are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one" (Psalm 14:3; compare Romans 3:10-18).

How many Mormons perfectly obey all gospel laws? None. As the Bible asserts, even the church's current prophet can't keep God's laws thoroughly enough to merit heaven (1 John 1:8). And if he can't, how can anyone else?

8. People Can Become Gods 

Given its explosive nature, this tenet was rarely shared with prospective converts. Missionaries try to entice people into Mormonism gradually, and presenting the doctrine of plural gods is seldom the best way. Several contacts learned the concept from their pastors or read about it on their own, but it was new to most prospects.

"Our Father in heaven loves us so much," I often said, parroting our lesson script, "that He provided a plan [Mormonism] for us to become like him." I didn't mention that Mormon godhood includes spirit procreation throughout eternity. Neither did I hint that the Mormon God was formerly a mortal man, had lived on an earth like ours, and had earned salvation through good works. However, such polytheism strips God of glory and sovereignty. No wonder the Bible condemns it so strongly. When discussing plural gods on my mission, I sidestepped Isaiah 44:8 whenever possible. "Is there a God beside me?" the passage reads. "Yea, there is no God; I know not any." Other verses amply testify that only one God exists in the universe (Deuteronomy 4:35, 39; 6:4; Isaiah 43:10-11; 45:21-23).

When confronted with these scriptures as a missionary, I usually countered with, "Those verses mean we worship only one God, that there's only one God to us." And if that failed, I lied further: "The Bible isn't clear on this subject. Fortunately, the Lord told Joseph Smith that mortals can become gods." Smith might have had a revelation, but not from God.

9. You're Born Again By Becoming a Mormon 

One of my favorite missionary scriptures was John 3:5. "Verily, verily I say unto you," the Savior explains, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." To Mormon missionaries everywhere, being born of water means baptism into the Mormon Church. Birth of the Spirit refers to the gift of the Holy Ghost, allegedly bestowed after baptism.

Unfortunately, during my mission, I didn't know what it means to be born again. I completely misinterpreted Paul's declaration that "if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" (2 Corinthians 5:17; compare Galatians 6:15). According to the Bible, believers in Christ are reborn spiritually as sons and daughters of God (John 1:12; 1 John 3:1-2). They experience a complete Christian conversion of mind and heart. Membership in a church organization might foster social activity and fellowship, but it's not spiritual rebirth.

10. Temple Marriage is Required for Eternal Life 

I participated in well over 100 Mormon temple ceremonies from 1975 to 1982, including my own marriage in 1977. Based heavily on freemasonry, temple rites are the church's most carefully guarded secrets. And "celestial marriage," which supposedly weds men and women eternally, is probably the most important temple ordinance. While a missionary, I frequently told prospects they needed temple marriage to gain eternal life.

Yet the Lord says marriage between men and women is irrelevant to the hereafter. "The children of this age marry, and are given in marriage," He declares. "But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage… for they are equal unto the angels...." (Luke 20:34-36.)

The Bible does teach eternal marriage, but not the Mormon version. The union is between Christ, the Bridegroom, and His collective body of believers, who are the bride (Matthew 25:1-13; John 3:29; Romans 7:4; 2 Corinthians 11:2).

False Testimony

I close with a few words about "testimony," which is a missionary's emergency cord. When I couldn't rebut an antagonistic statement scripturally, I fell back on my testimony. For instance, while proselyting in Grand Forks, North Dakota, I was once asked where the Bible mentions the secret undergarments Mormons wear. Caught off guard, I admitted that the Bible says nothing about them. I could merely testify that God revealed the need for these garments through living prophets. But my testimony wasn't based on scripture or other hard evidence. Rather, it was founded on personal revelation, which is extremely subjective. Essentially, my testimony was nothing more than a good feeling about the church and its teachings. In Mormon parlance, it was a "burning in the bosom." But burning or not, it wasn't from God.

If you're a Christian, I urge you to "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3). That faith, the pathway to heaven, is found only in the biblical Jesus (John 14:6). But if you're a Mormon, it's time to prayerfully re-examine your beliefs. Do you know you have everlasting life? No. Can you obey all the commandments perfectly and earn a place in heaven? You can't.

I regret the many lies I told during my Mormon mission. When I received Christ, though, I confessed them (and my other sins) and received His forgiveness (1 John 1:9; Colossians 1:13-14). "He that heareth my word," Christ assures us, "and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (John 5:24).


TOPICS: Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS: inman; lds; mormon
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To: Elsie

Elsie,

I am not able to describe the means by which the Lord communicates with me through the Spirit. Let me just say that that light and truth from God can be communicated directly to the soul of man and teach eternal truth.

I have been the recipient of that knowledge from heaven, and that is why I am a Latter-day Saint.


361 posted on 11/11/2010 8:08:36 PM PST by Normandy
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To: restornu

All that you can know is that you said something. You cannot know whether another Freeper received what you said as you meant it to be received.


362 posted on 11/11/2010 8:09:25 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: restornu

He is stating his own mind, he is not reading reading yours.


363 posted on 11/11/2010 8:15:58 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: delacoert; sitetest

Wow this is one of the most unkind replies I ever read towards a person who is just expressing their experience just because they don’t totally agree with you.

It is like no one has a right to go against your mindset.

BTW sitetest and I have had many hot and heavy talks years ago on the RF so she is not a dupe!

I appreciate that sitetest does see pros and cons towards the LDS.


364 posted on 11/11/2010 8:42:49 PM PST by restornu
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To: Religion Moderator

sure making fun of some one is not personal nor and accusation if you word it right!


365 posted on 11/11/2010 8:45:24 PM PST by restornu
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To: Normandy
Joseph Smith was a proven diviner and liar, and demons work for the father of lies a murderer from the start. Your testimony is as valid as the girl from whom a demon was cast out. I pray there are no suferous residents who need exorcising.
366 posted on 11/11/2010 8:47:27 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Religion Moderator

Thank you


367 posted on 11/11/2010 8:58:20 PM PST by restornu
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To: restornu; sitetest
BTW sitetest and I have had many hot and heavy talks

TMI!!!

368 posted on 11/11/2010 9:29:23 PM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: sitetest; delacoert; Godzilla; Logophile; Paragon Defender; Alex Murphy
It is possible that at least some Mormons lie about religion. It's even possible that many or most Mormons do so lie. But it cuts against my own personal experience of Mormons.

#1...the MAIN thrust of this thread was not addressing your anecdotal experiences with "all Mormons." 'Twas focusing on Lds missionaries -- and those who lead them...including the Lds branch president in Alaska I highlighted in post #185.

You responded to post #185 in post #198 -- but how interesting of a weaselly evasive response in not addressing the primary evidence on this entire thread that the Lds missionary enterprise is tattered with misleading lies conveyed to the public.

Here, we had an Alaska Lds branch president talking about Lds missionaries in their area -- and he claimed their missionaries went against their entire training & orientation and supposedly had "NO INTEREST" in proselytizing religious people in his town.

Religious people are proselytized by Mormon missionaries the world over. In Central and South America, where nominal RC catholic membership can still be as high as in the 90+% percentile in many cities...they are indeed "religious" -- if not zealous in that religiosity...yet it's never stopped Lds missionaries from proselytizing them.

The Alaska branch prez also apparently didn't clarify -- as he was explaining supposedly why they weren't interested in proseltyzing -- that the "major component" of why those missionaries were there was per Lds missionary rules limited to four hours per week! Even if his interview w/the journalist was "technically" correct (by mentioning elderly Lds missionaries), you can be "technically" correct and still purposely mislead.

- I have never caught a Mormon in a lie. Ever. - No Mormon has ever cheated or stolen from me...I have never regretted doing business with a Mormon. [sitetest]

Wow! You know. Lds members have fleeced over $1.4 billion from fellow Mormons the past few years alone! Guess what? They initially didn't regret "doing business" with them, either!!!
Source: Mormons Now Losing Billions to Affinity Fraud

Now I'm not a Calvinist that you lambasted based upon a few encounters with them...but tell us...do you think Calvinists have launched at least $1.4 billion worth of fraud schemes vs. fellow Calvinists & other Christians the past two years?

Somehow I sense you live a sheltered MSM reading life when it comes to religious-based affinity fraud. (I just hope there's not a malfunction over'site' test @ ground zero goin' on)

Here below are just a baker's dozen articles in a 16 1/2-month span on the "problem" of Lds affinity scams upon fellow Lds victims (March 2009-->early May, 2010)...then the media. If you only have time to click on one article...read the first...be sure to read the comments of FBI special agent Cameron Saxey (who is Lds)...the article mentions how the Utah jurisdictional Securities Fraud Task Force was working on 100+ cases...meaning that $1.4 billion total doesn't tell it all!

BTW...I went to absolutely no major effort or had to do any "days of pouring over" the internet to strain these to the surface. Just about all of them were delivered right into my e-mail lap...meaning I wonder what more I'd find if I really dug deeper!

JOHN L. SMITH: Thieves in the temple: How 'affinity fraud' hurts LDS church members
Source: Las Vegas Review-Journal, Sept. 12, 2010

Local political gadfly arrested for exploiting elderly woman
Source: Provo Daily Herald, May 4, 2010

Preying on the faithful: Though Mormons often victims, LDS church skips fraud-prevention event
Source: Salt Lake Tribune, May 2, 2010

Kaneohe swindler is sentenced
Source: Honolulu Star-Bulletin, April 6, 2010

Investors with troubled firm have Mormon ties
Source: Austin American Statesman, Jan. 16, 2010

Man Who Defrauded Fellow Church Goer Pleads Guilty
Source: www.connect2utah.com (KUTV) Jan. 7, 2010

Lindon Man Accused of Trying to Kill Witnesses to Alleged Scam
Source: MidUtahRadio.com, Nov. 19, 2009

KSL 5 News investigates affinity fraud
Source: KSL.com Nov. 9, 2009

Mormon victims are caught up in $50M scam to sell gold bullion
Salt Lake Tribune, Sept. 18, 2009

LDS Church returned $200K in Southwick Tithing
Source: AP, Sept. 14, 2009

Merriman's church donations may be tained [Momon Ponzi schemer's tithe monies ill-gotten?]
Source: Denver Post, April 24, 2009

Man Who Defrauded Fellow Church Goer Pleads Guilty
Source: Fox News, April 8, 2009

Calif. Man Charged with $40 million Ponzi scheme
Source: AP, March 20, 2009

369 posted on 11/11/2010 9:38:53 PM PST by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] ph<enomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: sitetest; delacoert; Godzilla; Logophile; Paragon Defender
If a practicing Mormon were to tell me that they lie about their religion, that would have credibility to me. [sitetest]

Sitetest...are ya tellin' us ya gotta wait for a Mormon to give you a testimony about everything before you'll believe 'em?

[If so...may I suggest you follow-up on all those fraud cases I sent you in the previous post...look up their testimonies...in their court trials that is...Oh...and one suggestion: If those ponzi schemers do happen to testify in their own defense in any of those trials (yeah, I know, not likely), here's a suggestion: Please don't take those criminal schemers' trial testimony at face value to add to your experiential, anecdotal 100% subjective assertation that you then broadbrush all Mormons with...]

You see...Sitetest...the apostle Paul talked in 1 Cor. 2 how Christians -- if they are spiritual AND are led by the Personal Holy Spirit -- are actually called upon to "judge all things":
14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Cor. 2:14-16)

IOW, Sitetest, we are called to do some fruit-testing...test all things, hold fast to that which is true. Test all spirits as the apostles Paul & John told us. So, I've got such a TEST onSITE for you...(since you elected not to apply your Christian calling of 1 Cor. 2:14-16 as applied to my example in post #185). I'll give you a "second chance."

Please evaluate the two statements below by Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie...and tell us in what ways they are...
...lies or not lies...
...falsehoods and deceptions or truth...
...misstatements or on the mark...
...slanderous or not

Other examples of how Mormon leaders lie:

(1) “…the Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12-13)

I'll even "help you out" on this one Sitetest...since you proclaim yourself an eyewitness expert of Mormon character...please read this above quote -- and then read the following...and tell us if you think this Lds "apostle" was telling the truth or lying when he claimed the "Book of Mormon remains...unchanged..."?

1. CONTENTS. An estimated 17,000+ words (26+ pages) of that material are either verbatim quotations of the Bible, or advance revelations of what would be written later, all in 1611 King James wording....5. GRAMMAR. A check of the 1830 version reveals grammar problems on virtually every page of the book. Over 4,000 changes have been made to the book since that printing (Mormonism, Shadow or Reality, pp. 89-93). Some spelling problems are found, and some word mix-ups as well, such as "mouldering" for molding, "wrecked" for racked, "constrain" for restrain, and "arrested" for wrested. The ONLY parts of the book free from such errors are the parts which parallel the King James Version word for word. Yet it is claimed the book was translated "by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost." The Bible manuscripts, by comparison, were (also) written by some unlearned men (Peter, James, John), yet the grammar and spelling in our oldest manuscripts are of the highest quality.
Source: Facts & Feelings: Evaluating the Book of Mormon

Well, I guess that shows Joseph Smith knew how to "cut & paste" back in his day, too...probably literally...'cause NONE of the over 4,000 changes in today's Book of Mormon vs. the original 1830 Book of Mormon involve the estimated 17,000+ words that "happened" to be both written in King James English and "happened" to be verbatim quotes from the KJV Bible...now what's the odds of that? What's the odds that this book as it was "translated 'by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost" getting 100% of the King James quotations or supposed 'prophetic' quotations right...but messing up over 4,000 times on the rest of the content?

(2) "For instance: The creeds of apostate Christendom teach untruths about God, and the scriptures say that those who accept these creeds 'have inherited lies.' (Jer. 16:16-21.) Those who accept any of the doctrines of the apostate churches are said to 'believe a lie.' (2 Thess. 2:1-12.) The process of apostasy consists in changing 'the truth of God into a lie.'" (LDS "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine p. 440).

Now I can understand if you might want to label this a "different kind" of lie than #1 above...tell us, though...when McConkie labels the creeds of your faith which you have passed on, I'm sure to somebody, as resulting in you "teach[ing] untruths"...is that a..
...true or false statement?
...An accurate or deceptive statement?
...Truth or a lie?
...I mean McConkie claims to have the knowledge power to know these things about YOU! (How does he know YOU & all other Christians?)

McConkie says you have "believed a lie." Is that...
...true or false?
...Accurate or deceptive?
...Truth or a lie?
...I mean McConkie claims to have the knowledge power to know these things about YOU! (How does he know YOU & all other Christians?)

McConkie says your "apostacy consists in changing 'the truth of God into a lie" Is that...
...true or false?
...Accurate or deceptive?
...Truth or a lie?
...I mean McConkie claims to have the knowledge power to know these things about YOU! (How does he know YOU & all other Christians?)

Please let us know if all those questions are just open "up-for-grabs" issues on which even you have trouble weighing in...Thanks!

Ah, the irony of it all: They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie. (2 Thess. 2:10-11)

370 posted on 11/11/2010 9:47:48 PM PST by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] ph<enomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: Colofornian; sitetest; delacoert; Godzilla; Logophile; Paragon Defender; Normandy; killermedic; ...

When you think of of 13 M millions plus members that there are no bad apples is being unrealistic yet that does not stop Colofornian from being unreasonable.

Jesus said he who is without sin cast the first stone.


371 posted on 11/12/2010 3:21:55 AM PST by restornu
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To: Colofornian

Affinity Fraud (prey upon members of identifiable groups such as LDS)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2626006/posts


372 posted on 11/12/2010 3:41:07 AM PST by restornu
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To: restornu
Jesus said he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Be honest here, Resty: If you were on the jury in any of these cases; and you were in the jury deliberation room, is this the verse you would quote to the rest of the jury?

373 posted on 11/12/2010 3:56:21 AM PST by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] ph<enomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: Normandy

“Elsie,

I am not able to describe the means by which the Lord communicates with me through the Spirit. Let me just say that that light and truth from God can be communicated directly to the soul of man and teach eternal truth.

I have been the recipient of that knowledge from heaven, and that is why I am a Latter-day Saint.
...…

Yet you can’t explain how you know it is not a demonic source.

Fail, Normandy. Do you have anything objective that supports your claim?


374 posted on 11/12/2010 4:06:22 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Why would any demon want a person to believe in the reality of Jesus Christ?

Would a demon inspire a person to repent of their sins and follow Jesus?


375 posted on 11/12/2010 4:38:35 AM PST by Normandy
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To: restornu
making it personal and mindreading!

Oh?

Can't I read my OWN mind?

BEsides; to WHOM would it be PERSONAL?

I detected, quite easily, that it was NOT your posting style.

If I phone MICKEY, and get a DONALD DUCK voice on the other end; I KNOW that something is up.

376 posted on 11/12/2010 4:39:47 AM PST by Elsie
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To: Normandy
I am not able to describe the means by which the Lord communicates with me through the Spirit. Let me just say that that light and truth from God can be communicated directly to the soul of man and teach eternal truth. I have been the recipient of that knowledge from heaven, and that is why I am a Latter-day Saint.

Ok; I'll buy that you can't describe the HOW; but SURELY the WHAT is available to tell; right?

377 posted on 11/12/2010 4:41:13 AM PST by Elsie
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To: restornu
If I told you something therefore you know it how is that mindreading!

Would you PLEASE!

Make up your mind!

378 posted on 11/12/2010 4:42:10 AM PST by Elsie
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To: restornu
BTW sitetest and I have had many hot and heavy talks years ago on the RF so she is not a dupe!

While you, OTOH, fit the profile quite nicely.

379 posted on 11/12/2010 4:44:22 AM PST by Elsie
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To: restornu
Wow this is one of the most unkind replies I ever read towards a person who is just expressing their experience just because they don’t totally agree with you.
--StenoSpeak


(?)sure making fun of some one is not personal nor and accusation if you word it right!

--RestySpeak


Resty; Honey!

You are quite a piece of work!

380 posted on 11/12/2010 4:49:02 AM PST by Elsie
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